combfilter

iTrader: (3)

Whats classic is the price. I mean really think about what lexus drivers are willing to pay for exhaust and what companies are charging? most full exhaust on other cost about 100.00 more than just this "midpipe". Add the axle back part and you are back into the 1200.00 range. Borla, Joez, HKS, all charging 1200-1400 a pop for their exhaust. Its insane, when you know what is really cost to build them. Granted everyone appreciates the quality/brand association with borla/blitz, we all like joez's intake so I am sure he will deliver a quality product. Moreover, there is obviously many people willing to pay the 1200-1400 for a Lexus exhaust.

however, You compare prices for exhaust from the same manufacturer for other cars including bmw 3 series and you will see that they are all in the 800-900 range for full exhaust. Heck here's a perfect example. The magnaflow exhaust built for the rs4 (which production runs are probably 1/4 of the is350. Companies know that people that own this car can afford to be gouged on their exhaust). The rs4 magnaflow full exhaust is right at 841.00. We know magnaflow exhaust are right up there with Borla, and blitz.

Anyways, all that *****ing brings me back to the point that 429.00 for a midpipe you could get any decent exhaust shop (that has mandrel bent tubing in stock and a resontor) to build this for you for you would be about 250.

pS. before you say "well comb, don't you have a borla off road exhaust?" .. yes I do but remember I bought it on here for 650.00 in the classifieds.

https://www.clublexus.com/forums/sho...ighlight=borla

Joe Z

iTrader: (10)

But.. when I see this .... I cringe.... (looking at muffler welds and etc...)

Thank God you didn't pay the MSRP of $1,299.99 for:
"the Stainless Steel Cat-Back + "X" pipe, competition system. That is intended for off road use only."

What you paid in the classifieds for this, is accurate from what I can see below...

Gernby

iTrader: (1)

I doubt it could be profitable to offer a quality header back exhaust for less than $900 as a retail product for such a low volume car (2IS). The reason why some cars have exhausts available at such cheap prices is because of the huge volume (Mustangs, Camaros, Civics, etc.). Basically, we don't represent an "economy of scale", so we pay the big bucks.

combfilter

iTrader: (3)

You think the rs4 has more a of production volume than ours?? Way wrong. There are about 5000 of them produced a year @ $65,000.00 No way.

http://www.planetmagnaflow.com/shop/...16689-552.html
(even has an xpipe like the borla and joez.)

click on buy now, then add to cart to see final price. look on ebay, look all over. heck m3's have cheaper after market exhaust than us. Porsche even have kooks exhaust that are less than what people pay for our lexus ones.

Everyone i know that has (insert car here, including z06, wrx, yes mustang, 335i, m3, xpipe , hpipe, doesn't matter) cheaper full exhaust systems than us. It boils down to lexus people are more willing to pay for performance than others.

combfilter

iTrader: (3)

So what you are saying is that your exhaust (even though you are not personally manufacturing it yourself) is going to some how have these perfect bike frame (looks like a roll of quarters laid over) quality welds in that area? I think not. You are buying parts from companies that supply parts to the big boys or they are the big boys. LIke your cats (on your cat version) will probably be supplied by magnaflow, along with your mufflers. Your tubing can come from any numerous amounts of places. your exhaust I am positive will be a great final product just like the hks is a great final product and tanabe and the (insert exhaust name here). If i didn't have mine, and yours was around 800, i'd probably be asking when you are finally going to release it. However, your price point is what my point about the megan is. Heck it's a smart business move, make a product and charge about 400 more than the same product for other cars. The best part is that people are willing to do it. I think the only thing you have to worry about is name recognition vs. independent guy. You are not going to produce any more or less HP than the borla, hks high output, or any other exhaust with the xpipe / no cats/ high flow mufflers. Lets say a IS owner doesn't read CL or MY.IS and know about you. He see's that your exhaust is the same price as borla, hmmmm which one is he going to chose?? Even if he does, is he going to buy the JoeZ or Borla/blitz/hks. Do a google search for those 4 names and see what you come up with.

What i paid for in the classifieds is exactly what everyone else is paying 12-1400, the very reason why i brought up the price point about what the OP posted. Megan mid pipe for 2x's what it would cost you to have a muffler shop build it.

Basically this is a long winded opinion of mine that i had said before in previous post. ALL exhaust for the IS are way over priced if you really knew what it cost to make them.

OK I am done Love you all.

Gernby

iTrader: (1)

Combfilter, I don't know much about the RS4, but I would expect that a significantly higher percentage of RS4 owners would want to upgrade their exhaust than 2IS owners. Even if there are less RS4 owners, there still might be more RS4 performance exhaust buyers. Even if there aren't, I think the high price has much more to do with the fact that 2IS is a pretty young market from a performance perspective, so prices haven't equalized. I saw the same when I bought my S2000. Exhaust systems for the S2000 were even more expensive than for a 2IS, and they weren't any more expensive to make (probably cheaper actually). The best exhausts and headers for the S2000 are still more expensive than what we have for the 2IS.

If you've ever studied micro economics, you would know that only short term pricing is determined by what people are willing to pay (demand). Long term pricing is always determined by supply and demand. As demand increases, prices climb. As prices climb, more suppliers are attracted to the market, and competition drives prices back down. In a couple more years, I'm sure there will be several new full exhausts that are better than the ones we have now while also being cheaper. You just can't expect the price cycle to move at the rate you want.

Joe Z

iTrader: (10)

Love you all too....
My degree covers Economics, Marketing, Management & Finance

I will try & keep my post simple...

The entire exhaust will be stainless... including the 10 flanges...
The Welds will be quality and will have Highest Standards of Quality control... Mainly because I won't accept less...
It will be a full bolt on and ready to go system with NO welding required and NO leaking..
Front section with be a brushed type look while the rear sections will be Fully Polished.

(2) CAT's cost about $100 a pop so there really is NO profit margin there..
(2) Resonators are the best design on the market
(2) Mufflers will be oval and won't be cheap looking at all...
(2) Tips will be a dual walled with a nice oval design
2 1/14 Tubing comes from a distributor as ONE LONG pipe and will be mandrel bent with intergrated X design in house..
(Have you researched the cost of Stainless Steel tubing lately?? Its constantly increasing..)

You are comparing Apples to Oranges every time you mention HKS, Lexus HKS, Tanabe, Blitz or any Axle Back system...
The only one close is the Borla...

You can cut down on cost 5 different ways, make a cheap looking product and charge the same will you be happy then??

My answer would be NO..

Fact is that this product is designed with ZERO corners cut and with the backing of a Lexus Enthusiast along with the fact that it will be made to last and made to pass smog with the sniffer & visiual since it will come with secondary carb certified cats... This avoids problems down the road with SMOG TESTs for those who don't want to swap back to OEM in the years to come.
There will be a no cats version for those who want that..
Both systems will have the "For Off Road use only" disclaimer by default.

The CAT version will be in the approx 8rwhp range, while the CAT-less will be in the 10rwhp range...

Anyone claiming 15+, 20, 25 rwhp for a Full Exhaust swap on an IS350, is basically living a fantasy..

I am definitely working on a Price Target that covers the cost to actually make this QUALITY product and still keep everyone happy...
Trust ME when I tell you the profit margin is NOT going to be high when you take into consideration the acutal final product offered verses what is out on the market today.

Joe Z

Lextasy89

^^ sounds exactly like what i just had built.. only mine are 4" rolled tips that are circular and not oval

combfilter

iTrader: (3)

Adam Smith?? Micro/macro econmics.. nah never had to take that as part of my core classes at UTA. Might as well hook me up with some Finance quotesabout increasing shareholder wealther.

Your numbers are way off on potential buyers... hahah I thought they sold around 5k in the US a year. I was wrong! It's way less than that. About 1/5 of that. More rs4 exhaust potential exhaust buyers buyers?? I think not.

http://webpages.charter.net/parkhill...4_VIN_List.htm

I think we have more threads started per day asking about exhaust and intakes than there are rs4's owners.


Lets look at last year
1425 rs4's sold. which means 1425 potential buyers as you said
54933 is250/350's sold , which means 54933 potential buyers. hmmmm which one would have the most?

combfilter

iTrader: (3)

You did a good job describing your exhaust and Like I said, you are going to have the same HP gains as anyone else, and it should be dead on with the borla since it's basically the same design. HKS high power can be lumped into apples vs. apples. The others were mentioned because their name brand recognition in relation to yours.

You didn't state who you are getting your cats/resonators/tubing/mufflers from. I am about 90% sure you don't have the means to manufacture that stuff yourself (cept maybe the mandrel bent tubing), like the other apples vs. oranges guys do. The same companies that you are implying do not do a good job, are more than likely supplying you with these parts for your system.

Gernby

iTrader: (1)

I would be surprised if there are more than 100 2IS's with off the shelf full exhausts. It is a tiny market.

Joe Z

iTrader: (10)

Thank You and the reason for those Rwhp #'s is, that is ALL your going to squeeze out of a well built full exhaust..

Unless I missed some ground breaking news the HKS Hi-Power is another axle back exhaust for the IS350...
so its a nicely built orange in this case...

Look at this point you are just making assumptions on "where" parts come from.. So you will have to do some more research on that.. There are hundreds (maybe thousands) of companies that make all sorts of exhaust components.. Some big name and some small name...
There aren't just one or two or three... etc..

I for sure can tell you that none of the pieces will look like anything on the market already, plus it will not be built with any parts from the "same companies" or their suppliers...

Your just going to have to wait for the final product to see the differences..
The exhaust will carry its own official name...

Lets not hijack this thread more than we already did.
A separate official thread will be started soon...

Joe Z

carchitect

iTrader: (1)

Having seen the entire teardown of an engine in one of these cars I would have to conclude that there is a lot more than just 8 hp from a full exhaust system. I'l talking cylinder head to the exhaust tips. Its just a matter of how loud one may want it to be and how much low end could one tolerate to suffer?

-Joe

ExTrEmE99

iTrader: (6)

I would be interested in a JoeZ or whatever you call it exhaust system, depending on how loud it would be the price of course.

if its as good as the JoeZ intake pipe ill get one maybe there might be a multi- buy with the intake and the exhaust

Namir

To JoeZ:

Please make a header back system.

Love, Namir