Silkky

iTrader: (3)

That sounds so awesome.

GILLEXUS

iTrader: (14)

Are you looking for any kit or a certain one?

juxtapose

hey kingdavid from that youtube video Arma actually wrote hes located in shanghai, if you would like im currently there for vacation i can ask for more information if you would like

calvin2376

iTrader: (2)

This is a totally irrelevant argument. I'm not saying Lexus is not somehow "constraining" the performance capabilities of the IS350. However, the fact that Lexus limits the top speed of the IS350 in no way whatsoever proves or serves even as tenuous evidence of this fact. Almost all non-exotic car manufacturers limit the top speeds of their vehicles. Exactly in what way does this constrain performance? Would you say that BMW is "constraining" performance of the 2012 M5, which is also limited to 155 MPH, a car that has a brand new twin-turbocharged V8 with 555 HP and 506 lb-ft of torque and can reach 0-60 in 4.4 seconds?

I'm not saying your conclusion is unwarranted, I'm saying you need to present a much better argument.

I'm trying to figure out through this word soup whether you understand that building a car like the LFA is an entirely different thing than building an IS350. The LFA is a $400k, production-limited supercar, on each example of which Lexus is taking a loss. Yes, you're right - this car is a meticulously-designed and painstakingly-developed performance automobile. BUT THAT'S WHY IT COSTS $400,000 AND EVEN MORE TO ACTUALLY PRODUCE. The IS350 costs $40k. Do you understand how they might have had to make compromises?

And how exactly is the IS350 constrained? There's another thread on CL that points out fairly clearly that the IS350 is one of, if not the, quickest 4-door V6 car. Its naturally-aspirated powerplant produces the same HP the BMW 335i needs two turbos to achieve.

I think it's clear that what you're saying is you wish Lexus made the IS350 as fast, quick, and powerful a performance machine as possible. How do you not realize that this is not at all advisable on a mass-production car aimed at a broad demographic that is expected to last 200k miles or more and costs $40k? If Lexus went and tacked on forced induction or remapped the ECU for more power or did whatever you personally wish they'd done, a few things would happen:

1) The cars wouldn't last nearly as long.

2) Reliability would sink.

3) Maintenance costs would go up.

4) Price would skyrocket

5) Sales would tank. People buying the IS250 and IS350 for their blend of sport and luxury. They do not buy them because they're performance beasts. That is why the IS-F exists.

Which, if any of the above outcomes, do you think are good for either Lexus or IS350 buyers?

Car manufacturers design and build cars for specific demographics and segments. The 2IS is Lexus' most mass-market car, built for a variety of demographics and is meant to be the sales leader, and the IS350 trim level is intended to capture the more performance-oriented of that demographic. It IS NOT intended to nor CAN it capture the buyers who want a GTR or an LFA.

This argument is also meaningless, because you're comparing two completely different cars built for completely different purposes and consumers at two completely different price points. I'm still baffled how in one post you've based your argument on a comparison of a $40k entry-level car to a $90k track machine and a $400k supercar.

The IS-F is not intended to be compared to the GTR. The IS-F is intended to be a high-performance Lexus, with the luxury, quality, and reliability that comes along with that name as well as an even higher level of performance and sport than the IS350. The GTR is a purely performance machine. It is not as useable as a daily driver than the IS-F (which has 4 doors), nor is it intended to be.

Saying a car is "worth" a price premium over another car necessarily involves your implicitly assigning values to certain attributes. You personally seem to value absolute, pure, raw performance over absolutely all else. That's fine. Buy a GTR. Or an Atom.

But many, many other people value other things along with performance. The buyers of the IS-F value performance but they also value luxury, reliability, 4 doors, etc. This is why the IS-F exists: to serve this demographic.

Oh, did I mention the GTR costs $30k more than the IS-F?

You can't compare two cars without mentioning their price. Because if you exclude price considerations, why would anyone ever buy a Kia sedan when the Porsche Panamera exists? Oh right. The price.

Nissan intended the GTR to be a maxed-out performance machine. Lexus intended the IS-F to be a high performance car that's also a luxury 4-door sedan. This alone explains why these two cars can't be compared. But when price is brought into the discussion, you realize that Nissan had an extra $30k to play with in tuning, tweaking, and maxing out the GTR. Lexus did not do this so that it could reach its intended demographic, and that demographic could afford the car.

The overall conclusion of this is that it's clear from your focus on valuing nothing but absolute, 110% maxed-out performance that you bought the wrong car with the IS350. If that's the case, it represents a mistake on your part, not Lexus's.

Kingdavid

iTrader: (1)

Calvin
The point isn't to make an argument for anything beyond getting across that Lexus could have made the is350 a superior perodrmance vehicle WIHOUT losing customers through dampened vehicle life an increased vehicle costs, they ARE doing it infact though minus the is350 itself, rather having put the FI in the Toyota mark-x which has the same engine and a worse suspension. So it's not that Lexus can't do it, and the certainy aren't protecting the customers.
With regards to the LFA(and apologize for the embrangle of my prose before) I was simply using the car as evidence of lexus's ability when it comes to eking performance from places you wouldn't expect. The lfa accomplishes it's feats of automotive magic not through a million horsepower crammed over a set of super fat tires like the typical supercar, but instead by paying attention to the little details and extracting MAXIMUM PERFORMANCE out of what is comparatively a mundane engine(insofar as hp output) and a blaze' gearbox. it's not the grand canyon of leaps of logic to apply the same concept to the lesser but no less deserving is350 at cost effective prices. In fact, the FI parts already been done by Toyota which was the entire subject I kicked this thread off on. My apparent "extraneous" arguments with Kurtz came as a result of us using external examples to illustrate point and counterpoint.
An finally, on the gt-r I'll use it to confirm your point that yes, I'm pretty much a performance junky. But with the twist that I enjoy a Luxureous interior and don't understand why I can't have both. You annotated price specifically as a measuring pole between the is-f and the gt-r well check it out. An older model gt-r with sub-30,000 miles on it can be found for 58-70+ thousand dollars the span of which includes the msrp for a new is-f. An 09 gt-r smokes the new is-f in all categories save perhaps interior ergonomics which, while a point if measure for me, is not the primary. You can respond with "well an older model is-f goes for about 30-40 grand"...and is even less a competitor against Godzilla, so assuming I had the cash to spend (say 60grand) on an 09 gt-r I would go godzilla every time. The argument is only truly irrelevant one but nonetheless brought up and hopefully this lays It to rest.

Kingdavid

iTrader: (1)

Oh and the 2gr-FSE can't put out nearly as much hp as the N54, not even close. Even with a SC would fall short on sheer power. Lexus advantage is late torque, a lighter car and a better stock suspension. (sure there's less body roll for the bimmer but it doesn't feel the road near as well) keep in mind a BMW with a proceed chip can put out +400 hp. BMW's tongue in cheek f$&@ you to the Japanese market.

Kurtz

iTrader: (1)

Err... the supercharged mark-x only makes about 54 more hp than a stock IS350 does NA.

All it is is the TOMs supercharger kit with a different name on it.

I mean it's literally that kit with a different name.

The TOMs kit is north of $10,000... is the supercharged Mark-X less than a $10,000 upgrade from the NA one?

Because if not then it'd be idiotic to offer it on the IS350 in the US... since folks could instead spend about 10k more and get an IS-F instead... which would be double the hp gain of the supercharger option and have a better transmission.

So while it's possible they COULD offer it nobody would buy it.

calvin2376

iTrader: (2)

So this entire thread boils down to the fact that you fault Lexus for not including some form of forced induction on the IS350.

That's fine.

But you seem completely perplexed as to why Lexus wouldn't do this:

I don't understand why you can't fathom this decision not to include forced induction.

1) FI would make the car more expensive

2) FI would likely result in worse gas mileage and/or shorter engine and transmission life

3) FI is entirely undesired by 99.9999% of Lexus' target demographic for all its cars

4) FI would introduce complexity and could raise reliability issues

Those are just a few off the top of my head; this isn't rocket science. How can you not understand why Lexus didn't include FI on the IS350? Lexus wants to meet the needs and desires of its target demographic, in order to sell the most cars it can. FI may increase power/performance, but it would entail trade-offs that would compromise aspects of the car that are valued far, FAR more highly than power/performance by 99.9999% of Lexus buyers: those aspects being gas mileage, price, reliability, etc.

If you (or a different hypothetical buyer) value power/performance over all other aspects of the car, then I daresay you should have considered a different car.

XhyDra

iTrader: (8)

Look bottom line the ARMA supercharger has never been tested on an IS350 regardless of their claim that it works for the 2GR-FSE.

Like Kurtz said, 54hp isn't that much for the price, the car wasn't really designed to be equipped with force induction. Might as well just use the extra 7k to upgrade to an F, same can be said for an IS250 -> IS350.

If and only if I had that kind of money to burn I would put it on my IS250 just because I like the idea of a 312hp IS250. Other than that my best cheapest option for an extra 100hp is a nitrous kit.

Frankly if you're in a country where IS-F's or IS350's are non-existent then a supercharger is the best bet. I mean c'mon the thing turns the 204hp V6 NA 2.5L into a 312hp supercharged beast. That my friends is HP gains

If it was on sale for 2-3k sign me up! Other than that...

pepos

For some time now as a member in this forum i've seen this kind of argument for lots of times guys.
But very few of us took the risk to take money out of their pockets and take the shoot.
Bottom line is that with 9500$ ARMA or LMS or whatever, you can gain 95 to 105 BHP on a 4gr-fse and perhaps a little bit more on a 2gr-fse.
That's the price tag right now to run the car safely and it can drop to 7000$ if you DIY the parts needed for the S/C kit which is the most expensive one.
With this setup and budget you can go safely to 7,5 PSI but no more than that.
A piggy works perfectly in open loop and a water/meth kit is also needed.
These are the facts in nowdays and all the rest is just theory.
Until we see a tuner shop producing something cheaper meaning that he will be able to sell above 200 or 300 kits this is our only option in terms of money and power.
As i recall because i came in contact with almost everybody that has tuned his ISx50 around the globe if you take out Japan, we are 30 guys more or less who have done it.
10 in the US
20 in Asia
2 in Europe
So there is no market suficient enough to drop the price tag because the shops don't see any real interest.

urluxury

so finally have someone to be a pioneer?

2010Lex

You still in NC I am fort Bragg and I was really looking into the kit also...if we combine our efforts I am also willing to put up the $$$ to get the kit installed...I mean you only live once right =}

Kingdavid

iTrader: (1)

Nah man sorry. I PCS'd to Ft Lewis. HKS350 lives around Fayetteville though dude and I'd you're trying to tune he'd be the guy to see. he dropped an his s/c kit into his 350, if you ever see a slammed white one with pink five spokes that's him lol.

SatxIS350

iTrader: (1)

2010lex u must of just got back from downrange?

Kingdavid

iTrader: (1)

Nah nah, graduated a certain course to get a certain green hat etc. Etc. Got back from the sandbox like a year and a half ago. So has any of your mods increased performance noticeably? I'm on the fence now wither either Modding my 350 or just saving up and get g a 2010 gtr at this point.