"0-60 in less than 4.6 seconds"
02-18-14, 08:40 PM
#16
Lexus Test Driver
^
Really how so? - Lexus has been around for many yrs and so has CL. There are ISF owners on this forum as well as many others into Lexus Performance/modding.
Having said that its surprising more members are not excited which could be partly attributed to the initial specs and possible high price.
F brand needs to establish itself against //M, AMG, S/RS plus Cadillac V. It needs to redefine the segment in some way, similar what GTR has done. That means crazy performance for less $$$.
Reliability and nice leather interior will not attract buyers for the target market of F cars.
Really how so? - Lexus has been around for many yrs and so has CL. There are ISF owners on this forum as well as many others into Lexus Performance/modding.
Having said that its surprising more members are not excited which could be partly attributed to the initial specs and possible high price.
F brand needs to establish itself against //M, AMG, S/RS plus Cadillac V. It needs to redefine the segment in some way, similar what GTR has done. That means crazy performance for less $$$.
Reliability and nice leather interior will not attract buyers for the target market of F cars.
02-18-14, 09:28 PM
#17
Please dont compare ISF to E9x M3.
It is more of a hotrod than a completely engineered car like the M3s were. Many experts would agree.
Do you see that this forum is dead???
Go to Bimmerpost to the M section and compare to here - huge difference. Lexus needs to do something BIG if it wants the F brand to be respected.
Introducing an RCF that will be slower, heavier, and more expensive than M4 is not a good start.
Stop defending Lexus - when they are wrong, its ok to call them out. Btw where is that GSf?
I personally like the RCF but i also want to buy a performance car that has a strong enthusiast community - ie //M, AMG, 911, Mustang, etc.
Lexus can get there but their products need to have class leading performance if not in power than in handling. RCF at this point is tuned more for GT rather than sports coupe imo.
It is more of a hotrod than a completely engineered car like the M3s were. Many experts would agree.
Do you see that this forum is dead???
Go to Bimmerpost to the M section and compare to here - huge difference. Lexus needs to do something BIG if it wants the F brand to be respected.
Introducing an RCF that will be slower, heavier, and more expensive than M4 is not a good start.
Stop defending Lexus - when they are wrong, its ok to call them out. Btw where is that GSf?
I personally like the RCF but i also want to buy a performance car that has a strong enthusiast community - ie //M, AMG, 911, Mustang, etc.
Lexus can get there but their products need to have class leading performance if not in power than in handling. RCF at this point is tuned more for GT rather than sports coupe imo.
2012 isf vs 2012 m3, i don't agree. the isf has come a long way and the isf drives well and pretty neck to neck. i can see the progress there. granted i agree it was a lot of patch work here and there mostly because the car wasn't planned since day one, but i think lexus is progressing
02-18-14, 09:51 PM
#18
08 isf vs 08 m3? yes i might agree. it wasn't much of a comparison at all, m3 won hands down
2012 isf vs 2012 m3, i don't agree. the isf has come a long way and the isf drives well and pretty neck to neck. i can see the progress there. granted i agree it was a lot of patch work here and there mostly because the car wasn't planned since day one, but i think lexus is progressing
2012 isf vs 2012 m3, i don't agree. the isf has come a long way and the isf drives well and pretty neck to neck. i can see the progress there. granted i agree it was a lot of patch work here and there mostly because the car wasn't planned since day one, but i think lexus is progressing
02-18-14, 10:43 PM
#19
^
Really how so? - Lexus has been around for many yrs and so has CL. There are ISF owners on this forum as well as many others into Lexus Performance/modding.
Having said that its surprising more members are not excited which could be partly attributed to the initial specs and possible high price.
F brand needs to establish itself against //M, AMG, S/RS plus Cadillac V. It needs to redefine the segment in some way, similar what GTR has done. That means crazy performance for less $$$.
Reliability and nice leather interior will not attract buyers for the target market of F cars.
Really how so? - Lexus has been around for many yrs and so has CL. There are ISF owners on this forum as well as many others into Lexus Performance/modding.
Having said that its surprising more members are not excited which could be partly attributed to the initial specs and possible high price.
F brand needs to establish itself against //M, AMG, S/RS plus Cadillac V. It needs to redefine the segment in some way, similar what GTR has done. That means crazy performance for less $$$.
Reliability and nice leather interior will not attract buyers for the target market of F cars.
02-19-14, 04:02 AM
#20
Pole Position
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: europe
Posts: 366
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It took Audi about 15 years of S and RS models to get some kind of respect in Europe, and they they lost every single comparison against M and AMG the first 10 years, and they still do sometimes.
The major problem is of course the models S and RS were based on. The 2002 Audi A6 ( RS6 ) was a boring and heavy car in every way, not even God could make something fun out of this. Same with the RS4.
Lexus is different. The upcoming F models are all based on very good and balanced chassis.It will take them much less time to really compete with the germans.
The major problem is of course the models S and RS were based on. The 2002 Audi A6 ( RS6 ) was a boring and heavy car in every way, not even God could make something fun out of this. Same with the RS4.
Lexus is different. The upcoming F models are all based on very good and balanced chassis.It will take them much less time to really compete with the germans.
02-19-14, 10:10 AM
#21
Guest
Posts: n/a
Please dont compare ISF to E9x M3.
It is more of a hotrod than a completely engineered car like the M3s were. Many experts would agree.
Do you see that this forum is dead???
Go to Bimmerpost to the M section and compare to here - huge difference. Lexus needs to do something BIG if it wants the F brand to be respected.
Introducing an RCF that will be slower, heavier, and more expensive than M4 is not a good start.
Stop defending Lexus - when they are wrong, its ok to call them out. Btw where is that GSf?
I personally like the RCF but i also want to buy a performance car that has a strong enthusiast community - ie //M, AMG, 911, Mustang, etc.
Lexus can get there but their products need to have class leading performance if not in power than in handling. RCF at this point is tuned more for GT rather than sports coupe imo.
It is more of a hotrod than a completely engineered car like the M3s were. Many experts would agree.
Do you see that this forum is dead???
Go to Bimmerpost to the M section and compare to here - huge difference. Lexus needs to do something BIG if it wants the F brand to be respected.
Introducing an RCF that will be slower, heavier, and more expensive than M4 is not a good start.
Stop defending Lexus - when they are wrong, its ok to call them out. Btw where is that GSf?
I personally like the RCF but i also want to buy a performance car that has a strong enthusiast community - ie //M, AMG, 911, Mustang, etc.
Lexus can get there but their products need to have class leading performance if not in power than in handling. RCF at this point is tuned more for GT rather than sports coupe imo.
The forum is dead? Its a brand new model for crying out loud not to mention this site isn't ran like a BMW site.
Then you ask "where is the GS F" Can you go taunt elsewhere? Again we are not boasting about the LFA as BMW has no answer for it (as you CONVENIENTLY IGNORE).
If this is the level of posts in the RC F forum, it will remain dead. No one wants to see this over and over.
02-19-14, 10:44 AM
#22
Rookie
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: NYC
Posts: 52
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The car won't be out for another 9 months and he's comparing BMW forums to this one to support his blanket statements.
BMW forums have thousands of more posts than my Porsche forum too. Maybe I should sell my Panamera 4 and get M5, lol. What an idiot.
Lexus engineers, marketing, car analysts know infinitely more than us. They know what they need to deliver in this new and highly competitive niche in their line up of cars and I'm rather confident they will deliver rather than be skeptical.
BMW forums have thousands of more posts than my Porsche forum too. Maybe I should sell my Panamera 4 and get M5, lol. What an idiot.
Lexus engineers, marketing, car analysts know infinitely more than us. They know what they need to deliver in this new and highly competitive niche in their line up of cars and I'm rather confident they will deliver rather than be skeptical.
Last edited by rgr555; 02-19-14 at 10:51 AM.
02-19-14, 01:29 PM
#25
Please dont compare ISF to E9x M3.
It is more of a hotrod than a completely engineered car like the M3s were. Many experts would agree.
Do you see that this forum is dead???
Go to Bimmerpost to the M section and compare to here - huge difference. Lexus needs to do something BIG if it wants the F brand to be respected.
Introducing an RCF that will be slower, heavier, and more expensive than M4 is not a good start.
Stop defending Lexus - when they are wrong, its ok to call them out. Btw where is that GSf?
I personally like the RCF but i also want to buy a performance car that has a strong enthusiast community - ie //M, AMG, 911, Mustang, etc.
Lexus can get there but their products need to have class leading performance if not in power than in handling. RCF at this point is tuned more for GT rather than sports coupe imo.
It is more of a hotrod than a completely engineered car like the M3s were. Many experts would agree.
Do you see that this forum is dead???
Go to Bimmerpost to the M section and compare to here - huge difference. Lexus needs to do something BIG if it wants the F brand to be respected.
Introducing an RCF that will be slower, heavier, and more expensive than M4 is not a good start.
Stop defending Lexus - when they are wrong, its ok to call them out. Btw where is that GSf?
I personally like the RCF but i also want to buy a performance car that has a strong enthusiast community - ie //M, AMG, 911, Mustang, etc.
Lexus can get there but their products need to have class leading performance if not in power than in handling. RCF at this point is tuned more for GT rather than sports coupe imo.
You also keep setting unattainable goals - ISF has a nice community and it sold pretty good. How can RC-F start having a community 6 months before it gets sold.
As to RC-F being "more tuned for GT", that makes no sense at all considering that reality is that 3IS and 4GS handle better than F30 and F10. So unless you drove both M4 and RC-F, reality is that quite likely RC-F will drive better than M4. It is actually BMW this time around that has to prove that they still get it, as their latest crop of cars dont.
02-19-14, 02:48 PM
#26
Lexus Test Driver
08 isf vs 08 m3? yes i might agree. it wasn't much of a comparison at all, m3 won hands down
2012 isf vs 2012 m3, i don't agree. the isf has come a long way and the isf drives well and pretty neck to neck. i can see the progress there. granted i agree it was a lot of patch work here and there mostly because the car wasn't planned since day one, but i think lexus is progressing
2012 isf vs 2012 m3, i don't agree. the isf has come a long way and the isf drives well and pretty neck to neck. i can see the progress there. granted i agree it was a lot of patch work here and there mostly because the car wasn't planned since day one, but i think lexus is progressing
I also agree that Lexus is heading in right direction.
RCF is very exciting for Lexus and hopefully will be a start of more F cars. But if performance #s are weaker than its direct competitors, that would not be a good start.
02-19-14, 02:57 PM
#27
Lexus Test Driver
you keep repeating this almost every thread, although most of is not true - for instance price with same equipment. Or this new idea that IS-F was a hack.
You also keep setting unattainable goals - ISF has a nice community and it sold pretty good. How can RC-F start having a community 6 months before it gets sold.
As to RC-F being "more tuned for GT", that makes no sense at all considering that reality is that 3IS and 4GS handle better than F30 and F10. So unless you drove both M4 and RC-F, reality is that quite likely RC-F will drive better than M4. It is actually BMW this time around that has to prove that they still get it, as their latest crop of cars dont.
You also keep setting unattainable goals - ISF has a nice community and it sold pretty good. How can RC-F start having a community 6 months before it gets sold.
As to RC-F being "more tuned for GT", that makes no sense at all considering that reality is that 3IS and 4GS handle better than F30 and F10. So unless you drove both M4 and RC-F, reality is that quite likely RC-F will drive better than M4. It is actually BMW this time around that has to prove that they still get it, as their latest crop of cars dont.
I understand it takes time to establish a brand And enthusiast following but Lexus has a great base of ppl already - just look at this forum.
02-19-14, 03:01 PM
#28
Lexus Test Driver
Don't compare the IS F to the M3? Do you realize how you sound right now to everyone?
The forum is dead? Its a brand new model for crying out loud not to mention this site isn't ran like a BMW site.
Then you ask "where is the GS F" Can you go taunt elsewhere? Again we are not boasting about the LFA as BMW has no answer for it (as you CONVENIENTLY IGNORE).
If this is the level of posts in the RC F forum, it will remain dead. No one wants to see this over and over.
The forum is dead? Its a brand new model for crying out loud not to mention this site isn't ran like a BMW site.
Then you ask "where is the GS F" Can you go taunt elsewhere? Again we are not boasting about the LFA as BMW has no answer for it (as you CONVENIENTLY IGNORE).
If this is the level of posts in the RC F forum, it will remain dead. No one wants to see this over and over.
Lexus has the $$$$, chassis, engineering expertise - all they need is to have the desire to build the GSF. I think its coming but it could of been introduced by now....
02-19-14, 03:03 PM
#29
If RCF was coming with 500hp and estimated to do 0-60 in 3.5sec, that would generate a ton of buzz, which in turn would attract more ppl to post on forum to gain info.
I understand it takes time to establish a brand And enthusiast following but Lexus has a great base of ppl already - just look at this forum.
I understand it takes time to establish a brand And enthusiast following but Lexus has a great base of ppl already - just look at this forum.
02-19-14, 03:08 PM
#30
Lexus Test Driver