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-   -   Meth injection usage on a stock IS350? (http://www.clublexus.com/forums/performance/619096-meth-injection-usage-on-a-stock-is350.html)

Gville350 02-18-12 07:25 PM

Meth injection usage on a stock IS350?
 
While watching Horsepower TV on the Powerblock this morning they had an entire episode dedicated to Snow Performance meth injection. While they showed 33hp gain on an N/A 574 Chevy big block, it shines on F/I setups...like the supercharged 2010 Camaro they had on the show. Made 45ish more whp over the baseline.

Would such a kit be at all beneficial on our high compression V6s in their stock form? Discuss.

es808 02-19-12 12:18 PM

I think it would. If I remember correctly, meth injection works the same as a NOS injection. Since it cools the air intake charge when injected and atomized, the oxygen content is increased. This in return provides more power.

The 2 engines in the show were a 1) large displacement engine and 2) a supercharged engine. In these 2 cases, you would see higher gains from cooling the intake charge simply because they are combusting a huge mass of air all the time. For the "smaller" Toyota V6 (215 cubic inches as compared to the Chevy 574 cubic inches), we probably wouldn't see as high a gain as those but we would see some HP improvement.

In the end, are the $$ worth the maybe 15 or so HP gains from the kit? Probably not since the NOS can provide much more at a relatively inexpensive price.

mikellucci 08-31-12 12:39 PM

Interested in looking into this a bit further? Coolingmist has their Progressive CMGS kit on sale right now from 500 down to 300. It would be worth every penny for the benefits water/meth provides even if the HP gain on our engines is 10whp or similar. Jus sayin ;)

*Edit- I just bought one...they have 4 remaining. :thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:
:D

Gville350 08-31-12 02:26 PM

^LOL! That price is tempting, but I just bought new tires. I've blown the monthly car-spending budget already. :)

Report back and let us know how that kit works out with the car!

es808 09-07-12 10:24 PM

Yes Mike. Let us know how it goes. I'm interested in how this works out.

That price is tempting but I too spent my monthly allowance on a front strut bar. :)

Gville350 09-08-12 10:39 AM

Monthly car-mod allowances...gotta love them! LOL

Gville350 10-09-12 11:57 AM

Mike, you ever get that meth kit? Had a chance to hook it up to the new intake design?

mikellucci 10-09-12 12:19 PM

Hey, yes I installed the the progressive controller and everything is running. Havent done more then one WOT run but in that one the car ate it up with rock solid A/F. I activated at -3.3 with full spray coming on at -1.0 vacuum. Havent measured IATs or done basically anything outside of that...too damn busy ATM. :/ Winter is fast approaching...sucks!

I'll try to get more details and share at the end of this week!

Lil4cyl 10-09-12 01:58 PM

If meth injection increases oxygen intake into the engine, would you not also have to add fuel to keep from running lean?

Gville350 10-09-12 06:13 PM

^That's something that the stock systems I'm sure is still able to keep up with. After all, its only meth injection. If you can boost these motors, I'm sure its adequate enough to adjust for it. Mike will gladly share with us the details I'm sure.

Mike, thanks for being a pioneer/guinea pig for us all! LOL

mikellucci 10-10-12 05:54 AM

100% Methanol is a high octane fuel, close to 113 octane. I dont know anyone that uses pure meth injection as it is highly corrosive, toxic, flammable and also boils (turns to steam) near 150 degrees F! The benefits come from using a 50/50 mix of methanol and water.

Methanol/water injection is simply an effective means of cooling the air charge but also effectively increases fuel octane in the combustion process. Unlike nitrous oxide or forced induction itself, doesn't add more oxygen to the charge, but by its low evaporation point changes from a liquid to a gas as its introduced into the air charge.

The evaporation process uses the heat from the intake charge to complete the phase change. Due to the lower intake temperatures and denser air charge more power is exerted from the engine.

The huge safety point using injection on this car is the stock ECU. By now, most of us know how amazing the stock ecu is...It will not only effectively utilize the spray but it will also adjust accordingly should an issue occur such as pump failure or no spray. We are not "hard tuned" like anyone using a standalone ECU or aftermarket tuner effectively relying on the spray (running super adv timing, more boost, etc.). Our ECU is a living breathing brain constantly working and accounting for realtime in the moment conditions.


Cliff Notes - cools air intake charge, serves as octane boost - ecu will advance timing; create more power!

mikellucci 10-10-12 06:01 AM

If you guys can still get this kit for $299 on sale (over $500 normal) I would buy it. Put it on the shelf until you're ready to use it... I'm a big proponent of injection so maybe I'm biased. I've used meth on many of my cars with nothing but positive results. On my old STi I squeezed an extra 3psi out of a simple Stg.2 setup and gained 30whp with LOWER EGTs. Granted, they were all forced induction, the NA form of our cars has potential and will surely benefit from the usage. I will prove it out and have numbers "eventually." :)

Kurtz 10-10-12 06:20 AM

AFAIK the ECU has no idea what octane fuel you're using... all it knows is if it's knocking or not.

So if you're not knocking on 91 (and shouldn't be) I can't imagine why "higher" octane would do anything for you at all.


Cooler intake charge sure, but you're not going to get anything from the octane boost unless the car is knocking on pump gas, which it shouldn't be...

mikellucci 10-10-12 06:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kurtz (Post 7533335)
Cooler intake charge sure, but you're not going to get anything from the octane boost unless the car is knocking on pump gas, which it shouldn't be...

We shall see! :p :thumbup: :ohyeah:

jgbackes 10-10-12 10:55 PM

In the old days, the MAF was a heated nichrome wire. The air passing over it cooled the wire and the ECU could compute the amount of air being delivered past the throttle body (TB).

If you put the meth/water (MW) injector in front of the MAF, will it notice that there is more/cooler air going past? One of the photos I saw put the injector after the MAF and before the TB. What's the best location?


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