Is a 2JZ-GTE swap truly worth it? Your thoughts are appreciated.
10-14-12, 06:26 PM
#211
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I just picked up a 2000 gs300 platinum edition. Eventually i will be boosting 400whp is more than enough for a daily for me especially when fuel economy is concerned. Now the car has over 200k on the motor/trans. I'm assuming ill have to rebuild the two eventually. Which route is best to go and i must be able to pass NY state emissions. I'm assuming the cost to rebuild and boost the stock block will approximately equal the cost of a full clip gte swap. My question is how will i make a gte emissions compliant??
01-28-13, 01:20 AM
#214
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I also have a 00 platinum series with a jdm 2jzgte vvti with a 70mm turbo with stock ecu. And love the way GTE feels. i know down here in colorado it is not emissions compliant. But then again I'm in a different city then u are. I know NY has strict laws on emissions like california.
I just picked up a 2000 gs300 platinum edition. Eventually i will be boosting 400whp is more than enough for a daily for me especially when fuel economy is concerned. Now the car has over 200k on the motor/trans. I'm assuming ill have to rebuild the two eventually. Which route is best to go and i must be able to pass NY state emissions. I'm assuming the cost to rebuild and boost the stock block will approximately equal the cost of a full clip gte swap. My question is how will i make a gte emissions compliant??
01-28-13, 03:40 PM
#215
If you really want to play that game we can pull up daily driven GTE's over 800whp (real power, not some magical dyno sheet with a weird torque reading) on Supraforums. I'm pretty sure daily driven GTE's with big power outnumber and outlast the NA-T's.
07-28-14, 02:33 PM
#219
I'm going to do a little friendly necro-bump on this thread.
I'm not claiming to be an expert in anything presented in this thread, so feel free to tell me I'm full of it *if you can point out why*.
I have a fun pipe-dream of throwing a turbo kit on my DD 05 2GS. Nothing crazy though, 400rwhp would be on the high end.
This thread is the first I've ever read anywhere claiming that the VVTi GE has weaker connecting rods than other 2JZ's, and said claim being made by one person (although I realize said person is a lot more experienced in working on these engines than I do). Still, that's the first I've heard of it.
Have VVTi GE's shown themselves to actually be weaker and less reliable in practice, or just in theory? Do we have any actual examples of VVTi GE's popping their connecting rods or showing themselves to be less sturdy outside of theoreticals? Apparently one guy is making 800rwhp on the 'weaker' engine, which is twice as much HP as what I would be wanting, so it must not be that bad. Someone stated that they could pry off pieces of the internals with a screwdriver, but as long as I'm not throwing screwdrivers through my intake I don't see how that's relevant?
Here's the point I'm getting at: I'm not looking to make a 900rwhp monster. I'd be happy with a 350-400rwhp setup that's still daily driver friendly but a blast to drive. Going through the process of swapping in GTE engine, and then having to completely rewire all of the pins (yeah...screw that) seems like overkill for my goals. Is there any actual observed instances of VVTi GE's not holding up reliably with a mild turbo kit compared to a GTE, or it only in theory?
Apologies if I'm re-poking the hornet's nest here...
edit: someone was nice enough to post this link that showed the weaker connecting rods:
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/per...-question.html
I'm curious why Toyota went with thinner connecting rods with the VVTi? Best guess was for less rotating mass to eek out a bit more gas mileage efficiency (shrug)?
I'm curious what the actual net effect is on reliability, though, since everything else is the same. If people have gotten 800rwhp out of the 'weaker' connecting rods, then they must not be total junk. Surely a more DD friendly 400rwhp build wouldn't be a problem by that measure, wouldn't you think?
I'm not claiming to be an expert in anything presented in this thread, so feel free to tell me I'm full of it *if you can point out why*.
I have a fun pipe-dream of throwing a turbo kit on my DD 05 2GS. Nothing crazy though, 400rwhp would be on the high end.
This thread is the first I've ever read anywhere claiming that the VVTi GE has weaker connecting rods than other 2JZ's, and said claim being made by one person (although I realize said person is a lot more experienced in working on these engines than I do). Still, that's the first I've heard of it.
Have VVTi GE's shown themselves to actually be weaker and less reliable in practice, or just in theory? Do we have any actual examples of VVTi GE's popping their connecting rods or showing themselves to be less sturdy outside of theoreticals? Apparently one guy is making 800rwhp on the 'weaker' engine, which is twice as much HP as what I would be wanting, so it must not be that bad. Someone stated that they could pry off pieces of the internals with a screwdriver, but as long as I'm not throwing screwdrivers through my intake I don't see how that's relevant?
Here's the point I'm getting at: I'm not looking to make a 900rwhp monster. I'd be happy with a 350-400rwhp setup that's still daily driver friendly but a blast to drive. Going through the process of swapping in GTE engine, and then having to completely rewire all of the pins (yeah...screw that) seems like overkill for my goals. Is there any actual observed instances of VVTi GE's not holding up reliably with a mild turbo kit compared to a GTE, or it only in theory?
Apologies if I'm re-poking the hornet's nest here...
edit: someone was nice enough to post this link that showed the weaker connecting rods:
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/per...-question.html
I'm curious why Toyota went with thinner connecting rods with the VVTi? Best guess was for less rotating mass to eek out a bit more gas mileage efficiency (shrug)?
I'm curious what the actual net effect is on reliability, though, since everything else is the same. If people have gotten 800rwhp out of the 'weaker' connecting rods, then they must not be total junk. Surely a more DD friendly 400rwhp build wouldn't be a problem by that measure, wouldn't you think?
Last edited by mulasien; 07-29-14 at 06:46 AM.
08-02-14, 09:00 PM
#220
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Toyota only went with thinner, lighter rods in the 2jzge vvti, not the 2jzgte vvti motor that came in japan. I think this was for like you said, a little less rotating mass and the motor didn't really "need" to be overbuilt like previously. They also wanted it to rev faster and have more response as a vvt-i car.
I doubt anyone has gotten 800rwhp out of the weaker vvti GE rods. Atleast reliably.
Even the GTE rods you are pushing it. For example let me explain. The reason these rods bend is because of torque, and people experience bending and throwing rods around 700ft lbs of torque. Most people in supras went with larger, laggier turbos because although they make more "peak" horsepower, the torque curve wasn't as brutal as say a 62 or 64mm turbo running higher boost, you are going to spool much quicker and have a much sharper torque curve which can bend rods. Whether you could reliably run 400rwhp out of the vvti GE rods i would say depends on the abruptness of your torque curve and how you drove the car. Maybe you could baby 400hp out of them? I don't know.. Someone who tested the limits would have to chime in.
I doubt anyone has gotten 800rwhp out of the weaker vvti GE rods. Atleast reliably.
Even the GTE rods you are pushing it. For example let me explain. The reason these rods bend is because of torque, and people experience bending and throwing rods around 700ft lbs of torque. Most people in supras went with larger, laggier turbos because although they make more "peak" horsepower, the torque curve wasn't as brutal as say a 62 or 64mm turbo running higher boost, you are going to spool much quicker and have a much sharper torque curve which can bend rods. Whether you could reliably run 400rwhp out of the vvti GE rods i would say depends on the abruptness of your torque curve and how you drove the car. Maybe you could baby 400hp out of them? I don't know.. Someone who tested the limits would have to chime in.
08-03-14, 03:16 PM
#221
Toyota only went with thinner, lighter rods in the 2jzge vvti, not the 2jzgte vvti motor that came in japan. I think this was for like you said, a little less rotating mass and the motor didn't really "need" to be overbuilt like previously. They also wanted it to rev faster and have more response as a vvt-i car.
I doubt anyone has gotten 800rwhp out of the weaker vvti GE rods. Atleast reliably.
Even the GTE rods you are pushing it. For example let me explain. The reason these rods bend is because of torque, and people experience bending and throwing rods around 700ft lbs of torque. Most people in supras went with larger, laggier turbos because although they make more "peak" horsepower, the torque curve wasn't as brutal as say a 62 or 64mm turbo running higher boost, you are going to spool much quicker and have a much sharper torque curve which can bend rods. Whether you could reliably run 400rwhp out of the vvti GE rods i would say depends on the abruptness of your torque curve and how you drove the car. Maybe you could baby 400hp out of them? I don't know.. Someone who tested the limits would have to chime in.
I doubt anyone has gotten 800rwhp out of the weaker vvti GE rods. Atleast reliably.
Even the GTE rods you are pushing it. For example let me explain. The reason these rods bend is because of torque, and people experience bending and throwing rods around 700ft lbs of torque. Most people in supras went with larger, laggier turbos because although they make more "peak" horsepower, the torque curve wasn't as brutal as say a 62 or 64mm turbo running higher boost, you are going to spool much quicker and have a much sharper torque curve which can bend rods. Whether you could reliably run 400rwhp out of the vvti GE rods i would say depends on the abruptness of your torque curve and how you drove the car. Maybe you could baby 400hp out of them? I don't know.. Someone who tested the limits would have to chime in.
IMHO, coming from a muscle car community before I came here, not wanting broad power across the RPM range in exchange for a brief blip of peak horsepower is a terrible way to do it, anyway. Most overall power in the usable RPM range is what wins races. If this ever went beyond a pipe dream for me, I would want a quick spooling turbo that gave me good power across the entire RPM band, not the 'supra dyno graph' meme pics out there that show 50 RPM's worth of good power with the rest in the basement, so I would definitely have to keep that in mind.
Do we actually know of anyone on this board who has installed a turbo kit on a VVTi GE who we can get first hand experiences from? The same year of IS300's uses the same engine, maybe there's someone in there as well.
Regardless, it's still a theoretical pipe dream for me at the moment anyway.
08-14-14, 04:45 AM
#222
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Yes the swap is worth it. I love my 99 Cinnabar VVT-i GTE. A GE will never truly be like a GTE. But the NA-T can be just as reliable/powerful if built correctly.
Both have their high/low points but both are still great and can hold their own respectively.
Both have their high/low points but both are still great and can hold their own respectively.
06-05-16, 02:22 PM
#223
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what up fellas?! I'm new to the Forum ... Well had to make a new profile and need my 30 post before I can actually post stuff up, dammit!!! So reviving some old threads here and took me a loooooong *** time to finish this one lol but with hella good info tho!!!
I am a proud owner of an original manual GE power plant IS300 but it has over 200k. Still running strong but I'm lookin to boost, no doubt! I've decided to go wit the GTE swap over rebuilding my NA GE... Is the GTE that much of a hassle and is there somewhere I can purchase some sort of a jumper harness to run the factory GTE ECU? There's gotta be someone making those by now! Are the manual ECUs different from the automatics? Do I have to run a manual ECU or can I make thr auto work?
I've been reading up that the Aisin AR5 trans (that's dirt cheap and equivalent to the R154 but better synchros) and possibly Aisin AY6 trans (that's a 6 spd) will work with the 2JZ. I will be selling my 2JZE setup as well if anyone is interested) Any insight guys?!
I am a proud owner of an original manual GE power plant IS300 but it has over 200k. Still running strong but I'm lookin to boost, no doubt! I've decided to go wit the GTE swap over rebuilding my NA GE... Is the GTE that much of a hassle and is there somewhere I can purchase some sort of a jumper harness to run the factory GTE ECU? There's gotta be someone making those by now! Are the manual ECUs different from the automatics? Do I have to run a manual ECU or can I make thr auto work?
I've been reading up that the Aisin AR5 trans (that's dirt cheap and equivalent to the R154 but better synchros) and possibly Aisin AY6 trans (that's a 6 spd) will work with the 2JZ. I will be selling my 2JZE setup as well if anyone is interested) Any insight guys?!
02-11-20, 11:28 AM
#224
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GTE swap
You don't need to rebuild a 2JZ-GE to slap on a turbo kit. Unless your engine has been poorly maintained and is smoking then it's fine to boost it. Think of it this way, doing a swap is going to cost you around $2000-2500 for the engine, then you have to do all the maintenance on the engine, then pay someone to install the new engine, fabricate intercooler piping, fabricate downpipe and exhaust, and then wire it all up. At the end of the day you have a stock twin turbo 2JZ-GTE. If you get the itch to upgrade to a bigger turbo, add a full turbo upgrade cost to that swap as well.
All in all, to do a 2JZ-GTE swap properly with labor included is going to run around $6-8k depending on where you take it to be done. If you want to upgrade to single turbo, then add another $2-5k just for parts depending on how serious you want to get.
NA-T, well. You can get it done properly for around $5k in parts and around $2k for labor to install it. Unless you do it yourself. The stock engine can withstand around 400rwhp without any detrimental effects. Keep in mind, 400rwhp translates to around 480bhp(power at crank) and honestly that's more than most people will ever really need for driving around everyday.
All in all, to do a 2JZ-GTE swap properly with labor included is going to run around $6-8k depending on where you take it to be done. If you want to upgrade to single turbo, then add another $2-5k just for parts depending on how serious you want to get.
NA-T, well. You can get it done properly for around $5k in parts and around $2k for labor to install it. Unless you do it yourself. The stock engine can withstand around 400rwhp without any detrimental effects. Keep in mind, 400rwhp translates to around 480bhp(power at crank) and honestly that's more than most people will ever really need for driving around everyday.
I want a functional car more than anything. Also don’t want a straight line car. Back road driving is my jam. GTE swap staying factory might be my best option. Not a loud race car and to drive and operate like a factory vehicle.
04-06-20, 11:38 PM
#225
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I have no idea what will need to be done in the process of a GTE swap. Can anyone explain to me like I'm 5? Just need the straight forward necessities. Any suggestions as far as convenient and money saving avenues are more than welcomed. I'm no stranger to being elbow deep in an engine, worked in a shop for a few years. I w
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