Naturally Aspirated Builds - GS400
05-12-17, 05:30 PM
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Naturally Aspirated Builds - GS400
Afternoon everyone,
I am planning to build the 1uz-fe from the ground up with 1uz-fe short block.
How capable is the 1uz-fe to achieving 500 whp without boost ie turbo etc.
I am still figuring out what kind of route I should take to rebuilding the engine.
Any advice is greatly appreciated
I am planning to build the 1uz-fe from the ground up with 1uz-fe short block.
How capable is the 1uz-fe to achieving 500 whp without boost ie turbo etc.
I am still figuring out what kind of route I should take to rebuilding the engine.
Any advice is greatly appreciated
05-12-17, 06:13 PM
#2
theirs not aftermarket support for any of the stuff that matters like stroker cranks to enlarge the displacement or larger camshafts with larger duration or lobe separation angles. plus the factory ecu cannot be persuaded. force induction it or go ls swap. But!!! now would be the time to install forged pistons and connecting rods, arp head studs, and slightly lower compression to prepare it for forced induction later. once thats done, you can throw crazy boost at it but be ready for transmission swap and fuel system upgrades. the money pit never stops.
05-12-17, 07:46 PM
#3
Bad is right, it's just not the right engine to build remaining NA
I had a long talk with a gentleman from Kelford cams. It would be around $2,000 shipped to send them the cams you took from the engine, and regrind them. Shims for the buckets would be needed as well so add another crazy amount of time doing the R&D for that measuring the thicknesses and clearances with feeler gauges and still possibly getting it wrong
Headers are around $400-$800, exhaust is $200-600 depending how you do it, intake is more money and a recommended item is the Supra TT/Aristo LSD which is around $1000. Apexi Neo is around $200 and recommended Boomslang harness, if you can find one, would be another $200. More things would be valve body mods, and torque converter
There was talk about using the 2UZFE 4.7L blocks with 1UZFE heads, intake plenums, but the 2UZFE blocks are iron and heavy. You'd have to buy the engine just to take out the block so maybe around $600-1500 I'm not sure. Getting stronger rods, pistons, etc. are more things which IIRC aren't really offered for the 1UZFE with VVTi
So after spending maybe $5,000-$7,000 and almost countless hours sorting out the bugs, you might get 310-320 rwhp. If you somehow got raised compression, from 10:5:1 to 11:5:1 or higher, you might get more along with raising the redline and would probably struggle with pre-detonation. Keep in mind this is still not a 4.5L F136FL flat plane crank Ferrari engine from the 458 that revs out to 9,000 RPM with direct injection, dry sump, and 12:5:1 compression. By then you could have gone forced induction where a setup with an intercooler can get you 320 to 380 rwhp. Which is still only 470 crank HP
I just bought a procharger after doing everything possible with the bolt-ons, trans, and a little more.
500 rwhp is gunna be around 600 crank HP. You'd have to go turbo for that, whether it be 1UZFE, or probably a better option for aftermarker stuff would be the 2JZGTE
Maybe saving up for a pre-built car with a single turbo 1JZGTE or 2JZGTE would be better for some people as well
I had a long talk with a gentleman from Kelford cams. It would be around $2,000 shipped to send them the cams you took from the engine, and regrind them. Shims for the buckets would be needed as well so add another crazy amount of time doing the R&D for that measuring the thicknesses and clearances with feeler gauges and still possibly getting it wrong
Headers are around $400-$800, exhaust is $200-600 depending how you do it, intake is more money and a recommended item is the Supra TT/Aristo LSD which is around $1000. Apexi Neo is around $200 and recommended Boomslang harness, if you can find one, would be another $200. More things would be valve body mods, and torque converter
There was talk about using the 2UZFE 4.7L blocks with 1UZFE heads, intake plenums, but the 2UZFE blocks are iron and heavy. You'd have to buy the engine just to take out the block so maybe around $600-1500 I'm not sure. Getting stronger rods, pistons, etc. are more things which IIRC aren't really offered for the 1UZFE with VVTi
So after spending maybe $5,000-$7,000 and almost countless hours sorting out the bugs, you might get 310-320 rwhp. If you somehow got raised compression, from 10:5:1 to 11:5:1 or higher, you might get more along with raising the redline and would probably struggle with pre-detonation. Keep in mind this is still not a 4.5L F136FL flat plane crank Ferrari engine from the 458 that revs out to 9,000 RPM with direct injection, dry sump, and 12:5:1 compression. By then you could have gone forced induction where a setup with an intercooler can get you 320 to 380 rwhp. Which is still only 470 crank HP
I just bought a procharger after doing everything possible with the bolt-ons, trans, and a little more.
500 rwhp is gunna be around 600 crank HP. You'd have to go turbo for that, whether it be 1UZFE, or probably a better option for aftermarker stuff would be the 2JZGTE
Maybe saving up for a pre-built car with a single turbo 1JZGTE or 2JZGTE would be better for some people as well
Last edited by GS400V8; 05-12-17 at 07:49 PM.
05-14-17, 08:23 AM
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Bad is right, it's just not the right engine to build remaining NA
I had a long talk with a gentleman from Kelford cams. It would be around $2,000 shipped to send them the cams you took from the engine, and regrind them. Shims for the buckets would be needed as well so add another crazy amount of time doing the R&D for that measuring the thicknesses and clearances with feeler gauges and still possibly getting it wrong
Headers are around $400-$800, exhaust is $200-600 depending how you do it, intake is more money and a recommended item is the Supra TT/Aristo LSD which is around $1000. Apexi Neo is around $200 and recommended Boomslang harness, if you can find one, would be another $200. More things would be valve body mods, and torque converter
There was talk about using the 2UZFE 4.7L blocks with 1UZFE heads, intake plenums, but the 2UZFE blocks are iron and heavy. You'd have to buy the engine just to take out the block so maybe around $600-1500 I'm not sure. Getting stronger rods, pistons, etc. are more things which IIRC aren't really offered for the 1UZFE with VVTi
So after spending maybe $5,000-$7,000 and almost countless hours sorting out the bugs, you might get 310-320 rwhp. If you somehow got raised compression, from 10:5:1 to 11:5:1 or higher, you might get more along with raising the redline and would probably struggle with pre-detonation. Keep in mind this is still not a 4.5L F136FL flat plane crank Ferrari engine from the 458 that revs out to 9,000 RPM with direct injection, dry sump, and 12:5:1 compression. By then you could have gone forced induction where a setup with an intercooler can get you 320 to 380 rwhp. Which is still only 470 crank HP
I just bought a procharger after doing everything possible with the bolt-ons, trans, and a little more.
500 rwhp is gunna be around 600 crank HP. You'd have to go turbo for that, whether it be 1UZFE, or probably a better option for aftermarker stuff would be the 2JZGTE
Maybe saving up for a pre-built car with a single turbo 1JZGTE or 2JZGTE would be better for some people as well
I had a long talk with a gentleman from Kelford cams. It would be around $2,000 shipped to send them the cams you took from the engine, and regrind them. Shims for the buckets would be needed as well so add another crazy amount of time doing the R&D for that measuring the thicknesses and clearances with feeler gauges and still possibly getting it wrong
Headers are around $400-$800, exhaust is $200-600 depending how you do it, intake is more money and a recommended item is the Supra TT/Aristo LSD which is around $1000. Apexi Neo is around $200 and recommended Boomslang harness, if you can find one, would be another $200. More things would be valve body mods, and torque converter
There was talk about using the 2UZFE 4.7L blocks with 1UZFE heads, intake plenums, but the 2UZFE blocks are iron and heavy. You'd have to buy the engine just to take out the block so maybe around $600-1500 I'm not sure. Getting stronger rods, pistons, etc. are more things which IIRC aren't really offered for the 1UZFE with VVTi
So after spending maybe $5,000-$7,000 and almost countless hours sorting out the bugs, you might get 310-320 rwhp. If you somehow got raised compression, from 10:5:1 to 11:5:1 or higher, you might get more along with raising the redline and would probably struggle with pre-detonation. Keep in mind this is still not a 4.5L F136FL flat plane crank Ferrari engine from the 458 that revs out to 9,000 RPM with direct injection, dry sump, and 12:5:1 compression. By then you could have gone forced induction where a setup with an intercooler can get you 320 to 380 rwhp. Which is still only 470 crank HP
I just bought a procharger after doing everything possible with the bolt-ons, trans, and a little more.
500 rwhp is gunna be around 600 crank HP. You'd have to go turbo for that, whether it be 1UZFE, or probably a better option for aftermarker stuff would be the 2JZGTE
Maybe saving up for a pre-built car with a single turbo 1JZGTE or 2JZGTE would be better for some people as well
In theory, I would want to turbo the 1uz-fe and call it a day.
I wanted an engine to fit right back into place that can bolt onto everything when going back in.
Which engine can drop into a gs400 with ease or slight modification?
05-14-17, 08:24 PM
#6
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Anything like 100 hp per liter is difficult and expensive, which is 400. 500 is new territory, there is no known do-this-and-it-always-works shopping list.
A front-mount, belt drive blower is a better fit than turbo plumbing, you can keep your exhaust. The larger Eaton Ford and GM M90, M112, etc. have been used but the top mount means hood clearance problems and a complex adapter to match the ports, or an expert modifying your manifold.
The obvious fit is any LSX engine with the strongest TH400 or PG (4L80E etc. if you need O/D) you can afford but it may be too big and require tunnel mods, driveshaft, cross member.
There is no easy swap except to go back to an L6 and use the Aristo/JDM GTE package. Typically they are low mileage engines which don't need work so you're ahead many $$$ right there.
My recipe for 520 crank HP:
2JZ-GTE stock TT engine
AEM Tru-Boost control @ 15 psi
Apexi afc NEO A/F management
550 Supra injectors
Walbro 255 pump
HKS 264 mini cams
Vibrant 3" exhaust
big FMIC
A front-mount, belt drive blower is a better fit than turbo plumbing, you can keep your exhaust. The larger Eaton Ford and GM M90, M112, etc. have been used but the top mount means hood clearance problems and a complex adapter to match the ports, or an expert modifying your manifold.
The obvious fit is any LSX engine with the strongest TH400 or PG (4L80E etc. if you need O/D) you can afford but it may be too big and require tunnel mods, driveshaft, cross member.
There is no easy swap except to go back to an L6 and use the Aristo/JDM GTE package. Typically they are low mileage engines which don't need work so you're ahead many $$$ right there.
My recipe for 520 crank HP:
2JZ-GTE stock TT engine
AEM Tru-Boost control @ 15 psi
Apexi afc NEO A/F management
550 Supra injectors
Walbro 255 pump
HKS 264 mini cams
Vibrant 3" exhaust
big FMIC
What would be your recipe for a 1uz-fe v8 engine?
I am mainly a fan of v8 engines and wanted to expand on the brilliant design of the 1uz-fe.
My friend and I are planning to rebuild the engine with a kit.
Will changing out any of the internals be beneficial for the engine?
05-15-17, 08:17 PM
#7
A friend of mine once said "it's not about how fast you go, it's how you go fast." GS400V8's transmission mods prove that point, I think.
My ideal setup would be headers and a CD009 manual transmission. That'd gain ~20 hp, significantly reduce the drivetrain loss and give you some lower gear ratios to play with, plus you can shift it a lot faster and minimize downtime of power delivery.
My ideal setup would be headers and a CD009 manual transmission. That'd gain ~20 hp, significantly reduce the drivetrain loss and give you some lower gear ratios to play with, plus you can shift it a lot faster and minimize downtime of power delivery.
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05-15-17, 10:11 PM
#8
Thanks bad!
V8emjay- I have my procharger sitting in my room, first I have to wait for a few things in order to install it.
My transmission mods, they help, but this isn't a light car at 3600-3800lbs. I decided to go forced induction because 350 crank HP just doesn't get me excited like it used too after doing everything I could NA
As far as a turbo V8, Badblackgs had a single turbo setup on his 3UZFE for a while, and is now supercharged.
IIRC, he was making some awesome numbers with the turbo, but I believe at that high of boost, you start to struggle with detonation issues/fuel control.
With that high of a compression ratio, it is bound to happen with any engine. If you have a large intercooler and run super rich, it will minimize it, but you won't reach those power levels, so it's a catch-22. The V8 just isn't the right motor for above 500hp because of it's high compression and detonation with boost. Big displacement and modern 5.0L DOHC engines can be closer to this power range even naturally aspirated because of their size, aggressive cam profiles, and great cam phasing
Oh, and larger fuel injectors for the 1UZFE-VVTi are next to impossible to find, and if you do, they are expensive. One half of the engine (passenger side?) has longer fuel injectors than the other bank so you can't drop in most larger CC injectors
I think beside the aforementioned problems, you will probably have to swap to a stronger transmission, battle with detonation (compression ratio) and finding a way to precisely control all that fuel that needs to get to it
The Aristo (GS) in Japan had a 2JZGTE motor in it, so while it still needs some things moved around, it is the closest thing to a direct drop in and probably the easiest way to get a reliable 600HP once you single turbo it.
V8emjay- I have my procharger sitting in my room, first I have to wait for a few things in order to install it.
My transmission mods, they help, but this isn't a light car at 3600-3800lbs. I decided to go forced induction because 350 crank HP just doesn't get me excited like it used too after doing everything I could NA
As far as a turbo V8, Badblackgs had a single turbo setup on his 3UZFE for a while, and is now supercharged.
IIRC, he was making some awesome numbers with the turbo, but I believe at that high of boost, you start to struggle with detonation issues/fuel control.
With that high of a compression ratio, it is bound to happen with any engine. If you have a large intercooler and run super rich, it will minimize it, but you won't reach those power levels, so it's a catch-22. The V8 just isn't the right motor for above 500hp because of it's high compression and detonation with boost. Big displacement and modern 5.0L DOHC engines can be closer to this power range even naturally aspirated because of their size, aggressive cam profiles, and great cam phasing
Oh, and larger fuel injectors for the 1UZFE-VVTi are next to impossible to find, and if you do, they are expensive. One half of the engine (passenger side?) has longer fuel injectors than the other bank so you can't drop in most larger CC injectors
I think beside the aforementioned problems, you will probably have to swap to a stronger transmission, battle with detonation (compression ratio) and finding a way to precisely control all that fuel that needs to get to it
The Aristo (GS) in Japan had a 2JZGTE motor in it, so while it still needs some things moved around, it is the closest thing to a direct drop in and probably the easiest way to get a reliable 600HP once you single turbo it.
Last edited by GS400V8; 05-15-17 at 10:27 PM.
05-16-17, 04:42 AM
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A friend of mine once said "it's not about how fast you go, it's how you go fast." GS400V8's transmission mods prove that point, I think.
My ideal setup would be headers and a CD009 manual transmission. That'd gain ~20 hp, significantly reduce the drivetrain loss and give you some lower gear ratios to play with, plus you can shift it a lot faster and minimize downtime of power delivery.
My ideal setup would be headers and a CD009 manual transmission. That'd gain ~20 hp, significantly reduce the drivetrain loss and give you some lower gear ratios to play with, plus you can shift it a lot faster and minimize downtime of power delivery.
I have ppe headers for the car already. Does anyone have thoughts on a stroker kit to increase displacement?
By all means, I do not like going 100mph down the freeway all day long.
05-16-17, 05:33 AM
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Anything like 100 hp per liter is difficult and expensive, which is 400. 500 is new territory, there is no known do-this-and-it-always-works shopping list.
A front-mount, belt drive blower is a better fit than turbo plumbing, you can keep your exhaust. The larger Eaton Ford and GM M90, M112, etc. have been used but the top mount means hood clearance problems and a complex adapter to match the ports, or an expert modifying your manifold.
The obvious fit is any LSX engine with the strongest TH400 or PG (4L80E etc. if you need O/D) you can afford but it may be too big and require tunnel mods, driveshaft, cross member.
There is no easy swap except to go back to an L6 and use the Aristo/JDM GTE package. Typically they are low mileage engines which don't need work so you're ahead many $$$ right there.
My recipe for 520 crank HP:
2JZ-GTE stock TT engine
AEM Tru-Boost control @ 15 psi
Apexi afc NEO A/F management
550 Supra injectors
Walbro 255 pump
HKS 264 mini cams
Vibrant 3" exhaust
big FMIC
A front-mount, belt drive blower is a better fit than turbo plumbing, you can keep your exhaust. The larger Eaton Ford and GM M90, M112, etc. have been used but the top mount means hood clearance problems and a complex adapter to match the ports, or an expert modifying your manifold.
The obvious fit is any LSX engine with the strongest TH400 or PG (4L80E etc. if you need O/D) you can afford but it may be too big and require tunnel mods, driveshaft, cross member.
There is no easy swap except to go back to an L6 and use the Aristo/JDM GTE package. Typically they are low mileage engines which don't need work so you're ahead many $$$ right there.
My recipe for 520 crank HP:
2JZ-GTE stock TT engine
AEM Tru-Boost control @ 15 psi
Apexi afc NEO A/F management
550 Supra injectors
Walbro 255 pump
HKS 264 mini cams
Vibrant 3" exhaust
big FMIC
I responded to that and asked if you have a recipe for the 1uz-fe.
I am certain that building engines is not cheap, I am aware the money that goes behind this route.
05-16-17, 07:30 AM
#11
If you're going to spend that kind of money, you may as well just buy a car that's designed to go that fast from the factory.
I could drop $20,000 on mods to get the 1UZ up to almost 500 crank HP, or I could drop $20,000 on a used IS-F and redo the intake/exhaust/ECU and have almost 500 crank HP. At least I know the IS-F wouldn't blow up.
I could drop $20,000 on mods to get the 1UZ up to almost 500 crank HP, or I could drop $20,000 on a used IS-F and redo the intake/exhaust/ECU and have almost 500 crank HP. At least I know the IS-F wouldn't blow up.
05-16-17, 07:56 AM
#12
Eicca is right. Also, I answered your turbo V8 questions very accurately above
In my first post I mentioned a stroke kit, which would probably only be possible using the 2UZFE 4.7L truck block with 1UZFE heads. Again, assuming this works, and you do everything you can to this motor in my first post, you will still probably only be at 320 rear wheel horse power or 400 crank.
In my first post I mentioned a stroke kit, which would probably only be possible using the 2UZFE 4.7L truck block with 1UZFE heads. Again, assuming this works, and you do everything you can to this motor in my first post, you will still probably only be at 320 rear wheel horse power or 400 crank.
Last edited by GS400V8; 05-16-17 at 08:00 AM.
05-17-17, 05:22 AM
#13
Here you go, this is what you're looking for. Track these guys down from 9 years ago and have them build you a $15-20k motor.
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/clu...-to-order.html
I'm not commenting in this thread anymore but you aren't listening. There was a guy on here with a twin turbo 4.0 that made I want to say 565 rwhp with a V160 trans. The car was immaculate. After a number of years, he took the motor out (nothing was wrong with it) and switched to a 700+ rwhp 2JZ setup. He said the car felt better with the 2JZ. I know you have a car that paid off and all and want it to be faster like a new one but you don't have a LS based motor. You're picking the absolute worst route for 500 hp at the crank (but then again you said 500 whp which is even more unattainable).
best = single or BPU 2JZ
not optimal = supercharged v8
worst = NA V8 (stroker, even higher compression, or higher revving)
You have a $3-5k car. No one has a bunch of stroker kits sitting on the shelf waiting for you to purchase them. If you want to spend 15k to do what a 4k BPU setup does then by all means go ahead.
Some dude in the classified section has a supercharger setup for sale right now. It only made 330 whp at 5 psi according to him. Good luck on your quest for 500 whp naturally aspirated.
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/clu...-to-order.html
I'm not commenting in this thread anymore but you aren't listening. There was a guy on here with a twin turbo 4.0 that made I want to say 565 rwhp with a V160 trans. The car was immaculate. After a number of years, he took the motor out (nothing was wrong with it) and switched to a 700+ rwhp 2JZ setup. He said the car felt better with the 2JZ. I know you have a car that paid off and all and want it to be faster like a new one but you don't have a LS based motor. You're picking the absolute worst route for 500 hp at the crank (but then again you said 500 whp which is even more unattainable).
best = single or BPU 2JZ
not optimal = supercharged v8
worst = NA V8 (stroker, even higher compression, or higher revving)
You have a $3-5k car. No one has a bunch of stroker kits sitting on the shelf waiting for you to purchase them. If you want to spend 15k to do what a 4k BPU setup does then by all means go ahead.
Some dude in the classified section has a supercharger setup for sale right now. It only made 330 whp at 5 psi according to him. Good luck on your quest for 500 whp naturally aspirated.
Last edited by tiger4life; 05-17-17 at 12:37 PM.
03-11-22, 06:43 AM
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Its just not worth going the n/a route. I've had experience with many variance of the 1uz including the 1uz vvti. Currently working on a nitrous built sleeper. Without any supporting mods was able to run a 100 shot safely. And run a consitant 13.4 1/4 mile time. Since then, I've upgraded my fuel system with a 450lph walboro fuel pump, 750cc injectors (I did have to find an adapter to get them to work), a 1 step colder plug,, and a 110/93 octane mix (60%/40% approximately) and ran up to a 225 shot of nitrous. Working on the tuning as at a 225 shot the engine leaned out. This was in my 98 gs400.
