No Spark or Fuel, what else am I missing?
08-08-16, 04:36 PM
#16
Thanks! I knew it wasn't the root cause of his starting issue but figuring that out ahead of time will help him once he's got his car running again since he's got to deal with CA smog.
I'm glad you identified the fuel pump as the likely culprit. I'm in agreement with you that it seems to be what his issue is at this point since the fuel ECU bypass doesn't seem to do anything.
^^ Definitely agree. This is the main thing to rule out at the moment, nsjuice.
The ECU temp sensor I might have jumped the gun on in retrospect but given the mileage on his car and the age of what might be a circa 1992 sensor it's good to check it out after the car is running again if there is any hard start when cold.
I'm glad you identified the fuel pump as the likely culprit. I'm in agreement with you that it seems to be what his issue is at this point since the fuel ECU bypass doesn't seem to do anything.
A bad coolant sensor could make it alot harder to start, but I would think it would start still after enough cranking, and work the throttle pedal while cranking can help.
generally the coolant temp sensor fits more with any misfiring when warm though.
Sounds like you have a bad pump but its hard to say definitively.. you could get to the tank and put 12v to the pump directly but I think that is what jumping fp and b+ does. since you know the fuel pump isn't coming on that is where I would start first then see how it acts cause if you did have a bad fuel pump maybe that was the source of all the issues by itself.
generally the coolant temp sensor fits more with any misfiring when warm though.
Sounds like you have a bad pump but its hard to say definitively.. you could get to the tank and put 12v to the pump directly but I think that is what jumping fp and b+ does. since you know the fuel pump isn't coming on that is where I would start first then see how it acts cause if you did have a bad fuel pump maybe that was the source of all the issues by itself.
The ECU temp sensor I might have jumped the gun on in retrospect but given the mileage on his car and the age of what might be a circa 1992 sensor it's good to check it out after the car is running again if there is any hard start when cold.
08-09-16, 11:31 PM
#17
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Thread Starter
Ran a resistance test at the fuel pump and according to what i read online as to what its supposed to be reading, it's shot. Hooked it up to a straight 12v source and nothing, then, a faint murmur and silence. Measured again, same reading, 1.6 ohms. Read somewhere it was supposed to be .2 to .3 ohms.
AliSc3, is this it? http://walbrofuelpumps.com/1992-2000...-cyl-3-0l.html
AliSc3, is this it? http://walbrofuelpumps.com/1992-2000...-cyl-3-0l.html
08-11-16, 09:37 AM
#20
coolant is going to spill out, either do it quick or just wait till next time you drain the system...
another option is to get a clean container and drain it a little bit from the plastic drain on the bottom of the radiator and then add it back when done.
another option is to get a clean container and drain it a little bit from the plastic drain on the bottom of the radiator and then add it back when done.
08-17-16, 11:16 PM
#21
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Thread Starter
So, I'm trying to install the walbro and it requires a harness swap. That means splicing and using two butt crimp that are supplied to connect to the existing negative and positive leads. Forgive me for the question as I am not too keen on electrical, but is it safe to do so being that all of this is going to be submerged in fuel? I'm thinking, positive and negative current into fuel would equal Boom when power is sent to the fuel pump.
08-21-16, 02:28 PM
#22
OP got your PM . If your question is about fuel pump wiring :
Take out the pump hanger and its wiring to do the work. Do not use butt connectors inside the fuel tank. Always solder your wiring connections and use heat shrinks that is gas resistance. As long as the neg and pos wires do not touch each other , no they won't cause fire. Gas is not a conductor and when they are submerged, without oxygen there can be no fire also since there is no oxygen. You need oxygen for combustion / fire.
Hope I answered your question.
Take out the pump hanger and its wiring to do the work. Do not use butt connectors inside the fuel tank. Always solder your wiring connections and use heat shrinks that is gas resistance. As long as the neg and pos wires do not touch each other , no they won't cause fire. Gas is not a conductor and when they are submerged, without oxygen there can be no fire also since there is no oxygen. You need oxygen for combustion / fire.
Hope I answered your question.
08-21-16, 04:59 PM
#23
Rookie
Thread Starter
Thank you.
OP got your PM . If your question is about fuel pump wiring :
Take out the pump hanger and its wiring to do the work. Do not use butt connectors inside the fuel tank. Always solder your wiring connections and use heat shrinks that is gas resistance. As long as the neg and pos wires do not touch each other , no they won't cause fire. Gas is not a conductor and when they are submerged, without oxygen there can be no fire also since there is no oxygen. You need oxygen for combustion / fire.
Hope I answered your question.
Take out the pump hanger and its wiring to do the work. Do not use butt connectors inside the fuel tank. Always solder your wiring connections and use heat shrinks that is gas resistance. As long as the neg and pos wires do not touch each other , no they won't cause fire. Gas is not a conductor and when they are submerged, without oxygen there can be no fire also since there is no oxygen. You need oxygen for combustion / fire.
Hope I answered your question.
08-29-16, 10:03 PM
#24
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Thread Starter
I finally got the chance to install the Walbro pump. It is a bit of a pain for a big guy like me in the back cabin with no seat/padding; my son helped and it made things definitely easier.
I had the 95 ECU (repaired by tanin) that came with the car attached and as soon as I reconnected the power and turned the key I could hear the pump turn on and my son who was out in front shouted that he could hear "water" gushing. Cranked it and the car turned on and ran as it did before it went out. Drove it around the block for a good 10 minutes and pulled it back into the garage.
I decided to hook up the new (correct) 92 ECU I had recently purchased from Ebay that I have no knowledge about. Here is the video:
I then re-installed the 95 ECU:
Again on the 95 ECU:
Idle still seems high even after the repair on the 95 ECU and temperature is higher than before parked (ran all day, AC on in 100+ degree weather previously with no issues). I am going to replace the Temperature sensor this weekend and report back. I am also aware, per Kahn, that idle may be higher due to incorrect ECU year (heated O2 sensor) as stated in his previously in this thread. Will also send the 92 ECU I bought from Ebay to Tanin and hope it is salvagable and not a total loss of 130$.
I had the 95 ECU (repaired by tanin) that came with the car attached and as soon as I reconnected the power and turned the key I could hear the pump turn on and my son who was out in front shouted that he could hear "water" gushing. Cranked it and the car turned on and ran as it did before it went out. Drove it around the block for a good 10 minutes and pulled it back into the garage.
I decided to hook up the new (correct) 92 ECU I had recently purchased from Ebay that I have no knowledge about. Here is the video:
I then re-installed the 95 ECU:
Again on the 95 ECU:
Idle still seems high even after the repair on the 95 ECU and temperature is higher than before parked (ran all day, AC on in 100+ degree weather previously with no issues). I am going to replace the Temperature sensor this weekend and report back. I am also aware, per Kahn, that idle may be higher due to incorrect ECU year (heated O2 sensor) as stated in his previously in this thread. Will also send the 92 ECU I bought from Ebay to Tanin and hope it is salvagable and not a total loss of 130$.
Last edited by nsjuice; 08-29-16 at 10:13 PM.
10-13-16, 12:56 PM
#26
wait what is the temp doing? your gauge is hard to see. its normal for it to be a hair higher then when you shut it off at full operating temp and then restart within like 20 minutes, the coolant isn't circulating so it gets a little hotter before it starts to cools down, it shouldn't be that noticeable though maybe a hair higher on the gauge.
I am going to assume you have a shroud on the radiator fan like stock, cause if you don't that can cause temps to go up pretty fast when standing still.
which coolant temp sensor did you replace, the 1 wire one goes to the cluster, the 2 wire one goes to the ecu (or do I have that backwards
)
last, after watching those 3 videos I think you have an issue with your idle valve. sometimes they go bad, sometimes they just get stuck and need cleaning and lubing, very often just the connector is so cracked from heat from the exhaust and people removing and reinstalling it that it doesn't make a good connection anymore. I have had a cracked connector that did similar, and also a bad iacv one time that was just bad.
the reason I say that is cause a cold car needs more air to start, and your warm idle looks alright around 900 rpm's or so. that kinds looks why it wants to die in the first '95 video and you have to throttle it cause rpm's are so low (I used to have to do that daily with no idle valve on one of my intakes), and why in the second video its around 900 rpm's (I would guess its gone bad in the operating temp position which is typically what happens).
also the fact that after a couple minutes the idle isn't setting back down to 650 +/- 50 rpm's and is staying at 900 either tells me the tps is not in the right position, the ecu has something up, or more likely its all working and the idle valve just isn't moving. So seeing as you have the other symptom of a bad idle valve (hard start and low idle when cold), I would personally start with the idle valve. chances are your ecu's are alright since you have 2 of them and one is repaired.
also I haven't heard of idle differences due to heated and non heated o2 sensors, I have run non heated sensors on heated ecu's and beside getting the code for the heater, it will idle like stock how its supposed to, at least in my experience with the 2jzgte ecu's. I would suspect its the same with the 2jzge ones as the heater is really a whole separate power circuit.
I am going to assume you have a shroud on the radiator fan like stock, cause if you don't that can cause temps to go up pretty fast when standing still.
which coolant temp sensor did you replace, the 1 wire one goes to the cluster, the 2 wire one goes to the ecu (or do I have that backwards
)last, after watching those 3 videos I think you have an issue with your idle valve. sometimes they go bad, sometimes they just get stuck and need cleaning and lubing, very often just the connector is so cracked from heat from the exhaust and people removing and reinstalling it that it doesn't make a good connection anymore. I have had a cracked connector that did similar, and also a bad iacv one time that was just bad.
the reason I say that is cause a cold car needs more air to start, and your warm idle looks alright around 900 rpm's or so. that kinds looks why it wants to die in the first '95 video and you have to throttle it cause rpm's are so low (I used to have to do that daily with no idle valve on one of my intakes), and why in the second video its around 900 rpm's (I would guess its gone bad in the operating temp position which is typically what happens).
also the fact that after a couple minutes the idle isn't setting back down to 650 +/- 50 rpm's and is staying at 900 either tells me the tps is not in the right position, the ecu has something up, or more likely its all working and the idle valve just isn't moving. So seeing as you have the other symptom of a bad idle valve (hard start and low idle when cold), I would personally start with the idle valve. chances are your ecu's are alright since you have 2 of them and one is repaired.
also I haven't heard of idle differences due to heated and non heated o2 sensors, I have run non heated sensors on heated ecu's and beside getting the code for the heater, it will idle like stock how its supposed to, at least in my experience with the 2jzgte ecu's. I would suspect its the same with the 2jzge ones as the heater is really a whole separate power circuit.
Last edited by Ali SC3; 10-13-16 at 01:01 PM.
10-13-16, 03:48 PM
#27
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Thread Starter
Yes, I do have a fan shroud. You are correct on the temp guage, it went down after circulating/open thermostat.
Two wire Coolant Sensor, is the correct one and yes, it was the one I replaced.
I think I must have misunderstood or got that info mixed up, about the Heated Sensors/ECU subject. What you are saying makes sense.
Hard start is gone. Starts right up now with no hesitation after the repaired ECU sat for a while. I'll look into the idle valve, TPS, and IAC. when warmed up it does drop but not to a low point where it should be, for instance, when I kick the AC, it does idle quite high. I'll try to put a video of that with better cluster lighting.
Thank you.
Two wire Coolant Sensor, is the correct one and yes, it was the one I replaced.
I think I must have misunderstood or got that info mixed up, about the Heated Sensors/ECU subject. What you are saying makes sense.
Hard start is gone. Starts right up now with no hesitation after the repaired ECU sat for a while. I'll look into the idle valve, TPS, and IAC. when warmed up it does drop but not to a low point where it should be, for instance, when I kick the AC, it does idle quite high. I'll try to put a video of that with better cluster lighting.
Thank you.
10-14-16, 12:23 PM
#29
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Thread Starter
Thank you for that.
I looked up TPS adjusting and it already does not seem fun; I'm not keen on electricals.
I will put up a video of it idling over the weekend.
I looked up TPS adjusting and it already does not seem fun; I'm not keen on electricals.
I will put up a video of it idling over the weekend.
10-14-16, 04:55 PM
#30
Sorry, to clarify what I was saying is that you should replace the TPS in any case, don't bother trying to adjust it because you can get "normal" numbers on the multimeter but it's actually spitting out incorrect voltages. In my case it was a generic TPS made in China from Amazon that was not a genuine Toyota part.
The genuine Toyota P/N is 89452-22090 (online about $75) for a 97 federal spec, you might want to double check the P/N for your year, but I'm pretty sure it's the same.
The by the book adjustment procedure can be tedious because you have to use thickness gauges, a multimeter with mini probe tips or a paperclip and alligator clip heads from the harness side, but basically the "close enough" position is almost all the way to the right - think "7/8"position or "2/3"
In short, buy a new genuine Toyota part and put it in almost the right with a little space and see if that instantly resolves the high idle. You might have to wait until it warms up and the ECU relearns, but yeah.
The genuine Toyota P/N is 89452-22090 (online about $75) for a 97 federal spec, you might want to double check the P/N for your year, but I'm pretty sure it's the same.
The by the book adjustment procedure can be tedious because you have to use thickness gauges, a multimeter with mini probe tips or a paperclip and alligator clip heads from the harness side, but basically the "close enough" position is almost all the way to the right - think "7/8"position or "2/3"
In short, buy a new genuine Toyota part and put it in almost the right with a little space and see if that instantly resolves the high idle. You might have to wait until it warms up and the ECU relearns, but yeah.
Last edited by ISFFUN; 10-14-16 at 05:52 PM.
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