Performance Chips - The Mother Thread
01-24-07, 12:54 PM
#31
Pole Position
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: AZ
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So if I get the electric supercharger, and put 3 or 4 of these chips in series, then you're saying I've got an M5 killer? Awesome! Where do I buy?...
It's funny reading some the ebay feedback for those sellers. Lots of people claiming they can feel the power gains.
It's funny reading some the ebay feedback for those sellers. Lots of people claiming they can feel the power gains.
01-24-07, 01:13 PM
#32
Lexus Champion
Join Date: Feb 2006
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01-24-07, 03:09 PM
#33
Tech Info Resource
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Gotta love the azzdyno! I can't count the number of guys who say it feels better, but then they go to the track and run slower...
02-23-07, 04:54 PM
#35
Sorrie to bring up such an old thread. This thing came up on ebay as I did a search for IS350 stuff. Some sellers on Ebay have great feedback on selling these modules. I wonder what all the buyers are thinking. Does some1 on this forum have personal experience with this product? I know it does crap, then how in the world does the sellers get positive feedback. WIErd.
02-23-07, 05:03 PM
#37
Sorrie to bring up such an old thread. This thing came up on ebay as I did a search for IS350 stuff. Some sellers on Ebay have great feedback on selling these modules. I wonder what all the buyers are thinking. Does some1 on this forum have personal experience with this product? I know it does crap, then how in the world does the sellers get positive feedback. WIErd.
Last edited by Gernby; 02-23-07 at 06:05 PM.
02-23-07, 05:06 PM
#38
That's exactly incorrect. In theory, the resistor makes the ECU think the intake air is hotter so that the ECU will lean out the air / fuel ratio. Stock engines always run rich at full throttle, so leaning it out increases power. The problem is that modern cars constantly "calibrate" their fuel maps in closed loop, so the ECU will figure out VERY quickly that it needs to increase the fuel delivery again. It is less than worthless.
02-23-07, 05:55 PM
#39
Tech Info Resource
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This is why most unintelligent piggybacks don't work well with Toyota's TCCS. TCCS is constantly evaluating the a/f mixture using feedback from the O2 sensors. The evaluation process produces a "correction factor" that gets applied to ALL the fuel maps.
The idea is, as parts age and their ability to measure accurately changes, and as small air leaks develop over time, the ECM needs to be able to compensate. So TCCS uses a +/-20% correction factor to do this. The part that makes this hard for piggyback fuel controllers is the self-analyse and self-correct features.
Say you dial in a 10% leaner setting for a particular rpm. When you initially make the change, it leans out and you make more power. Then after the ECM reads the O2 values, it figures out the engine is running 10% leaner than it expects, so it adds back 10% fuel, and you are right back to square one.
The way the newer controllers get around this is by monitoring throttle position AND rpm. When the throttle position exceeds 78%, the ECM ignores the O2 sensor (the definition of open loop - ignoring feedback), and blindly applies the correction factor it learned while below 78% in closed loop operation assuming this correction is still necessary (which is a reasonable and prudent assumption most of the time.) Since the fuel controller knows the ECM is in open loop, it applies its own correction factor (the one you or your tuner decided it needed) and you get the leaner mixture you wanted from jump.
Some fuel controllers do better than others. The cheap solutions like the resistor in the IAT circuit do nothing useful, and under the right circumstances, could do a lot of bad.
The idea is, as parts age and their ability to measure accurately changes, and as small air leaks develop over time, the ECM needs to be able to compensate. So TCCS uses a +/-20% correction factor to do this. The part that makes this hard for piggyback fuel controllers is the self-analyse and self-correct features.
Say you dial in a 10% leaner setting for a particular rpm. When you initially make the change, it leans out and you make more power. Then after the ECM reads the O2 values, it figures out the engine is running 10% leaner than it expects, so it adds back 10% fuel, and you are right back to square one.
The way the newer controllers get around this is by monitoring throttle position AND rpm. When the throttle position exceeds 78%, the ECM ignores the O2 sensor (the definition of open loop - ignoring feedback), and blindly applies the correction factor it learned while below 78% in closed loop operation assuming this correction is still necessary (which is a reasonable and prudent assumption most of the time.) Since the fuel controller knows the ECM is in open loop, it applies its own correction factor (the one you or your tuner decided it needed) and you get the leaner mixture you wanted from jump.
Some fuel controllers do better than others. The cheap solutions like the resistor in the IAT circuit do nothing useful, and under the right circumstances, could do a lot of bad.
02-23-07, 06:56 PM
#40
It's sad how these sellers make easy money on these fake products and ebay doesn't do anything about it. Well, I filed a complaint to ebay to investigate this products. Let see what happen.
02-23-07, 07:07 PM
#41
BTW, if you have one of Britney Spear's pubic hairs, I'm in the market...
02-23-07, 08:49 PM
#43
What does TCCS stand for? Hondas have the same issue with ECU's tuning out piggy-back ECUs if they make adjustments at partial throttle. I always figured it was part of the OBD2 standard that ALL ECUs remain in closed loop under certain conditions. While working on my piggy-back, I've noticed the OEM ECU definitely remainsin closed loop at full throttle up to at least 3K RPMs.
02-23-07, 09:22 PM
#44
Tech Info Resource
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TCCS is like PGM-FI. It's the original marketing term for Toyota's EFI, it stands for Toyota Computer Control System. All of the old schoolers call it TCCS since it was the big deal on the original Celica Supra.