Is a 2JZ-GTE swap truly worth it? Your thoughts are appreciated.
10-05-10, 09:28 AM
#76
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Really? Ive been told by many people and i mean MANY people that aftermarket pistons dont have the guides and such for the oil squirters.
In my GS i was thinking about doing the same thing till i seen my friend make 1000+whp on a GE block (not stock, just pistons and rods). Im not aiming that high but i hear people say you can make 800-900 stock GTE block but for how long is the real question. Either motor is gonna get you where you want to go, just slightly different routes. IMO you have a capable motor already just use it. Yes the tranny and ECU should be changed or upgraded. What you should do depends on your power goals really.
BTW Look here for more info
http://forum.clubna-t.com/showthread.php?t=2765
In my GS i was thinking about doing the same thing till i seen my friend make 1000+whp on a GE block (not stock, just pistons and rods). Im not aiming that high but i hear people say you can make 800-900 stock GTE block but for how long is the real question. Either motor is gonna get you where you want to go, just slightly different routes. IMO you have a capable motor already just use it. Yes the tranny and ECU should be changed or upgraded. What you should do depends on your power goals really.
BTW Look here for more info
http://forum.clubna-t.com/showthread.php?t=2765
10-05-10, 09:41 AM
#77
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Its not about the block. We all agree the blocks are the same between the two motors, with a few minor differences, but structurally the same. We all agree the OEM GE VVTi pistons and rods are weaker than the OEM GTE VVTi pistons and rods right? You do the swap, you get a better transmission ecu and motor. And you don't have to open the motor. And you can move forward when the bug bites you again. It will, trust me. I have a car sitting torn apart in my garage proving that. I want more and I won't have to go into my motor to get it. You may have a capable motor, but everything around it and inside it isn't. (Pistons, rods, trans, ecu, fuel etc. . . ) NA-T will always cost more to do the same thing a GTE can do.
10-05-10, 09:43 AM
#78
BTW Jeff, speaking of the "way Toyota designed the GE"
Like i said before the VVTi is a ELEV motor. The ringlands are at the top of the piston, to reduce hydrocarbons. Being at the top of the piston they are super weak. Toyota built this engine to comply to Ultra Low Emissions.
I wasn't joking, you can break the ringlands with a screwdriver.
Like i said before the VVTi is a ELEV motor. The ringlands are at the top of the piston, to reduce hydrocarbons. Being at the top of the piston they are super weak. Toyota built this engine to comply to Ultra Low Emissions.
I wasn't joking, you can break the ringlands with a screwdriver.
10-05-10, 10:02 AM
#79
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i was under the impression that older GS300, and SC300 motors were forged internals, only lacking oil squirters, and lower compression. i believe the IS300 is when toyota started being cheap, and used thinner connecting rods, and not making the 2JZGE forged anymore....but in my opinion, i would swap, you can do conservative power, and go crazy when you want to without pulling the motor apart
10-05-10, 10:02 AM
#80
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Quickgs300. Good for you bro. If we were concerned about non vvti then we wouldn't be in the 2GS section discussing a vvti swap. You are out of your realm. Stop now please.
We are discussing NA-T VVTi GE vs. GTE VVTi swap. Thanks for coming out though.
My car is a 99. Had to move 2 wires and add one. EXTREMELY difficult wiring whew. . .
Rriiiggghhhtt. . . 9.5:1 high compression. . . Typical honda turbo setup. Done a few of those thanks.
We are discussing NA-T VVTi GE vs. GTE VVTi swap. Thanks for coming out though.
My car is a 99. Had to move 2 wires and add one. EXTREMELY difficult wiring whew. . .
Rriiiggghhhtt. . . 9.5:1 high compression. . . Typical honda turbo setup. Done a few of those thanks.
Did you read the OP? it doesn't say anything about VVTi GTE.
Like i said you don't know non about FI !!! peace
10-05-10, 10:06 AM
#81
i was under the impression that older GS300, and SC300 motors were forged internals, only lacking oil squirters, and lower compression. i believe the IS300 is when toyota started being cheap, and used thinner connecting rods, and not making the 2JZGE forged anymore....but in my opinion, i would swap, you can do conservative power,
and go crazy when you want to without pulling the motor apart
and go crazy when you want to without pulling the motor apart
You're under the right impression. We're saying the VVTi GE's are weak....
10-05-10, 10:12 AM
#83
I love how interpretation of is being discussed on any internet forum is taken to heart. Albeit a little misguided.
That is great you say it isn't reliable and i would have to agree it is a HUGE reason as to why I went to Toyota/Lexus as I blew up my last car. The fact of the matter is I haven't seen anyone back up with any actual facts of a GE not being reliable enough long term. If they have and I missed it please kindly point it out. I don't recall seeing anyone post about the engine throwing a rod etc.
When anyone does FI on a vehicle of course you have aspects of the engine you must build up to ensure you maintain reliability. That is almost as important as tuning.
10-05-10, 10:15 AM
#84
Let me break it right down...just for you quickGS300
Original Post::
As our early model 2GS’s continue to climb up in mileage daily and those of us get the itch for major horsepower gains, this question comes to the front of my mind…
Is a 2jz-GTE swap REALLY worth it?
I would like to hear your opinion on which would be the BEST Bang for Our Buck option:
Either a) Rebuild the stock 2jz-GE, Then bolt on an aftermarket Turbo kit
Or b) Swap in a 2jz-GTE
Thank you all for your thoughts.
Original Post::
As our early model 2GS’s continue to climb up in mileage daily and those of us get the itch for major horsepower gains, this question comes to the front of my mind…
Is a 2jz-GTE swap REALLY worth it?
I would like to hear your opinion on which would be the BEST Bang for Our Buck option:
Either a) Rebuild the stock 2jz-GE, Then bolt on an aftermarket Turbo kit
Or b) Swap in a 2jz-GTE
Thank you all for your thoughts.
10-05-10, 10:23 AM
#85
Take a deep breath for a moment and relax. Without you knowing what I want exactly on my car, don't assume I automatically want to go to 400WHP. I personally would be more than happy meeting 300hp/300tq. I see no reason as to why it wouldn't run reliable.
I love how interpretation of is being discussed on any internet forum is taken to heart. Albeit a little misguided.
That is great you say it isn't reliable and i would have to agree it is a HUGE reason as to why I went to Toyota/Lexus as I blew up my last car. The fact of the matter is I haven't seen anyone back up with any actual facts of a GE not being reliable enough long term. If they have and I missed it please kindly point it out. I don't recall seeing anyone post about the engine throwing a rod etc.
When anyone does FI on a vehicle of course you have aspects of the engine you must build up to ensure you maintain reliability. That is almost as important as tuning.
I love how interpretation of is being discussed on any internet forum is taken to heart. Albeit a little misguided.
That is great you say it isn't reliable and i would have to agree it is a HUGE reason as to why I went to Toyota/Lexus as I blew up my last car. The fact of the matter is I haven't seen anyone back up with any actual facts of a GE not being reliable enough long term. If they have and I missed it please kindly point it out. I don't recall seeing anyone post about the engine throwing a rod etc.
When anyone does FI on a vehicle of course you have aspects of the engine you must build up to ensure you maintain reliability. That is almost as important as tuning.
BTW Jeff, speaking of the "way Toyota designed the GE"
Like i said before the VVTi is a ELEV motor. The ringlands are at the top of the piston, to reduce hydrocarbons. Being at the top of the piston they are super weak. Toyota built this engine to comply to Ultra Low Emissions.
I wasn't joking, you can break the ringlands with a screwdriver.
Like i said before the VVTi is a ELEV motor. The ringlands are at the top of the piston, to reduce hydrocarbons. Being at the top of the piston they are super weak. Toyota built this engine to comply to Ultra Low Emissions.
I wasn't joking, you can break the ringlands with a screwdriver.
ELEV engines are definitely not comparable in terms of reliability to the GTE.
Paper thin ringlands, dinky rods, no oil squirters on the pistons, smaller coolant jackets in the head, high compression, thinner head gasket + boost = just as reliable as GTE? I think not.
It's designed to be NA, if it was just as good in terms of reliability why would Toyota use a different setup on the GTE?
This is not opinion..it's fact.
Unless of course you're saying that Toyota's engineers are wrong? They could have saved millions of dollars on R&D if they had your insight....
Paper thin ringlands, dinky rods, no oil squirters on the pistons, smaller coolant jackets in the head, high compression, thinner head gasket + boost = just as reliable as GTE? I think not.
It's designed to be NA, if it was just as good in terms of reliability why would Toyota use a different setup on the GTE?
This is not opinion..it's fact.
Unless of course you're saying that Toyota's engineers are wrong? They could have saved millions of dollars on R&D if they had your insight....
Pull a VVTi GE apart yourself.. you'll see I'm not bull****ting.
Matter of fact, today I will look around our shop for a set of VVTi GE pistons and rods, I might even have some pics on my computer.
Also, like it was said before...Doesn't matter if you want 300hp, 400, 600, etc.... the GTE will be MORE RELIABLE because it's designed to handle boost. It's mapped for boost out of the factory, it's built to run daily with boost.
Look at the 2G Aristo's in Japan, been running for over 12 years strong on stock engines....engines that we bring here and swap into our cars. Can someone say the same about a GE NA-T? Absolutely not.
Last edited by Bippu147; 10-05-10 at 10:27 AM.
10-05-10, 10:46 AM
#86
I most certainly do not disagree with it being more reliable having a built setup that is is almost a drop in with the R&D behind it. I do appreciate the discussion in this thread though. I know that I can easily find GTE's to have work done on. I also like the idea of just bolting on a setup, relatively speaking. That is why Jeff and his thoughts matter to me here..
I would love to see some shots of anything you can find.
I would love to see some shots of anything you can find.
10-05-10, 10:56 AM
#87
now at the apu level:
-not a bad idea to have stronger and lighter internals than stock gte ones
-th400 or a r154/v160 should be the way to go if you want reliability
-standalone ecu
-fuel system has to be done at the 300whp level, even with a gte swap.
buying another motor and then building it will always cost more than building the existing motor you have. even a non-vvti bottom end swap it'll be cheaper than swapping a whole vvti gte motor at the condition you want.
na-t is a very viable route only if you don't mind taking the larger steps, or have extensive knowledge on how to build a turbo system properly. is it for everyone? definitely not. do people ending up wanting more and more power? most of the time they do. which route gets you to apu first? na-t does.
this topic has been beaten to death on clubna-t.net. both routes are viable and plenty of people have done both.
personally i would swap a non-vvti ge head for some sort of gte head because of the distributor; it does not look pretty even with it removed. however, i will keep the stock bottom end if possible.
Last edited by ElitistK; 10-05-10 at 11:03 AM.
10-05-10, 11:15 AM
#88
...................
I have a few questions.
Lets say I have a 2001 or older gs300,
1) is it better to swap a vvti-gte or a non vvti-gte?
2) If I did the gte swap, and installed the stock tranny that comes with some of the gte engine tranny packages, how much power will that tranny be able to hold?
I know jeff built a monster of an engine before, but I also remember him always rebuilding the tranny or looking for one that can handle more. So is it better to just swap in an auto tranny from a gte engine? and if so why hasnt jeff done that?
Thanks
Lets say I have a 2001 or older gs300,
1) is it better to swap a vvti-gte or a non vvti-gte?
2) If I did the gte swap, and installed the stock tranny that comes with some of the gte engine tranny packages, how much power will that tranny be able to hold?
I know jeff built a monster of an engine before, but I also remember him always rebuilding the tranny or looking for one that can handle more. So is it better to just swap in an auto tranny from a gte engine? and if so why hasnt jeff done that?
Thanks
10-05-10, 11:19 AM
#89
gte & na-t
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Let me break it right down...just for you quickGS300
Original Post::
As our early model 2GS’s continue to climb up in mileage daily and those of us get the itch for major horsepower gains, this question comes to the front of my mind…
Is a 2jz-GTE swap REALLY worth it?
I would like to hear your opinion on which would be the BEST Bang for Our Buck option:
Either a) Rebuild the stock 2jz-GE, Then bolt on an aftermarket Turbo kit
Or b) Swap in a 2jz-GTE
Thank you all for your thoughts.
Original Post::
As our early model 2GS’s continue to climb up in mileage daily and those of us get the itch for major horsepower gains, this question comes to the front of my mind…
Is a 2jz-GTE swap REALLY worth it?
I would like to hear your opinion on which would be the BEST Bang for Our Buck option:
Either a) Rebuild the stock 2jz-GE, Then bolt on an aftermarket Turbo kit
Or b) Swap in a 2jz-GTE
Thank you all for your thoughts.
Dude he said Is a 2jz-GTE swap REALLY worth it?
Not 2jzgte VVTi swap REALLY worth it?
How many people on the 2GS section have 2jzgte non VVTi in there GSs or IS
VVTI GTE and GTE are 2 different things if you don't know what am talking about then i don't need to argue with you.
Last edited by 99SC42; 10-05-10 at 11:23 AM.
10-05-10, 11:24 AM
#90
gte & na-t
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so it comes down to how much power you want. if you want to stay at bpu or perhaps stock motor with a very basic single build, then a swap should be the way to go.
now at the apu level:
-not a bad idea to have stronger and lighter internals than stock gte ones
-th400 or a r154/v160 should be the way to go if you want reliability
-standalone ecu
-fuel system has to be done at the 300whp level, even with a gte swap.
buying another motor and then building it will always cost more than building the existing motor you have. even a non-vvti bottom end swap it'll be cheaper than swapping a whole vvti gte motor at the condition you want.
na-t is a very viable route only if you don't mind taking the larger steps, or have extensive knowledge on how to build a turbo system properly. is it for everyone? definitely not. do people ending up wanting more and more power? most of the time they do. which route gets you to apu first? na-t does.
this topic has been beaten to death on clubna-t.net. both routes are viable and plenty of people have done both.
personally i would swap a non-vvti ge head for some sort of gte head because of the distributor; it does not look pretty even with it removed. however, i will keep the stock bottom end if possible.
now at the apu level:
-not a bad idea to have stronger and lighter internals than stock gte ones
-th400 or a r154/v160 should be the way to go if you want reliability
-standalone ecu
-fuel system has to be done at the 300whp level, even with a gte swap.
buying another motor and then building it will always cost more than building the existing motor you have. even a non-vvti bottom end swap it'll be cheaper than swapping a whole vvti gte motor at the condition you want.
na-t is a very viable route only if you don't mind taking the larger steps, or have extensive knowledge on how to build a turbo system properly. is it for everyone? definitely not. do people ending up wanting more and more power? most of the time they do. which route gets you to apu first? na-t does.
this topic has been beaten to death on clubna-t.net. both routes are viable and plenty of people have done both.
personally i would swap a non-vvti ge head for some sort of gte head because of the distributor; it does not look pretty even with it removed. however, i will keep the stock bottom end if possible.