building and boost vs jdm aristo tt swap
08-14-12, 06:46 AM
#1
building and boost vs jdm aristo tt swap
hey guys i have been up and down the road deciding on what will be better and ever since i have own my gs i had plans to do the jdm aristo swap after my paint and body is done with and now that it is done, i am ready to take the next step to make some little play power but lately ive been thinking would it be as much or maybe cheaper to just rebuild my motor with some forge internals? and go single turbo setup (keep in mind my motor has 190k so im rebuilding even though some say to just boost it, i want that fresh new motor feeling) overall on the jdm aristo swap with extra needed parts and labor through a friend is $1000 i was looking at $4000 completed so would it be reliable for daily driving and cheaper or as much to do the rebuild? and maybe have more power then that stock jdm swap? thanks guys i really need opinions/answers on this so that i can really look into it more
08-14-12, 07:23 AM
#2
You could always just take the internals from the GTE and swap them into the GE motor. Thats what alot of guys do/did including myself. To be honest there is no big difference between the ge block and gte block besides oil squirters. You could use your ge block install the gte hg, internals and some arp headstuds and your set. If you were to get a gte jdm swap you would still have to open up the motor to check the internals and see how the engine was treated so you might as well just keep your stock motor.
08-15-12, 06:05 PM
#4
You could always just take the internals from the GTE and swap them into the GE motor. Thats what alot of guys do/did including myself. To be honest there is no big difference between the ge block and gte block besides oil squirters. You could use your ge block install the gte hg, internals and some arp headstuds and your set. If you were to get a gte jdm swap you would still have to open up the motor to check the internals and see how the engine was treated so you might as well just keep your stock motor.
08-15-12, 08:12 PM
#5
They are important yes. But do ppl really swap gte in for the squirters or know the difference between the ge motors and gte? There are plenty of ppl with high numbers on the ge without oil squirters. To the OP. There is plenty of turbo apps for the VVti motors. which shop did you hear this from?
08-16-12, 06:04 AM
#6
gte & na-t
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who cares about oil squirters? I rather have would rather have oil going to the bearings than squirting on the bottoms of the pistons.
OPJust do a gte swap, it will make you life easier .If you are not doing the machine work and engine assembly yourself , it will cost you more rebuilding you old engine than doing a gte swap.
gl with the project.
OPJust do a gte swap, it will make you life easier .If you are not doing the machine work and engine assembly yourself , it will cost you more rebuilding you old engine than doing a gte swap.
gl with the project.
08-16-12, 06:49 AM
#7
who cares about oil squirters? I rather have would rather have oil going to the bearings than squirting on the bottoms of the pistons.
OPJust do a gte swap, it will make you life easier .If you are not doing the machine work and engine assembly yourself , it will cost you more rebuilding you old engine than doing a gte swap.
gl with the project.
OPJust do a gte swap, it will make you life easier .If you are not doing the machine work and engine assembly yourself , it will cost you more rebuilding you old engine than doing a gte swap.
gl with the project.
On JZ's, oiling to the bearings is not an issue. Most of the time guys don't do their oil clearances right, and thats where bearing problems start. The whole "flow to bearings" excuse is getting old. With 6 bar of oil pressure on full load, I don't think there is a "flow" problem at all.
The squirters play an important role of cooling the pistons. This is important when you're building an engine that's going to take abuse in a street / daily driven car. I don't know about you guys, but when I build an engine, it runs flawlessly for YEARS in my customers cars.
Do you think Toyota engineers would have done it this way if it had a negative effect on anything?
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08-16-12, 07:01 AM
#8
Me personally if i was to go with a JDM Motor i would open the motor up. I mean it has been sitting for however long and you dont know the history of it. Ive seen and heard to many horror stories of ppl getting JDM motors doing the swap and then find out that the motor is no good. Im not here to downplay any motor just giving my 2cents lol. . Good luck to the OP and make sure you do alot of research. Going boost is going to get expensive It all comes down to your power goals and what your plans are.
08-16-12, 07:23 AM
#9
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On JZ's, oiling to the bearings is not an issue. Most of the time guys don't do their oil clearances right, and thats where bearing problems start. The whole "flow to bearings" excuse is getting old. With 6 bar of oil pressure on full load, I don't think there is a "flow" problem at all.
The squirters play an important role of cooling the pistons. This is important when you're building an engine that's going to take abuse in a street / daily driven car. I don't know about you guys, but when I build an engine, it runs flawlessly for YEARS in my customers cars.
Do you think Toyota engineers would have done it this way if it had a negative effect on anything?
The squirters play an important role of cooling the pistons. This is important when you're building an engine that's going to take abuse in a street / daily driven car. I don't know about you guys, but when I build an engine, it runs flawlessly for YEARS in my customers cars.
Do you think Toyota engineers would have done it this way if it had a negative effect on anything?
Me personally if i was to go with a JDM Motor i would open the motor up. I mean it has been sitting for however long and you dont know the history of it. Ive seen and heard to many horror stories of ppl getting JDM motors doing the swap and then find out that the motor is no good. Im not here to downplay any motor just giving my 2cents lol. . Good luck to the OP and make sure you do alot of research. Going boost is going to get expensive It all comes down to your power goals and what your plans are.
make sure it's not sludged up and you good to go..
08-16-12, 09:11 PM
#10
Hopefully we didnt scare the OP away hahah,. As Quick said if you get a newer one or even an old one do a compression test or a leak down test to see how healthy the motor is. You also have to think about who is going to tune your car. I would speak to that person or shop and see what ems/piggyback they are good at with tuning on the 2jz motor and go from there. It would suck to get a ems/piggyback and you cant find about in your area to tune it.
08-17-12, 06:14 AM
#11
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I hope not!
There are 2 guys in TX that i know run ge blocks , no oil squirters for years , alot of TX mile runs and drage racing. both of them making around 1500rwhp give or take.
One of them is PM Supra (Chris Johnson) and the other is SuprWhp (Stephen ) he makes exactly 1498 rwhp all boost on gt55-33r.
There are 2 guys in TX that i know run ge blocks , no oil squirters for years , alot of TX mile runs and drage racing. both of them making around 1500rwhp give or take.
One of them is PM Supra (Chris Johnson) and the other is SuprWhp (Stephen ) he makes exactly 1498 rwhp all boost on gt55-33r.
08-17-12, 06:39 AM
#12
I don't need to convince you. I build engines (for actual race cars) and tune cars for a living lol. Think I care about if a hobbyist disagrees with me?
Just giving you proper information. If you have too much of an attitude to see another perspective, that's your issue.
08-17-12, 06:32 PM
#13
I hope not!
There are 2 guys in TX that i know run ge blocks , no oil squirters for years , alot of TX mile runs and drage racing. both of them making around 1500rwhp give or take.
One of them is PM Supra (Chris Johnson) and the other is SuprWhp (Stephen ) he makes exactly 1498 rwhp all boost on gt55-33r.
There are 2 guys in TX that i know run ge blocks , no oil squirters for years , alot of TX mile runs and drage racing. both of them making around 1500rwhp give or take.
One of them is PM Supra (Chris Johnson) and the other is SuprWhp (Stephen ) he makes exactly 1498 rwhp all boost on gt55-33r.
08-17-12, 07:44 PM
#14
gte & na-t
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^^^ That's correct !
I have never seen anyone running a ge and having issues because they drive it hard on the street w/o the "oil squirters in the ge blocks".
I daily my car, not that i have to but I want to 22psi everyday atleast 150miles a day so far 8-9k miles in the past couple months.
People just talk and no data to back it up..
Some said , you can't make power on stock ge cams, some make fun of you because you like High compression setups *Oh this is not a civic*, some say you can't make good power on stock fuel rail..False information my car made 700whp @24 psi on 66mm Turbo , I looked all over the CL and SF trying to find a gte that made that power or even close to that on the same turbo and supporting mods ..i found none.
I had over 7 different setups in the past 5years from gte to na-t.
if you have a 98+ GS i would all recommend you going Aristo swap because it will make your life easier , if you just wanna ride 300-400whp.
the vvti ge is really not a good starting point because it will break sooner or later we all know that.
I have never seen anyone running a ge and having issues because they drive it hard on the street w/o the "oil squirters in the ge blocks".
I daily my car, not that i have to but I want to 22psi everyday atleast 150miles a day so far 8-9k miles in the past couple months.
People just talk and no data to back it up..
Some said , you can't make power on stock ge cams, some make fun of you because you like High compression setups *Oh this is not a civic*, some say you can't make good power on stock fuel rail..False information my car made 700whp @24 psi on 66mm Turbo , I looked all over the CL and SF trying to find a gte that made that power or even close to that on the same turbo and supporting mods ..i found none.
I had over 7 different setups in the past 5years from gte to na-t.
if you have a 98+ GS i would all recommend you going Aristo swap because it will make your life easier , if you just wanna ride 300-400whp.
the vvti ge is really not a good starting point because it will break sooner or later we all know that.
08-18-12, 12:03 AM
#15
Jeff's dynosheets read over 700ft.lbs of torque run to run...he claims the hp is correct, but the torque is not accurate (hp is a derivative of torque).....seems legit. Claimed 1000+RWHP on his previous GTE build, in reality the car made 585whp....also seems legit.
Not only do the oil squirters cool the pistons, but they also help with wrist pin lubrication. Real endurance or rally race cars all use oil squirters because there are several advantages. There is plenty of proof to back it up. Actual engine builders know this, even our head machinist (who use to work for Mclaren, and Banks) also swears by oil squirters. If you're losing flow through the bearings at high rpm, upgrade the pump, or run thicker oil. I have yet to have someone prove that....especially when most guys are running their JZ's at super high RPM. None of my built engines have ever had an issue, and these are cars that are running time attack, rally, and drag, while still being used as a daily driver. Some of them have 5+ years on the same engines.
I was considering removing the oil squirters on one of our rally cars that has a JDM EJ20 engine. We had bought Mahle Motorsport pistons, and they didn't clear the factory squirters. I called Mahle tech and asked for their opinion.....they told me to notch the webbing off the pistons vs. removing the oil squirters.
Toyota put them in the GTE engines for good reason.
Actual Automotive / Motorsport Engineers > Forum Hobbyists
Not only do the oil squirters cool the pistons, but they also help with wrist pin lubrication. Real endurance or rally race cars all use oil squirters because there are several advantages. There is plenty of proof to back it up. Actual engine builders know this, even our head machinist (who use to work for Mclaren, and Banks) also swears by oil squirters. If you're losing flow through the bearings at high rpm, upgrade the pump, or run thicker oil. I have yet to have someone prove that....especially when most guys are running their JZ's at super high RPM. None of my built engines have ever had an issue, and these are cars that are running time attack, rally, and drag, while still being used as a daily driver. Some of them have 5+ years on the same engines.
I was considering removing the oil squirters on one of our rally cars that has a JDM EJ20 engine. We had bought Mahle Motorsport pistons, and they didn't clear the factory squirters. I called Mahle tech and asked for their opinion.....they told me to notch the webbing off the pistons vs. removing the oil squirters.
Toyota put them in the GTE engines for good reason.
Actual Automotive / Motorsport Engineers > Forum Hobbyists