Rear Turbo.
11-25-13, 12:33 PM
#16
Do it.
May want to look into a standalone oiling system mounted in the spare tire well...
Look in to an AEM FIC8 or comparable piggy-back.
Food for thought:
If you were to run two disco potatoes (Garrett GT28RS) @ 7 psi they would put out about 225 cfm (each). Reducing the piping from 2.5" to 2" would increase the air's velocity by roughly 56%. You could probably use a relatively small I/C core as well to help minimize pressure drop. Small turbo's, not a lot of boost and lots of piping to help dissipate heat doesn't warrant a huge drag intercooler. Responsive with a great torque curve.
Also, consider proper crankcase ventilation. Your motor will thank you.
May want to look into a standalone oiling system mounted in the spare tire well...
Look in to an AEM FIC8 or comparable piggy-back.
Food for thought:
If you were to run two disco potatoes (Garrett GT28RS) @ 7 psi they would put out about 225 cfm (each). Reducing the piping from 2.5" to 2" would increase the air's velocity by roughly 56%. You could probably use a relatively small I/C core as well to help minimize pressure drop. Small turbo's, not a lot of boost and lots of piping to help dissipate heat doesn't warrant a huge drag intercooler. Responsive with a great torque curve.
Also, consider proper crankcase ventilation. Your motor will thank you.
11-25-13, 02:26 PM
#17
Twins. Small. 7 lb WG Springs. No need for a manual boost controller. You will spool EARLY and OFTEN.
I never ran piping but it would have been 2.5" aluminum (or even 2.25") from the FMIC to the compressors. Its a long length of pipe to tuck but easily done.
Again, my gripe came when it came to the orientation of the turbos in the stock muffler spaces. No matter which way I clocked the hot or cold side piping was coming in at a sharp angle and you could "see" it under the car...which means I could scrape it with how low my car is and where I drive. No thanks, too big of a risk.
All in all its a simple proven concept that works on numerous platforms. I do love the sound of baby turbos spooling and open dump tube WGs warm my heart as well!
I never ran piping but it would have been 2.5" aluminum (or even 2.25") from the FMIC to the compressors. Its a long length of pipe to tuck but easily done.
Again, my gripe came when it came to the orientation of the turbos in the stock muffler spaces. No matter which way I clocked the hot or cold side piping was coming in at a sharp angle and you could "see" it under the car...which means I could scrape it with how low my car is and where I drive. No thanks, too big of a risk.
All in all its a simple proven concept that works on numerous platforms. I do love the sound of baby turbos spooling and open dump tube WGs warm my heart as well!
11-25-13, 05:40 PM
#19
Find out the turbo model specifics (ultimately you'll want the measurements of the exducers and inducers) and then look for the turbo compressor maps on Garrett's website to see what efficiency it pulls.
While there read up on everything you can get your hands on; knowledge is power!
While there read up on everything you can get your hands on; knowledge is power!
11-25-13, 05:51 PM
#20
Find out the turbo model specifics (ultimately you'll want the measurements of the exducers and inducers) and then look for the turbo compressor maps on Garrett's website to see what efficiency it pulls.
While there read up on everything you can get your hands on; knowledge is power!
While there read up on everything you can get your hands on; knowledge is power!
I am probably going to go with a single TO4E, for a while. Going to be doing something like this:
I will probably start mocking up tubing and welding up as soon as I receive the turbo. I also need suggestions on W/G's I was thinking a TiAL 44mm with a 6 or 7 PSI spring.
I also need a external oil pump (Don't know where to find these), I am also going to make a separate oil tank (because using oil from my motor is sketchy).
Hopefully I can have all this done by the end of December or beginning of Jan.
Last edited by Nsteezyy; 11-25-13 at 07:55 PM.
11-26-13, 07:25 AM
#21
http://www.rbracing-rsr.com/oilsystems.htm good read.
http://www.turbowerx.com/Scavenge_Pu.../Exa-Pump.html
Or something else to look in to...
http://compturbo.com/spotlights/oil-less
http://www.turbowerx.com/Scavenge_Pu.../Exa-Pump.html
Or something else to look in to...
http://compturbo.com/spotlights/oil-less
Last edited by SH4DY; 11-26-13 at 07:55 AM.
11-26-13, 11:28 AM
#22
It wont be ANYTHING like that because we don't have any space except where the 2 mufflers reside! I'm trying to tell you the space is more limited than you think....Don't take my word for it, get under your car with a TO4e and tell me where youre going to put it. 
Aside from that, theres some good advice in this thread
Just a glance at the old (now destroyed) Fox Marketing ISF and you'll see how busy things get. Hope you like bottoming out turbo. LOL
http://www.tunemytoyota.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4407
Aside from that, theres some good advice in this thread
Just a glance at the old (now destroyed) Fox Marketing ISF and you'll see how busy things get. Hope you like bottoming out turbo. LOL
http://www.tunemytoyota.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4407
It was a 55 Trim. What about TD04's Those are quite small, as well as k04s.
Thanks will take a look at this when i get the chance... So much work...
I am probably going to go with a single TO4E, for a while. Going to be doing something like this:
I will probably start mocking up tubing and welding up as soon as I receive the turbo. I also need suggestions on W/G's I was thinking a TiAL 44mm with a 6 or 7 PSI spring.
I also need a external oil pump (Don't know where to find these), I am also going to make a separate oil tank (because using oil from my motor is sketchy).
Hopefully I can have all this done by the end of December or beginning of Jan.
Thanks will take a look at this when i get the chance... So much work...
I am probably going to go with a single TO4E, for a while. Going to be doing something like this:
I will probably start mocking up tubing and welding up as soon as I receive the turbo. I also need suggestions on W/G's I was thinking a TiAL 44mm with a 6 or 7 PSI spring.
I also need a external oil pump (Don't know where to find these), I am also going to make a separate oil tank (because using oil from my motor is sketchy).
Hopefully I can have all this done by the end of December or beginning of Jan.
Last edited by mikellucci; 11-26-13 at 11:34 AM.
11-26-13, 04:17 PM
#23
It wont be ANYTHING like that because we don't have any space except where the 2 mufflers reside! I'm trying to tell you the space is more limited than you think....Don't take my word for it, get under your car with a TO4e and tell me where youre going to put it.
Aside from that, theres some good advice in this thread
Just a glance at the old (now destroyed) Fox Marketing ISF and you'll see how busy things get. Hope you like bottoming out turbo. LOL
http://www.tunemytoyota.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4407
Aside from that, theres some good advice in this thread
Just a glance at the old (now destroyed) Fox Marketing ISF and you'll see how busy things get. Hope you like bottoming out turbo. LOL
http://www.tunemytoyota.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4407
11-26-13, 05:57 PM
#24
You're p*ssing in the wind if you only go with a single T25.
I think you might need to take a step back and think about your goals and not just what you think will fit.
Like I mentioned earlier, twin Garrett GT28RS w/ .86 AR (or comparable SR20DET variant depending on your budget) both running 5 psi at the turbo should result in a net of 7-8 psi at the motor with pretty instant response.
You may say "well I can run 8psi on my single T25" and that's very true but that won't flow nearly as much air as a dual GT28 or a single GT30R at comparable boost pressure.
CFM is what you're after if you want power....
I realize none of you know who I am or my background so let me offer this glimpse:
(the fun starts at 1:00)
I tuned this car using Diablosport CMR software, designed the fuel system (which was elaborate enough to get a 4 page write-up in Mopar Enthusiast), set up the meth injection, and did 90% of the installation of everything on the car.
Sadly, this isn't my day-to-day anymore as I've got a "normal" job but I still dabble...
I think you might need to take a step back and think about your goals and not just what you think will fit.
Like I mentioned earlier, twin Garrett GT28RS w/ .86 AR (or comparable SR20DET variant depending on your budget) both running 5 psi at the turbo should result in a net of 7-8 psi at the motor with pretty instant response.
You may say "well I can run 8psi on my single T25" and that's very true but that won't flow nearly as much air as a dual GT28 or a single GT30R at comparable boost pressure.
CFM is what you're after if you want power....
I realize none of you know who I am or my background so let me offer this glimpse:
I tuned this car using Diablosport CMR software, designed the fuel system (which was elaborate enough to get a 4 page write-up in Mopar Enthusiast), set up the meth injection, and did 90% of the installation of everything on the car.
Sadly, this isn't my day-to-day anymore as I've got a "normal" job but I still dabble...
Last edited by SH4DY; 11-26-13 at 06:00 PM.
11-26-13, 07:22 PM
#25
You're p*ssing in the wind if you only go with a single T25.
I think you might need to take a step back and think about your goals and not just what you think will fit.
Like I mentioned earlier, twin Garrett GT28RS w/ .86 AR (or comparable SR20DET variant depending on your budget) both running 5 psi at the turbo should result in a net of 7-8 psi at the motor with pretty instant response.
You may say "well I can run 8psi on my single T25" and that's very true but that won't flow nearly as much air as a dual GT28 or a single GT30R at comparable boost pressure.
CFM is what you're after if you want power....
I realize none of you know who I am or my background so let me offer this glimpse:
MM_Hemi - YouTube (the fun starts at 1:00)
I tuned this car using Diablosport CMR software, designed the fuel system (which was elaborate enough to get a 4 page write-up in Mopar Enthusiast), set up the meth injection, and did 90% of the installation of everything on the car.
Sadly, this isn't my day-to-day anymore as I've got a "normal" job but I still dabble...
I think you might need to take a step back and think about your goals and not just what you think will fit.
Like I mentioned earlier, twin Garrett GT28RS w/ .86 AR (or comparable SR20DET variant depending on your budget) both running 5 psi at the turbo should result in a net of 7-8 psi at the motor with pretty instant response.
You may say "well I can run 8psi on my single T25" and that's very true but that won't flow nearly as much air as a dual GT28 or a single GT30R at comparable boost pressure.
CFM is what you're after if you want power....
I realize none of you know who I am or my background so let me offer this glimpse:
MM_Hemi - YouTube (the fun starts at 1:00)
I tuned this car using Diablosport CMR software, designed the fuel system (which was elaborate enough to get a 4 page write-up in Mopar Enthusiast), set up the meth injection, and did 90% of the installation of everything on the car.
Sadly, this isn't my day-to-day anymore as I've got a "normal" job but I still dabble...
11-27-13, 09:14 AM
#26
First, I'd say let's look at the entire scope of the project and get the basics covered.
Is this a daily driver, can you get good (92+) gas, what are your goals (noise, power) and maybe most importantly how heavy is your right foot?
Engine management is a must IMO for a turbo set-up. An AEM FIC8 can be found for ~$500 and could very well be the difference between your motor lasting or not.
The guys that are running meth injection and nothing else with superchargers are taking a serious risk. That's a band-aid approach that doesn't work as well with turbos because the boost pressure isn't linear, is more prone to fluctuate with ambient temperature and is overall harder for the stock ECU to "learn". Timing induced detonation/knock typically kills a motor much faster than running slightly lean and counting on the stock ECU to be reactive and pull timing when knocking instead of proactively pulling timing is scary to me.
Having not taken the time yet to get under the car to measure or do the math to properly size a turbo I can't say you should get X turbo.
But speaking generally: With the low levels of boost we can get away with, and the compression of these motors, I wouldn't be afraid to run a GT35R (62.5mm) if it would fit (maybe even a 40R?). 8-10 psi is right at the bottom of it's (Garrett's) peak efficiency range which means you're getting the most power available per lb of boost for that turbo. Going with the middle road .82 AR should help maintain flow up top, but again, I still need to do the math to validate all this.
I keep using Garrett as an example because information on their turbos is readily available but you could use Borgwarner/Bullseye, Precision, Turbonetics, even Holset. Just remember when looking at eBay there is a reason some turbo's are $200 and others $1k+.
I'll do some digging over the holiday and let you know.
Is this a daily driver, can you get good (92+) gas, what are your goals (noise, power) and maybe most importantly how heavy is your right foot?
Engine management is a must IMO for a turbo set-up. An AEM FIC8 can be found for ~$500 and could very well be the difference between your motor lasting or not.
The guys that are running meth injection and nothing else with superchargers are taking a serious risk. That's a band-aid approach that doesn't work as well with turbos because the boost pressure isn't linear, is more prone to fluctuate with ambient temperature and is overall harder for the stock ECU to "learn". Timing induced detonation/knock typically kills a motor much faster than running slightly lean and counting on the stock ECU to be reactive and pull timing when knocking instead of proactively pulling timing is scary to me.
Having not taken the time yet to get under the car to measure or do the math to properly size a turbo I can't say you should get X turbo.
But speaking generally: With the low levels of boost we can get away with, and the compression of these motors, I wouldn't be afraid to run a GT35R (62.5mm) if it would fit (maybe even a 40R?). 8-10 psi is right at the bottom of it's (Garrett's) peak efficiency range which means you're getting the most power available per lb of boost for that turbo. Going with the middle road .82 AR should help maintain flow up top, but again, I still need to do the math to validate all this.
I keep using Garrett as an example because information on their turbos is readily available but you could use Borgwarner/Bullseye, Precision, Turbonetics, even Holset. Just remember when looking at eBay there is a reason some turbo's are $200 and others $1k+.
I'll do some digging over the holiday and let you know.
11-27-13, 10:49 AM
#27
First, I'd say let's look at the entire scope of the project and get the basics covered.
Is this a daily driver, can you get good (92+) gas, what are your goals (noise, power) and maybe most importantly how heavy is your right foot?
Engine management is a must IMO for a turbo set-up. An AEM FIC8 can be found for ~$500 and could very well be the difference between your motor lasting or not.
The guys that are running meth injection and nothing else with superchargers are taking a serious risk. That's a band-aid approach that doesn't work as well with turbos because the boost pressure isn't linear, is more prone to fluctuate with ambient temperature and is overall harder for the stock ECU to "learn". Timing induced detonation/knock typically kills a motor much faster than running slightly lean and counting on the stock ECU to be reactive and pull timing when knocking instead of proactively pulling timing is scary to me.
Having not taken the time yet to get under the car to measure or do the math to properly size a turbo I can't say you should get X turbo.
But speaking generally: With the low levels of boost we can get away with, and the compression of these motors, I wouldn't be afraid to run a GT35R (62.5mm) if it would fit (maybe even a 40R?). 8-10 psi is right at the bottom of it's (Garrett's) peak efficiency range which means you're getting the most power available per lb of boost for that turbo. Going with the middle road .82 AR should help maintain flow up top, but again, I still need to do the math to validate all this.
I keep using Garrett as an example because information on their turbos is readily available but you could use Borgwarner/Bullseye, Precision, Turbonetics, even Holset. Just remember when looking at eBay there is a reason some turbo's are $200 and others $1k+.
I'll do some digging over the holiday and let you know.
Is this a daily driver, can you get good (92+) gas, what are your goals (noise, power) and maybe most importantly how heavy is your right foot?
Engine management is a must IMO for a turbo set-up. An AEM FIC8 can be found for ~$500 and could very well be the difference between your motor lasting or not.
The guys that are running meth injection and nothing else with superchargers are taking a serious risk. That's a band-aid approach that doesn't work as well with turbos because the boost pressure isn't linear, is more prone to fluctuate with ambient temperature and is overall harder for the stock ECU to "learn". Timing induced detonation/knock typically kills a motor much faster than running slightly lean and counting on the stock ECU to be reactive and pull timing when knocking instead of proactively pulling timing is scary to me.
Having not taken the time yet to get under the car to measure or do the math to properly size a turbo I can't say you should get X turbo.
But speaking generally: With the low levels of boost we can get away with, and the compression of these motors, I wouldn't be afraid to run a GT35R (62.5mm) if it would fit (maybe even a 40R?). 8-10 psi is right at the bottom of it's (Garrett's) peak efficiency range which means you're getting the most power available per lb of boost for that turbo. Going with the middle road .82 AR should help maintain flow up top, but again, I still need to do the math to validate all this.
I keep using Garrett as an example because information on their turbos is readily available but you could use Borgwarner/Bullseye, Precision, Turbonetics, even Holset. Just remember when looking at eBay there is a reason some turbo's are $200 and others $1k+.
I'll do some digging over the holiday and let you know.
I will definitely use the FIC8 on the build. I will probably get under the car and take some measurements of where I'm gonna place it. I'm definitely gonna try to get a good turbo.
Thanks for the help! Much appreciated! And when this build is finish I'll thank you a million more times!
Last edited by Nsteezyy; 11-27-13 at 10:55 AM.
11-27-13, 12:52 PM
#28
I have little to no turbo experience with V6s, but have a TON with 4-cylinders. You want to make sure that your turbo isn't too small (like SH4DY said) OR too big with no useable powerband. Personally, if you're unable to afford a twin setup you might as well not do it. Setups like this aren't exactly cheap, and if you're going to budget your way through this project, you're going to run into issues. Example, my $5k turbo build turned into $10k, just to get things done the right way the first time and running perfectly.
11-27-13, 01:41 PM
#29
I have little to no turbo experience with V6s, but have a TON with 4-cylinders. You want to make sure that your turbo isn't too small (like SH4DY said) OR too big with no useable powerband. Personally, if you're unable to afford a twin setup you might as well not do it. Setups like this aren't exactly cheap, and if you're going to budget your way through this project, you're going to run into issues. Example, my $5k turbo build turned into $10k, just to get things done the right way the first time and running perfectly.