GTE VVTI Head on GE VVTI? Quick question..
10-07-09, 09:32 AM
#1
GTE VVTI Head on GE VVTI? Quick question..
I've been searching reading up on all the NA-T threads for a couple weeks now trying to refrain from asking redundant questions. But I could not find a solid answer for this one.
Other than the intake/exhaust ports what all is different between the GTE VVTI and GE VVTI HEADS? I get all the block differences, but can you swap just the head without ecu issues?
Reason I'm asking is I want to go NA-T, not a GTE swap. But would like to run the GTE driverside intake manifold to make the intercooler plumbing layout less crowded and get the intake/tb away from the turbo location?
I know the bolt pattern/intake runners do not line up.
From what I read there are no cheap off the shelf intake plenums, just custom tiged hybrids like jefftsai was building for a friend.
Can I just swap the head to gain the use of gte intake/exhaust manifolds?
I read that all the intake/tb sensors seem to be the same and will plug in to the harness? So will the ecu and guages work with this swap? Or am I missing something?
I'm thinking there is some problem, what ever the issues are with the cars gauges not working with a GTE swap can't just be all based on the block itself, or is that a Non-VVTI swap issue?
Or does anyone make a full-on aftermarket driverside GE intake thats not a modified hybrid?
Thanks for any input!
Other than the intake/exhaust ports what all is different between the GTE VVTI and GE VVTI HEADS? I get all the block differences, but can you swap just the head without ecu issues?
Reason I'm asking is I want to go NA-T, not a GTE swap. But would like to run the GTE driverside intake manifold to make the intercooler plumbing layout less crowded and get the intake/tb away from the turbo location?
I know the bolt pattern/intake runners do not line up.
From what I read there are no cheap off the shelf intake plenums, just custom tiged hybrids like jefftsai was building for a friend.
Can I just swap the head to gain the use of gte intake/exhaust manifolds?
I read that all the intake/tb sensors seem to be the same and will plug in to the harness? So will the ecu and guages work with this swap? Or am I missing something?
I'm thinking there is some problem, what ever the issues are with the cars gauges not working with a GTE swap can't just be all based on the block itself, or is that a Non-VVTI swap issue?
Or does anyone make a full-on aftermarket driverside GE intake thats not a modified hybrid?
Thanks for any input!
Last edited by 99 GS3; 10-11-09 at 08:48 AM.
10-15-09, 06:28 PM
#2
gte & na-t
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By the time you do all that , just get the whole engine and do the swap.
Or just get the Gte ECU, Harness , head with Intake ,TB, the whole thing and swap it.
Just like when you are doing the 1.5JZ swap.
Or just get the Gte ECU, Harness , head with Intake ,TB, the whole thing and swap it.
Just like when you are doing the 1.5JZ swap.
10-16-09, 12:58 AM
#3
So you want to put a GTE head on a GE bottom end? lol
As quickgs300 said, if you're going to go that far you might as well just do the full GTE swap. As for running the GTE head on a GE block...yes it will work. It will even work with the stock NA ECU. All the plugs and sensors work just fine as is with the GE ecu hooked in. Only thing is that you have to extend the wires to length because the GTE has the manifold on the right while the GE has it on top.
As quickgs300 said, if you're going to go that far you might as well just do the full GTE swap. As for running the GTE head on a GE block...yes it will work. It will even work with the stock NA ECU. All the plugs and sensors work just fine as is with the GE ecu hooked in. Only thing is that you have to extend the wires to length because the GTE has the manifold on the right while the GE has it on top.
10-16-09, 06:30 PM
#4
seems as though you answered your own question...
"The bolt holes and intake runners don't line up."
Besides...the GE heads flow better according to most high power GS gurus.
This is similar to the guy who asked if he could just bolt a GTE exhaust manifold on and use the twin turbos. Can't be done, they made everything different for a reason.
"The bolt holes and intake runners don't line up."
Besides...the GE heads flow better according to most high power GS gurus.
This is similar to the guy who asked if he could just bolt a GTE exhaust manifold on and use the twin turbos. Can't be done, they made everything different for a reason.
10-16-09, 07:57 PM
#5
seems as though you answered your own question...
"The bolt holes and intake runners don't line up."
Besides...the GE heads flow better according to most high power GS gurus.
This is similar to the guy who asked if he could just bolt a GTE exhaust manifold on and use the twin turbos. Can't be done, they made everything different for a reason.
"The bolt holes and intake runners don't line up."
Besides...the GE heads flow better according to most high power GS gurus.
This is similar to the guy who asked if he could just bolt a GTE exhaust manifold on and use the twin turbos. Can't be done, they made everything different for a reason.
I would be able to bolt up the twin turbo manifold if it had a GTE head, though I only want a small single.
I want to go NA-T, no more than 400hp so from what I have read at those minimal power levels the flow difference between the two heads should not be a concern?
I'm learning, I've been trying to search absorb as much info about these cars and try not to ask dumb questions. But it's bound to happen as I'm still new to the lexus world
Last edited by 99 GS3; 10-16-09 at 08:29 PM.
10-16-09, 08:13 PM
#6
I'm not quite sure if you understood my reasoning. Pretty much the *only* reason I want to use a GTE head is to gain the use of the driverside intake manifold to get the intake piping away from the turbo location, and so the intercooler outlet won't have to double back under the car to get back to the stock GE TB location.
I would be able to bolt up the twin turbo manifold if it had a GTE head, though I only want a small single.
I want to go NA-T, no more than 400hp so from what I have read at those minimal power levels the flow difference between the two heads should not be a concern?
I'm learning, I've been trying to search absorb as much info about these cars and try no to ask dumb questions. But it's bound to happen as I'm still new to the lexus world
I would be able to bolt up the twin turbo manifold if it had a GTE head, though I only want a small single.
I want to go NA-T, no more than 400hp so from what I have read at those minimal power levels the flow difference between the two heads should not be a concern?
I'm learning, I've been trying to search absorb as much info about these cars and try no to ask dumb questions. But it's bound to happen as I'm still new to the lexus world
The best thing for you to do for 400rwhp, is leave the damn motor alone (lol). Your real concern should be the tranny. With a FFIM fabbed up and on the GE (and fuel to support), you will more than easily be able to make that 400rwhp at around 14-16psi depending on your turbo and tune. Want to go much past that, and I'd suggest dropping GTE (forged) internals into the GE assembly, and you've got yourself a basically bulletproof motor that you can throw plenty of boost at and not worry about it.
Realistically, since the only reason you have for using a FFIM is to avoid routing IC piping directly over the turbo hot side, it's much cheaper to spend 150 dollars on a top of the line turbo blanket, as this will reduce heat soak to almost nothing.
If you want to get really creative, member LexusFTW (though it was an SC300) ran a pipe directly out of his turbo, in front of the motor, and straight into his FFIM on the other side. In place of an FMIC he used a methanol kit. Personally i would suggest both, but it has been done. Not only does it put to use your FFIM, it also eliminates 80% of your piping and the need for an FMIC. The pros and cons of this setup can be debated until we're blue in the face, but the fact is there's much less pressure loss than with a traditional FMIC setup.
10-16-09, 08:28 PM
#7
So you want to put a GTE head on a GE bottom end? lol
As quickgs300 said, if you're going to go that far you might as well just do the full GTE swap. As for running the GTE head on a GE block...yes it will work. It will even work with the stock NA ECU. All the plugs and sensors work just fine as is with the GE ecu hooked in. Only thing is that you have to extend the wires to length because the GTE has the manifold on the right while the GE has it on top.
As quickgs300 said, if you're going to go that far you might as well just do the full GTE swap. As for running the GTE head on a GE block...yes it will work. It will even work with the stock NA ECU. All the plugs and sensors work just fine as is with the GE ecu hooked in. Only thing is that you have to extend the wires to length because the GTE has the manifold on the right while the GE has it on top.
Thanks for the factual insite on this topic! I do appreciate it. The plugs, sensors, and ecu was most of my concern.
What I'm proposing seems to be a fair bit less hassle/cost since my power goal is under 400hp? My motor is spotless and is in excellent running condition, a full motor seems a waste to me since I'm not looking to build a supra-gs.
When planning to go NA-T I would pull the head *anyway* to change the head gasket, so aside from extending the wiring and needing to get a GTE compatible single turbo manifold what else would I need to be aware of?
Like what to do about the powersteering and water pump/neck?
Thank you for the help understanding this swap.
Last edited by 99 GS3; 10-16-09 at 08:44 PM.
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10-16-09, 08:41 PM
#8
First, I understand your goal completely. So, i will reiterate. Just get a FFIM built. It's much more cost effective considering you'd have to modify the entire top of the engine block to use it. Again, the GE heads do flow better and the GE block, IIRC is stronger because the oil squirters in the GTE weaken the structure (i could be wrong here?).
The best thing for you to do for 400rwhp, is leave the damn motor alone (lol). Your real concern should be the tranny. With a FFIM fabbed up and on the GE (and fuel to support), you will more than easily be able to make that 400rwhp at around 14-16psi depending on your turbo and tune. Want to go much past that, and I'd suggest dropping GTE (forged) internals into the GE assembly, and you've got yourself a basically bulletproof motor that you can throw plenty of boost at and not worry about it.
Realistically, since the only reason you have for using a FFIM is to avoid routing IC piping directly over the turbo hot side, it's much cheaper to spend 150 dollars on a top of the line turbo blanket, as this will reduce heat soak to almost nothing.
If you want to get really creative, member LexusFTW (though it was an SC300) ran a pipe directly out of his turbo, in front of the motor, and straight into his FFIM on the other side. In place of an FMIC he used a methanol kit. Personally i would suggest both, but it has been done. Not only does it put to use your FFIM, it also eliminates 80% of your piping and the need for an FMIC. The pros and cons of this setup can be debated until we're blue in the face, but the fact is there's much less pressure loss than with a traditional FMIC setup.
The best thing for you to do for 400rwhp, is leave the damn motor alone (lol). Your real concern should be the tranny. With a FFIM fabbed up and on the GE (and fuel to support), you will more than easily be able to make that 400rwhp at around 14-16psi depending on your turbo and tune. Want to go much past that, and I'd suggest dropping GTE (forged) internals into the GE assembly, and you've got yourself a basically bulletproof motor that you can throw plenty of boost at and not worry about it.
Realistically, since the only reason you have for using a FFIM is to avoid routing IC piping directly over the turbo hot side, it's much cheaper to spend 150 dollars on a top of the line turbo blanket, as this will reduce heat soak to almost nothing.
If you want to get really creative, member LexusFTW (though it was an SC300) ran a pipe directly out of his turbo, in front of the motor, and straight into his FFIM on the other side. In place of an FMIC he used a methanol kit. Personally i would suggest both, but it has been done. Not only does it put to use your FFIM, it also eliminates 80% of your piping and the need for an FMIC. The pros and cons of this setup can be debated until we're blue in the face, but the fact is there's much less pressure loss than with a traditional FMIC setup.
I am confused by what you mentioned about having to modify the entire top of the engine block? What exactly do you mean, are you saying the headstuds don't line up?
Thanks for the help!
10-16-09, 08:48 PM
#9
The GTE heads, as you said yourself, do not line up with the studs nor do they line up with the intake runners. It's basically a waste of time to try it, and more expensive to make it work than to have a FFIM fabbed.
10-16-09, 09:26 PM
#10
OH?! Damn, I had no idea the actual block/head studs didn't line up? I see in my first post it must have read that way like I already knew that when I said the boltpattern/intake don't line up. I meant the bolt pattern of the intake, not the head.
Haha, I wasn't talking about attempting to do that sort of retrofit work! If that is the case, then yeah there is no way I would go that route. It's just what info I could find seemed to suggest the head did indeed bolt right up to the block.
I saw some supra info where people were putting the GE head on the GTE because it supposedly had better flow, like you had mentioned already? So it seemed like they are interchangeable?
Reading on random 1.5jz threads I saw all the combos being talked as bolt-on, 1j head on 2j ge/gte block and also visa versa?
And the most confusing part if this swap doesn't fit is how people are using a factory gte headgasket on a ge to lower the compression some, if the heads don't mate up ,then the gasket would not be compatible?
I think I'm lost. Sorry guys.
Thanks!
Haha, I wasn't talking about attempting to do that sort of retrofit work! If that is the case, then yeah there is no way I would go that route. It's just what info I could find seemed to suggest the head did indeed bolt right up to the block.
I saw some supra info where people were putting the GE head on the GTE because it supposedly had better flow, like you had mentioned already? So it seemed like they are interchangeable?
Reading on random 1.5jz threads I saw all the combos being talked as bolt-on, 1j head on 2j ge/gte block and also visa versa?
And the most confusing part if this swap doesn't fit is how people are using a factory gte headgasket on a ge to lower the compression some, if the heads don't mate up ,then the gasket would not be compatible?
I think I'm lost. Sorry guys.
Thanks!
Last edited by 99 GS3; 10-16-09 at 09:43 PM.
10-17-09, 06:58 AM
#11
OH?! Damn, I had no idea the actual block/head studs didn't line up? I see in my first post it must have read that way like I already knew that when I said the boltpattern/intake don't line up. I meant the bolt pattern of the intake, not the head.
Haha, I wasn't talking about attempting to do that sort of retrofit work! If that is the case, then yeah there is no way I would go that route. It's just what info I could find seemed to suggest the head did indeed bolt right up to the block.
I saw some supra info where people were putting the GE head on the GTE because it supposedly had better flow, like you had mentioned already? So it seemed like they are interchangeable?
Reading on random 1.5jz threads I saw all the combos being talked as bolt-on, 1j head on 2j ge/gte block and also visa versa?
And the most confusing part if this swap doesn't fit is how people are using a factory gte headgasket on a ge to lower the compression some, if the heads don't mate up ,then the gasket would not be compatible?
I think I'm lost. Sorry guys.
Thanks!
Haha, I wasn't talking about attempting to do that sort of retrofit work! If that is the case, then yeah there is no way I would go that route. It's just what info I could find seemed to suggest the head did indeed bolt right up to the block.
I saw some supra info where people were putting the GE head on the GTE because it supposedly had better flow, like you had mentioned already? So it seemed like they are interchangeable?
Reading on random 1.5jz threads I saw all the combos being talked as bolt-on, 1j head on 2j ge/gte block and also visa versa?
And the most confusing part if this swap doesn't fit is how people are using a factory gte headgasket on a ge to lower the compression some, if the heads don't mate up ,then the gasket would not be compatible?
I think I'm lost. Sorry guys.
Thanks!
i think i may be lost as well....as far as i knew they did not line up. The gasket would be the same i would think since the overall shape is the same, but i thought the studs didn't line up?
10-17-09, 10:12 AM
#12
Lexus Test Driver
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The GE & GTE heads and blocks are interchangeable. The GE & GTE manifolds are not. You must use a GTE style manifold with a GTE head, & a GE styls manifold with a GE head. I think that is where the confusion is.
10-19-09, 06:33 PM
#14
I think I'm staight on the head, mani's, ecu, sensors. My two concerns now what about the water pump/neck and power steering pump/reservoir.
From the searching I could find it seems that the steering pump is ok? I just need to relocate the reservoir? If so do I need a GTE resi or just relocate mine?
And for the water pump, from the pics I've found the radiator neck connnection is on the pass side of the GTE head.. The pump is already on the pass of the GE, do I need a GTE pump, or just the neck?
Thanks for any help on this!
10-19-09, 06:41 PM
#15
Although I am fond of using as many OEM parts as possible if they are up to holding the HP I'm looking for, and help it keep more of a factory look under the hood.. And it seems that the OEM parts of all versions of the 2jz are quite strong..