Meth injection usage on a stock IS350?
10-11-12, 04:59 AM
#16
In the old days, the MAF was a heated nichrome wire. The air passing over it cooled the wire and the ECU could compute the amount of air being delivered past the throttle body (TB).
If you put the meth/water (MW) injector in front of the MAF, will it notice that there is more/cooler air going past? One of the photos I saw put the injector after the MAF and before the TB. What's the best location?
If you put the meth/water (MW) injector in front of the MAF, will it notice that there is more/cooler air going past? One of the photos I saw put the injector after the MAF and before the TB. What's the best location?
If you have suggestions I'd love to hear them!
10-11-12, 06:52 AM
#17
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Also another note/question... The statement about meth not adding more oxygen to the intake charge... cooling the air in effect makes it more dense. Cooler denser air has more oxygen content. Its the same reason cars perform better in cold air vs hot air.. cooler denser air introduces more oxygen to the charge, and ecu compensates with more fuel. But I assume the ecu can only compensate so much without tuning, and could possibly run into a lean situation.
10-11-12, 07:02 AM
#18
The ECU is* tuning. It tunes basically perfect up to 7 lbs of boost! I cannot get this thing to run LEAN no matter what I try Naturally Aspirated.
The basic statements made regarding denser air equalling more air are true but Injection isnt generally classified as "more forced air" like NOS or forced induction.
I'm hung up on the stock ecu's ability or inability to utilize higher octane...the point that Kurtz's brought up. I'll be logging timing, duty cycles, etc. ASAP to hopefully arrive at a conclusion.
The basic statements made regarding denser air equalling more air are true but Injection isnt generally classified as "more forced air" like NOS or forced induction.
I'm hung up on the stock ecu's ability or inability to utilize higher octane...the point that Kurtz's brought up. I'll be logging timing, duty cycles, etc. ASAP to hopefully arrive at a conclusion.
10-11-12, 12:46 PM
#19
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The ECU is* tuning. It tunes basically perfect up to 7 lbs of boost! I cannot get this thing to run LEAN no matter what I try Naturally Aspirated.
The basic statements made regarding denser air equalling more air are true but Injection isnt generally classified as "more forced air" like NOS or forced induction.
I'm hung up on the stock ecu's ability or inability to utilize higher octane...the point that Kurtz's brought up. I'll be logging timing, duty cycles, etc. ASAP to hopefully arrive at a conclusion.
The basic statements made regarding denser air equalling more air are true but Injection isnt generally classified as "more forced air" like NOS or forced induction.
I'm hung up on the stock ecu's ability or inability to utilize higher octane...the point that Kurtz's brought up. I'll be logging timing, duty cycles, etc. ASAP to hopefully arrive at a conclusion.
10-15-12, 08:08 PM
#21
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Do not spray through the MAF. MAP, AIT is fine. If you use this on an N/A setup, run more methanol. You probably won't need the EGT reduction as much as you will the extra fuel.
10-16-12, 06:45 AM
#22
Ehh, its not looking so great on N/A daily driving. My MPG is down to an average of 14.6 (vs 20 w/out spray). This point alone leads me to believe the ECU is seeing pig rich conditions and doesnt care. Timing isnt advancing but not being pulled either. IAT are down even further an average of 10 degrees which should def. equate to more aggressive output...but its not... SIGH I'm not ready to draw a final conclusion just yet but right now its looking like our ECU could give two *****s about increased octane benefits the 50% methanol is providing.
Perhaps the 3.25" ID intake I'm using is too large? My spray nozzle GPH is quite small, wouldnt want to try any smaller on that front so thats ruled out. Not real sure anything can really be done at this point aside from using water/meth to cool IATs if conditions warrant. Sort of like a push button water spray kit. LOL Spraying at WOT isnt proving out any performance benefits in my current environment just yet. I'm going to stick a 3" ID pipe in and see if I can change anything... doubtful.. discouraged... I want forced induction back!
Pics of the intake design I am using are in my thread for those that had questions.CLICK
Perhaps the 3.25" ID intake I'm using is too large? My spray nozzle GPH is quite small, wouldnt want to try any smaller on that front so thats ruled out. Not real sure anything can really be done at this point aside from using water/meth to cool IATs if conditions warrant. Sort of like a push button water spray kit. LOL Spraying at WOT isnt proving out any performance benefits in my current environment just yet. I'm going to stick a 3" ID pipe in and see if I can change anything... doubtful.. discouraged... I want forced induction back!
Pics of the intake design I am using are in my thread for those that had questions.CLICK
10-16-12, 01:21 PM
#24
Just did some quick research about nozzle angle into the air stream, and came up with this info from Devilsown :
"Placing the injection nozzle as far from the cylinders as possible on the intake charge pipe allows for the water/methanol mixture to be better absorbed into the intake air charge. This allows for greater distribution into to each cylinder, creating the coolest possible air charge."
Any consideration of adjusting the nozzle placement on the tube to closer to the filter-end of the pipe?
"Placing the injection nozzle as far from the cylinders as possible on the intake charge pipe allows for the water/methanol mixture to be better absorbed into the intake air charge. This allows for greater distribution into to each cylinder, creating the coolest possible air charge."
Any consideration of adjusting the nozzle placement on the tube to closer to the filter-end of the pipe?
10-16-12, 01:28 PM
#25
"Placing the injection nozzle as far from the cylinders as possible on the intake charge pipe allows for the water/methanol mixture to be better absorbed into the intake air charge. This allows for greater distribution into to each cylinder, creating the coolest possible air charge."
Any consideration of adjusting the nozzle placement on the tube to closer to the filter-end of the pipe?
Any consideration of adjusting the nozzle placement on the tube to closer to the filter-end of the pipe?
ANd 'm not putting the nozzle Pre.Maf, it will freak out bigtime.
On my STi running 23 psi I had a dual nozzle setup and best believe it was all vapor by the time it reached the Intake Mani! Here...not so much even with 7psi on the S/C setup.
10-16-12, 05:16 PM
#26
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Unless you move your MAF to right after the intake down in the fenderwell it looks like, moving the nozzle won't do you much good on any front, and like mike said, you might not have enough flow to distribute, depending on your IM setup.
10-17-12, 05:32 PM
#29
Normally, yes. But I've taken careful consideration to ensure that I'm spraying next to nothing in terms of overall GPH compared to the airflow and displacement of our application.
Without stating any other obvious points of consideration ill just say that NO, I'm not spraying too much!
The all but conclusive finding is what I previously stated - the car isn't seeing any added benefit of the increased octane the 50% meth is providing. It doesn't know what to do with it so it just sees RICH. I could go on but there's no need right now until I look at a few other details.
Without stating any other obvious points of consideration ill just say that NO, I'm not spraying too much!
The all but conclusive finding is what I previously stated - the car isn't seeing any added benefit of the increased octane the 50% meth is providing. It doesn't know what to do with it so it just sees RICH. I could go on but there's no need right now until I look at a few other details.