Hey piggybackers
01-20-12, 01:42 PM
#1
Hey piggybackers
Does anyone run a blackbox relay that resets the ECU every time you turn off your car? Im debating to see if thats a good idea for me since im running a SAFCII. Just the only thing i hate is weird idle i get every time my ECU is reset 
Reason why i ask. Word is our VVTI ECU relearns itself on and overrides the piggys. Havent really ran into a problem and i dont have a wideband to see if my "tune" has changed or anything so yea...
Thoughts?
Reason why i ask. Word is our VVTI ECU relearns itself on and overrides the piggys. Havent really ran into a problem and i dont have a wideband to see if my "tune" has changed or anything so yea...
Thoughts?
01-20-12, 03:40 PM
#2
I really suggest a wideband so that you always know what is actually happening.
I've seen the ecu reset seems to be pretty popular with the IS guys. I've seen a few guys running mapecu or greddy emanage that just disconnect all the stock o2 sensors and let the ecu run in fixed map mode so it stops changing from open/closed loop.
I've seen the ecu reset seems to be pretty popular with the IS guys. I've seen a few guys running mapecu or greddy emanage that just disconnect all the stock o2 sensors and let the ecu run in fixed map mode so it stops changing from open/closed loop.
Last edited by 99 GS3; 01-20-12 at 03:43 PM.
01-28-12, 11:42 PM
#4
Do not unplug all the O2 sensors! The stock ecu is highly adaptive and self correcting, let it do its job. Problem with unplugging all the O2 is that you lose O2 feedback functionality. If there are temperature swings where you live, then this will cause big problems for you. In the hot afternoon, say it's 90-100F outside and then it's 50-60F at night. This will cause your air fuel ratios to be off by quite a bit. This was one of the old school methods for tuning back when most had no idea how to work with obd2. The other thing with resetting the ecu every time the car was shut off was also a band-aid solution that wasn't very reliable.
Now days, with more advanced piggyback units such as the AEM FIC, you can run boost in conjunction with the stock OBD2 systems. It takes a bit more knowledge, understanding of the system, and a good bit of patience! Targeting and estimating where the long term fuel trims will settle at and not overshooting takes a bit of experimenting and experience. Many inexperienced people that tune the FIC always try to tune on the short term fuel trims and that's where it screws them over.
On the cars I build, everything runs and drives as a stock car should. If the customer wants to buy all the proper sensor simulation add-ons, the car can run and drive around town with no CEL(check engine light) at all. This is not just a 5-10 minute solution where you just reset the code and it pops back a few miles down the road. Nor is it one where the CEL bulb is taken out of the cluster lol. On a properly built and tuned car with a piggyback, you can drive around pretty much indefinetly without ever setting off a CEL. Traction control works, and best of all the car will pass the plug-in OBD2 vehicle emissions testing.
Now days, with more advanced piggyback units such as the AEM FIC, you can run boost in conjunction with the stock OBD2 systems. It takes a bit more knowledge, understanding of the system, and a good bit of patience! Targeting and estimating where the long term fuel trims will settle at and not overshooting takes a bit of experimenting and experience. Many inexperienced people that tune the FIC always try to tune on the short term fuel trims and that's where it screws them over.
On the cars I build, everything runs and drives as a stock car should. If the customer wants to buy all the proper sensor simulation add-ons, the car can run and drive around town with no CEL(check engine light) at all. This is not just a 5-10 minute solution where you just reset the code and it pops back a few miles down the road. Nor is it one where the CEL bulb is taken out of the cluster lol. On a properly built and tuned car with a piggyback, you can drive around pretty much indefinetly without ever setting off a CEL. Traction control works, and best of all the car will pass the plug-in OBD2 vehicle emissions testing.
Last edited by JeffTsai; 01-28-12 at 11:46 PM.
02-01-12, 01:28 AM
#6
Yeah, it's currently on a FIC. A quick rundown on piggybacks. The upside...if you are very familiar with the piggyback system, then the car will run pretty much like a stock boosted car. No CEL and thus, you will pass the plug in OBD-2 emissions testing. The downside, that it takes a good bit more knowledge and patience to properly tune a car on piggyback.
I've done both standalones and piggybacks now, and the piggyback is the more difficult of the two to get it right. On a standalone, whatever you push is what the computer will output to the engine directly and instantly. The piggyback, you have to know how the stock ecu works in terms of long term fuel correction and also the drive cycles till the correction factor is applied. The nice thing about tuning with the piggyback is that once everything is dialed in perfectly, the stock ecu is highly adaptive and you pretty much never have to touch the tune again. That is until you decide to do some further mods lol.
Feel free to ask any questions.
I've done both standalones and piggybacks now, and the piggyback is the more difficult of the two to get it right. On a standalone, whatever you push is what the computer will output to the engine directly and instantly. The piggyback, you have to know how the stock ecu works in terms of long term fuel correction and also the drive cycles till the correction factor is applied. The nice thing about tuning with the piggyback is that once everything is dialed in perfectly, the stock ecu is highly adaptive and you pretty much never have to touch the tune again. That is until you decide to do some further mods lol.
Feel free to ask any questions.
02-01-12, 02:38 PM
#7
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And to add to what Jeff said, a standalone properly tuned and setup will be just as good if not better, IMO better. I know with my haltech on my IS300 after i tuned it, i NEVER touched it again. I didnt even have an AFR gauge. The car never hiccuped.
A standalone is more expensive, but a better route in the end. Unless your power goals are low, Then in that case you wouldn't have to spend to much money on a more exotic system.
A standalone is more expensive, but a better route in the end. Unless your power goals are low, Then in that case you wouldn't have to spend to much money on a more exotic system.
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02-01-12, 02:46 PM
#8
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And to add to what Jeff said, a standalone properly tuned and setup will be just as good if not better, IMO better. I know with my haltech on my IS300 after i tuned it, i NEVER touched it again. I didnt even have an AFR gauge. The car never hiccuped.
A standalone is more expensive, but a better route in the end. Unless your power goals are low, Then in that case you wouldn't have to spend to much money on a more exotic system.
A standalone is more expensive, but a better route in the end. Unless your power goals are low, Then in that case you wouldn't have to spend to much money on a more exotic system.
02-02-12, 06:33 AM
#9
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Yeah, it's currently on a FIC. A quick rundown on piggybacks. The upside...if you are very familiar with the piggyback system, then the car will run pretty much like a stock boosted car. No CEL and thus, you will pass the plug in OBD-2 emissions testing. The downside, that it takes a good bit more knowledge and patience to properly tune a car on piggyback.
I've done both standalones and piggybacks now, and the piggyback is the more difficult of the two to get it right. On a standalone, whatever you push is what the computer will output to the engine directly and instantly. The piggyback, you have to know how the stock ecu works in terms of long term fuel correction and also the drive cycles till the correction factor is applied. The nice thing about tuning with the piggyback is that once everything is dialed in perfectly, the stock ecu is highly adaptive and you pretty much never have to touch the tune again. That is until you decide to do some further mods lol.
Feel free to ask any questions.
I've done both standalones and piggybacks now, and the piggyback is the more difficult of the two to get it right. On a standalone, whatever you push is what the computer will output to the engine directly and instantly. The piggyback, you have to know how the stock ecu works in terms of long term fuel correction and also the drive cycles till the correction factor is applied. The nice thing about tuning with the piggyback is that once everything is dialed in perfectly, the stock ecu is highly adaptive and you pretty much never have to touch the tune again. That is until you decide to do some further mods lol.
Feel free to ask any questions.
02-05-12, 11:20 PM
#11
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@ Jeff...do you notice any issues with barometric (atmospheric/weather) changes in the tune on the FIC? I'm kinda on the fence between the two. I do not have emissions here where I live. With that being said, I do like the idea of having a smog friendly car but do not like the idea of having to chase my tail around on tuning. How much tweaking time did you spend on the FIC? BTW thank you for response!
Erik
Erik
02-06-12, 10:58 PM
#13
@ Jeff...do you notice any issues with barometric (atmospheric/weather) changes in the tune on the FIC? I'm kinda on the fence between the two. I do not have emissions here where I live. With that being said, I do like the idea of having a smog friendly car but do not like the idea of having to chase my tail around on tuning. How much tweaking time did you spend on the FIC? BTW thank you for response!
Erik
Erik
The main upside of advanced piggybacks such as the AEM FIC and Greddy eManage Ultimate is that you are able to keep pretty much stock drivability, reliability, gas mileage(as long as you don't gun it all the time). The biggest upside for me is that I can pass OBD-II plug in emissions testing!
The downside is that the system has to be tuned to perfection. As I said earlier, the stock ECU is highly adaptive and has many many error detections and failsafes built in. If you do not account for every single one of these, then you will run into issues of limp mode and the car changing tunes on you. However, if you master the tune for it, it's pretty much the most awesome thing you can have on your car since it will never have to be tuned ever again.
Standalone is great because you don't have to work with the stock ecu and make it happy. Whatever you input in the tables on the standalone is precisely what it's going to output to the engine. However, there are a TON of variables to tune in a standalone as well. It's not all smooth sailing since most standalones have a pretty steep learning curve to them if you're a beginner.
Here's what it comes down to in my opinion. For a mid level HP street car, you can get away with around 500-700hp depending on your tuning skill level on a piggyback. This will run very very similar to an OEM tune if you can get everything nailed down. This is my absolute recommendation if it's going to be a daily driven street car. If the car is going to be a seldom weekend cruiser/racer then you can look to getting a standalone to make more power than a piggyback can handle. It does not matter how good you can tune a standalone, you will be close but you never be able to match the OEM level of refinement, smoothness, reliability, sensor feedback, etc.
Don't get the MAP ECU 1 because It's more or less a fancy SAFC(also no good for these cars). It's junk for these cars with highly adaptive OBD-II systems. Use at least a AEM FIC, eManage Ultimate, or MAPECU2. These 3 piggyback systems have post ECU injector direct drivers(one of the most important advancements in "kinda" recent piggyback history that allows you to get a good stable tune on OBD-II cars).
Last edited by JeffTsai; 02-06-12 at 11:01 PM.
02-07-12, 09:56 AM
#15
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@ Jeff...Thank you for the excellent response. I don't ever see the car going over that hp range you gave. I may have to give it a go. Sounds like you're very pleased with the FIC on your car daily driver?!!! I do believe there are a couple wire harness makers out there that make an adapter harness to the FIC, don't they? If I decided to go through with it, would you mind if I continued to ask tuning questions?
BTW this application would be for the v8 (gs430)...so that would using the FIC 8. Have you installed or tuned one on the v8 models?
Erik
BTW this application would be for the v8 (gs430)...so that would using the FIC 8. Have you installed or tuned one on the v8 models?
Erik