Synthetic Oil - Change Interval
07-22-11, 08:43 AM
#61
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Thread Starter
Not trying to be too critical here, but what is the point of changing oil every 5000km (3000 miles), when even Lexus recommends 6000-7000 miles in between? And doing so with 100% Expensive synthetic to boot?
Is the purpose:
a) hope to prevent gunk from forming
b) make engine last for ???? miles
c) peace of mind ?
d) you drive super hard or have turbo?
e) _____________________ ?
Reason I ask, is even though Im extreme at 50,000 miles between mu oil changes, with new K&N oil filters every 5-7K miles, I just cant imagine why anyone would want to spend 2X+ the money on super-short oil change intervals...
If the goal is to hope for an engine that last a long time, how many people drive their car past 200,000 miles? The seats start ripping, and a heck of a lot of other mechanical problems start creeping up past 150,000 miles. And once a car passes 110-120K miles, it doesnt retain much value when trying to sell or trade.
Again, if the goal is an engine that lasts a long time, Ive got 250,000+ miles...the rest of my GS300 is aging more than the internals of the engine.
Is the purpose:
a) hope to prevent gunk from forming
b) make engine last for ???? miles
c) peace of mind ?
d) you drive super hard or have turbo?
e) _____________________ ?
Reason I ask, is even though Im extreme at 50,000 miles between mu oil changes, with new K&N oil filters every 5-7K miles, I just cant imagine why anyone would want to spend 2X+ the money on super-short oil change intervals...
If the goal is to hope for an engine that last a long time, how many people drive their car past 200,000 miles? The seats start ripping, and a heck of a lot of other mechanical problems start creeping up past 150,000 miles. And once a car passes 110-120K miles, it doesnt retain much value when trying to sell or trade.
Again, if the goal is an engine that lasts a long time, Ive got 250,000+ miles...the rest of my GS300 is aging more than the internals of the engine.
08-08-11, 02:25 PM
#64
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az-dave, 50k miles is doable with the careful replenishment protocol and a high quality bypass filtration. Still would watch TBN and TAN levels to boot and do particulate count to establish a baseline for my expensive equipment. When asked for proof - a used oil analysis - you bail out by saying you just changed the oil and don't drive the car that much any more. In other words: I don't believe you.
08-08-11, 03:08 PM
#65
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Thread Starter
I could car less if you believe me..I started this thread. And I did so because when I recently changed my valve cover gaskets I was amazed at how clean it was.Ive done this exact same thing on 3 other vehicles.
As for saying I "Bailed Out" - Haha. I moved to being within 1-1/2 miles of my work, verses 20+ miles. I simply drive 10x less now than I did, but I can assure you, I wont change that oil for a long time. And it wont hurt YOU one damned bit.
Im the one with 250K+ miles on my GS, and I CAN prove that....how many miles you got on yours? Do you even own one? Or are you throwing around comments and accusations because you think your smarter than everyone else?
Anyway, go jack someone elses thread or start your own, I dont appreciate being called a Liar when Ive posted HUNDREDS of posts on this forum over the past 5 years and answered dozens of personal messages to help people fix their throttle problems, transmission issues, etc. I doubt youve done the same.
The fact is Ive had my car since 2001 and I put 220K of those 250K miles on it, and I know how many times Ive changed my oil. Your accusations are infantile and unwarranted.
az-dave, 50k miles is doable with the careful replenishment protocol and a high quality bypass filtration. Still would watch TBN and TAN levels to boot and do particulate count to establish a baseline for my expensive equipment. When asked for proof - a used oil analysis - you bail out by saying you just changed the oil and don't drive the car that much any more. In other words: I don't believe you.
08-08-11, 03:44 PM
#66
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Your username shows more than a hundred and less than HUNDREDS. Besides, quantity does not always translates in quality, if the informational value is zro or below. Proof, please. I deal with trained tribologists and metrologists all the time, btw.
08-09-11, 12:06 PM
#67
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Thread Starter
Some People Just Cant Handle the TRUTH.
Wow...is this like your 7th post to the forum...YOU MUST be a friggin expert.
My 113th post is due a new username because my prior account got jacked up, I re-joined in 2008, so regardless of your childish remarks I still have over 100 more posts that you have, many with pictures, and detailed instructions on how to fix issues. Your posts all seem to be searching for information, not GIVING information. I had over 100 posts prior to 2008 due to the master cylinder and a few other problems. But you werent on these forums back then, so you wouldnt know, would you?
If you BOTHERED to look at my posts, you would see the QUALITY of them and the dozens of people I have helped solve the limp-mode problem, the master cylinder booster problem and many others, such as the OCV valve posts I did back in March. This doesnt include the personal messages Ive had with many people helping them fix problems.
Calling me a LIAR on a thread I started is immature and Narcissistic, and serves no helpful purpose on this forum. You my sir are a jerk.
Im glad you dont believe me, it means you can spend money on oil while I dont have to. It also means you are incapable of having an open mind and learning new things pertaining very field you claim to be an expert in.
The fact that I know Ive run 50,000 miles btwn oil changes, and still have a perfectly fine running 2JZGE engine means I have learned something. It means Ive been able to overcome that resistance to information which goes against the grain and established theory and have educated myself with real-world RESULTS, the "Data" be damned. It DOESNT mean I belittle other people for NOT doing what I do.
This thread was started as a way to discover if other people have ever done this, and to have intelligent, mature discussions about a topic that was sure to be controversial, but was backed up by FACTS as well as RESULTS. You dont seem capable of dealing with the truth in this case.
The last car I did this on was a 1998 Chevy Beretta 2.8L V6. I drove it til it had 230,000 miles. 50,000 in between oil changes with oil filters every 5K or so and a new quart of Valvoline 100% Synthetic. I was still able to burn the tires off in that car when I GAVE it to the salvation army because the AC compressor gave out and the rear view mirror fell off and the headliner fell apart.
In other words, My engines outlast the car the sit in.
My RX300 is currently at about 13,000 on its oil. Its due for a filter change this month. Its got over 150,000 miles on it. Ive owned it since 35K miles.
Yeah, Im such a big fat liar that I decided to start a thread about something I dont do just so I can waste my time writing long posts like this to jerks like you.
Hint: Go start your own thread about something I-M-P-O-R-T-A-N-T
My 113th post is due a new username because my prior account got jacked up, I re-joined in 2008, so regardless of your childish remarks I still have over 100 more posts that you have, many with pictures, and detailed instructions on how to fix issues. Your posts all seem to be searching for information, not GIVING information. I had over 100 posts prior to 2008 due to the master cylinder and a few other problems. But you werent on these forums back then, so you wouldnt know, would you?
If you BOTHERED to look at my posts, you would see the QUALITY of them and the dozens of people I have helped solve the limp-mode problem, the master cylinder booster problem and many others, such as the OCV valve posts I did back in March. This doesnt include the personal messages Ive had with many people helping them fix problems.
Calling me a LIAR on a thread I started is immature and Narcissistic, and serves no helpful purpose on this forum. You my sir are a jerk.
Im glad you dont believe me, it means you can spend money on oil while I dont have to. It also means you are incapable of having an open mind and learning new things pertaining very field you claim to be an expert in.
The fact that I know Ive run 50,000 miles btwn oil changes, and still have a perfectly fine running 2JZGE engine means I have learned something. It means Ive been able to overcome that resistance to information which goes against the grain and established theory and have educated myself with real-world RESULTS, the "Data" be damned. It DOESNT mean I belittle other people for NOT doing what I do.
This thread was started as a way to discover if other people have ever done this, and to have intelligent, mature discussions about a topic that was sure to be controversial, but was backed up by FACTS as well as RESULTS. You dont seem capable of dealing with the truth in this case.
The last car I did this on was a 1998 Chevy Beretta 2.8L V6. I drove it til it had 230,000 miles. 50,000 in between oil changes with oil filters every 5K or so and a new quart of Valvoline 100% Synthetic. I was still able to burn the tires off in that car when I GAVE it to the salvation army because the AC compressor gave out and the rear view mirror fell off and the headliner fell apart.
In other words, My engines outlast the car the sit in.
My RX300 is currently at about 13,000 on its oil. Its due for a filter change this month. Its got over 150,000 miles on it. Ive owned it since 35K miles.
Yeah, Im such a big fat liar that I decided to start a thread about something I dont do just so I can waste my time writing long posts like this to jerks like you.
Hint: Go start your own thread about something I-M-P-O-R-T-A-N-T
08-09-11, 12:43 PM
#68
Lead Lap
Thread Starter
BACK to the TOPIC
Im not sure if apdxyk will continue to jack threads. But Id like to get this thread back on-topic and reiterate the purpose of why I started it.
To all the other visitors to the thread, and the many people who Ive talked to both in replies and personal messages:
EVERYTHING I say on this thread is the truth and I have no Motive to convince others to do the same. I will take people to task who do 3000 and less oil changes simply because they are not even following the manufacturers recommendations either, call it 2 extremes, although mine is riskier.
My GS300 with over 250K miles currently gets driven once per week, I cannot provide any official analysis reports. The Oil I drained in March when I did fixed my OCV Valve and fixed the butterfly valve which broke was emptied into a pan that had transmission fluid and a little oil from my boat. I guess I could get it analyzed but it would be tainted.
The RX300 I will be able to do so after a few more thousand miles.
I WILL provide analysis for the RX, and I may do the tainted oil from the GS just for ****s and giggles.
I also do extended oil intervals on my 2005 Avalanche but I tow heavy Boats, RV's with it, and taking it up the Mogollon rim from 1000ft Elev to 7700ft the Oil is being exposed to far tougher conditions than my GS or RX. Ive owned the AV for 1.5 yrs and have done 3 oil changes, one when I got it, one after 2,000 miles because I switched it to synthetic and the oil pan developed a leak which required the oil drained and one recently after I drove it another 14,000 miles. I did 2 oil filter changes on it in between.
The point Ive tried to make with this thread is that Im driving a GS300 which other than the occasional bolt-on part (throttle sensor, O2 sensor) runs perfectly fine with over 250,000 miles on it. I drive it to Vegas, to Rocky Point to San Diego, and I havnt done the Oil changes every 3000-5000 miles but rather the filters (K&N or Purolator). The rest of the car has had more issues after 150,000 miles than the engine...so I wanted to know why some people are so adamant about 3000-5000K intervals when most people simply done keep their cars past 150,000? It seems like a fair question.
(ps: I know I know "Better safe than sorry" - and I agree, but my 'experiment' was based on using 100% synthetic, using very high quality oil filters, not having an engine with excessive blow-by adding fuel/vapors/water into the oil, and the fact that every oil filter change resulted in 20% of the oil being new, by the time 50,000 miles is hit, ive put in 9 additional quarts of oil (there are 9 5000-mile filter changes per 50,000 miles drive) since the original 5, not due to excessive burning, mostly due to the filter loss of old oil,)
To all the other visitors to the thread, and the many people who Ive talked to both in replies and personal messages:
EVERYTHING I say on this thread is the truth and I have no Motive to convince others to do the same. I will take people to task who do 3000 and less oil changes simply because they are not even following the manufacturers recommendations either, call it 2 extremes, although mine is riskier.
My GS300 with over 250K miles currently gets driven once per week, I cannot provide any official analysis reports. The Oil I drained in March when I did fixed my OCV Valve and fixed the butterfly valve which broke was emptied into a pan that had transmission fluid and a little oil from my boat. I guess I could get it analyzed but it would be tainted.
The RX300 I will be able to do so after a few more thousand miles.
I WILL provide analysis for the RX, and I may do the tainted oil from the GS just for ****s and giggles.
I also do extended oil intervals on my 2005 Avalanche but I tow heavy Boats, RV's with it, and taking it up the Mogollon rim from 1000ft Elev to 7700ft the Oil is being exposed to far tougher conditions than my GS or RX. Ive owned the AV for 1.5 yrs and have done 3 oil changes, one when I got it, one after 2,000 miles because I switched it to synthetic and the oil pan developed a leak which required the oil drained and one recently after I drove it another 14,000 miles. I did 2 oil filter changes on it in between.
The point Ive tried to make with this thread is that Im driving a GS300 which other than the occasional bolt-on part (throttle sensor, O2 sensor) runs perfectly fine with over 250,000 miles on it. I drive it to Vegas, to Rocky Point to San Diego, and I havnt done the Oil changes every 3000-5000 miles but rather the filters (K&N or Purolator). The rest of the car has had more issues after 150,000 miles than the engine...so I wanted to know why some people are so adamant about 3000-5000K intervals when most people simply done keep their cars past 150,000? It seems like a fair question.
(ps: I know I know "Better safe than sorry" - and I agree, but my 'experiment' was based on using 100% synthetic, using very high quality oil filters, not having an engine with excessive blow-by adding fuel/vapors/water into the oil, and the fact that every oil filter change resulted in 20% of the oil being new, by the time 50,000 miles is hit, ive put in 9 additional quarts of oil (there are 9 5000-mile filter changes per 50,000 miles drive) since the original 5, not due to excessive burning, mostly due to the filter loss of old oil,)
Last edited by az-dave; 08-09-11 at 12:52 PM. Reason: added ps
08-16-11, 08:48 AM
#69
I have plenty of piece of mind changing Valv 100% Syn oil every 50K with changing filters at every 5K and adding the new Qt....Ive done it on 6 vehicles, and 2 of them over 200K.
I completely understand the uneasiness of that idea, since we are all educated on the 3000 thing....but whats funny is now many car mfgrs are saying 5000-7000 is perfectly fine with normal oil, and now you even have a few saying 10,000 to 12,000.
So...what gives? I think the 3000 thing was something the oil companies pushed in the 60's-90's to sell more oil...oh, and American V8's in the 60's-80's didnt have the best of tolerances....so probably best to change oil more often on those older engines.
Im really liking all the comments and views. Keep em coming in.
Anyone else ever run an engine to 250K miles (and still running) only changing Oil every 50K ?
I completely understand the uneasiness of that idea, since we are all educated on the 3000 thing....but whats funny is now many car mfgrs are saying 5000-7000 is perfectly fine with normal oil, and now you even have a few saying 10,000 to 12,000.
So...what gives? I think the 3000 thing was something the oil companies pushed in the 60's-90's to sell more oil...oh, and American V8's in the 60's-80's didnt have the best of tolerances....so probably best to change oil more often on those older engines.
Im really liking all the comments and views. Keep em coming in.
Anyone else ever run an engine to 250K miles (and still running) only changing Oil every 50K ?
08-16-11, 09:09 AM
#70
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synthetic oil change interval for series 2 gs 300
i'll turn 230k today on my 2002 GS 300 and i used Royal Purple synthetic for the first 110k and now Mobil 1 Synthetic, and i change every 10k. car runs prefectly, though needs a qt about every 2,000 miles. I log it in my Smartphone so i know where i stand and it's been that way for last 50k miles.
08-16-11, 09:22 AM
#71
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Thread Starter
Its cool to see other people that do extended interval changes with pretty high mileage engines too and not have any negative effects. The specs for our engine call for a loss of 0.5-1 qt every 3000-4000 miles, so sounds like were all doing fine on that part as well.
I really think the rest of the car will fall apart before my engine.
I really think the rest of the car will fall apart before my engine.
08-16-11, 09:52 AM
#72
Its cool to see other people that do extended interval changes with pretty high mileage engines too and not have any negative effects. The specs for our engine call for a loss of 0.5-1 qt every 3000-4000 miles, so sounds like were all doing fine on that part as well.
I really think the rest of the car will fall apart before my engine.
I really think the rest of the car will fall apart before my engine.
08-17-11, 08:31 AM
#74
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Thread Starter
Lexus (Toyota) Tranny fluid is good for 60-75,000 miles. Its totally different than Delco or Ford tranny fluid. Its also very expensive compared to normal tranny fluid.
Tranny fluid is under different conditions than engine oil. Tranny fluid has to do 2 competing functions: It must lubricate the metal gears and bearings inside the tranny to keep them from burning up, but at the same time it must act with friction on the clutch pack plates and inside the torque converter to transfer the engine power thru itself (the fluid) and turn the tranny gears. Its not exposed to fuel, exhaust, etc, but its under tremendous pressure and heat.
Also, Lexus doesnt use a replaceable filter in their trannys, there is a stainless steel mesh screen thats inside the transmission pan, which is different than a lot of car manufacturers as well.
Due to the buildup of microscopic metal and clutch-pack particles that get suspended in the tranny fluid, I changed my Tranny fluid as recommended every 60-75K miles, I replaced my tranny 2 years ago at 225K miles due to a broken gear tooth in the planet gear assembly, it didnt slip at all, and wasnt burned out, it simple made a deep thumping noise that drove me crazy. The planet gear alone cost $575, plus all the gaskets, and I was able to buy a 2003 tranny with 45K miles for $500.
If there was a way to filter the tranny fluid really good, my hunch is the stuff would last forever, with the exception that it may need some detergents that are lost in the filtering process.
Also...Lexus Tranny fluid seems to get dark pretty quick, just because its not nice and perfect pink DOES NOT mean its not good, AND just as a side note, when your lexus dealer "changes" your tranny fluid, they drain ONLY the tranny pan which is only 5 quarts, leaving the other 7 quarts of old oil inside the tranny to be mixed with the new.
That being said...the tranny fluid pretty much does last the lifetime of the vehicle since its never 100% replaced.
Wow..that was a long reply..sorry.
Tranny fluid is under different conditions than engine oil. Tranny fluid has to do 2 competing functions: It must lubricate the metal gears and bearings inside the tranny to keep them from burning up, but at the same time it must act with friction on the clutch pack plates and inside the torque converter to transfer the engine power thru itself (the fluid) and turn the tranny gears. Its not exposed to fuel, exhaust, etc, but its under tremendous pressure and heat.
Also, Lexus doesnt use a replaceable filter in their trannys, there is a stainless steel mesh screen thats inside the transmission pan, which is different than a lot of car manufacturers as well.
Due to the buildup of microscopic metal and clutch-pack particles that get suspended in the tranny fluid, I changed my Tranny fluid as recommended every 60-75K miles, I replaced my tranny 2 years ago at 225K miles due to a broken gear tooth in the planet gear assembly, it didnt slip at all, and wasnt burned out, it simple made a deep thumping noise that drove me crazy. The planet gear alone cost $575, plus all the gaskets, and I was able to buy a 2003 tranny with 45K miles for $500.
If there was a way to filter the tranny fluid really good, my hunch is the stuff would last forever, with the exception that it may need some detergents that are lost in the filtering process.
Also...Lexus Tranny fluid seems to get dark pretty quick, just because its not nice and perfect pink DOES NOT mean its not good, AND just as a side note, when your lexus dealer "changes" your tranny fluid, they drain ONLY the tranny pan which is only 5 quarts, leaving the other 7 quarts of old oil inside the tranny to be mixed with the new.
That being said...the tranny fluid pretty much does last the lifetime of the vehicle since its never 100% replaced.
Wow..that was a long reply..sorry.
08-17-11, 08:51 AM
#75
Lead Lap
Thread Starter
Yeah, this thread isnt at all intended to take shots at people who change every 3-5K. 3K seems a bit short, but 5K is close to the 5-7K recommended by manufacturer. I guess some new car mfgrs are recommending 7K-10K now. Which is interesting. As oil gets more scarce and expensive, they may up it over the years.
I used to be Religious about changing oil every 3-5K. Then in 1997 I met a guy that raced stock cars in Portland OR and owned his own shop. Got to know him well, and he convinced me on synthetic oil, and also said he would run 25K miles between changes, but did filters every 5K. I didnt believe him. he shows me his log as well as takes his valve covers off his 350 to show me its not gunked up. Then he shows me an engine hes rebuilding on a 305 mustang that ran a certain well-known brand of non-syn oil that had religious 5K oil changes and they are gunked up beyond belief. Back then Synthetic was literally 4-5X as much as regular oil.
Long story short, my Chevy Beretta had a tad over 100K miles on it at the time, and I drove A LOT (35K+/year) so I decided to take a chance and see if that Beretta would blow up if I did extended oil changes. I WANTED a new car. I started at 20K intervals, then moved up to 50K between once I reached ~140K miles. Drove that car til it had 235K miles and it was still running strong.
So I decided to continue with my Lexus, and after doing 2 oil changes once when I got it, and one after 5K as a flush change I went directly to 50K between actual drains. Now Im at 250K and running strong.
I Wont do this with my truck that I tow with, but I do it on my RX300 with no ill effects.
I used to be Religious about changing oil every 3-5K. Then in 1997 I met a guy that raced stock cars in Portland OR and owned his own shop. Got to know him well, and he convinced me on synthetic oil, and also said he would run 25K miles between changes, but did filters every 5K. I didnt believe him. he shows me his log as well as takes his valve covers off his 350 to show me its not gunked up. Then he shows me an engine hes rebuilding on a 305 mustang that ran a certain well-known brand of non-syn oil that had religious 5K oil changes and they are gunked up beyond belief. Back then Synthetic was literally 4-5X as much as regular oil.
Long story short, my Chevy Beretta had a tad over 100K miles on it at the time, and I drove A LOT (35K+/year) so I decided to take a chance and see if that Beretta would blow up if I did extended oil changes. I WANTED a new car. I started at 20K intervals, then moved up to 50K between once I reached ~140K miles. Drove that car til it had 235K miles and it was still running strong.
So I decided to continue with my Lexus, and after doing 2 oil changes once when I got it, and one after 5K as a flush change I went directly to 50K between actual drains. Now Im at 250K and running strong.
I Wont do this with my truck that I tow with, but I do it on my RX300 with no ill effects.