2JZJAY

Does 92 sc300 manual tran fits on a 93 sc300

2JZJAY

Trying to swap from auto to manual

KahnBB6

iTrader: (5)

2JZJAY, yes, a 1992 SC300 W58 5-speed manual transmission will fit a 1993 SC300.

However since you are converting from an automatic you will need to modify your transmission tunnel opening since you will not have the factory manual car which has the specific transmission tunnel opening for it.

Your 1992 SC300 W58 5-speed was the style offered in 1992-1994 5-speed models. The later 1995-1997 W58 is the same transmission but with a different shifter assembly on top (aka "tripod") just for your information. That gearbox would also fit.

Now if you are doing this and trying to pass emissions in California you may need to obtain a 1992-1994 SC300 M/T Cali-Spec ECU. I do not know for sure if that would affect the numbers of your smog tests or not.

Manual pedals and the rest of that swap for any W58 into any SC300 is the same.

Good luck and welcome to CL!

freakness

Dude,



If you're going to have the car smog checked in California you may have to have the vehicle re-certified at a B.A.R. referee station because of the transmission change. That would include installing a correct-year 5-speed manual ECU. I would research that before committing myself, if it were me.




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KahnBB6

iTrader: (5)

Moved to Performance and Maintenance

Yes, I do think you will have to find a correct-year 5-speed manual Cali ECU for this if you are determined to do this in California which requires passing smog.

Your original Auto ECU will already have the Cali-Spec programming but M/T ECU's probably do have some significant bearing on how emissions are controlled between shifting with a manual transmission. For instance, between shifts and when letting off the accelerator is when your EGR system actually activates.

You will need to find one of these ECU part numbers:

89661-24320 1992 SC300 M/T Cali-Spec
89661-24321 1993-1994 SC300 M/T Cali-Spec
89661-24322 1992-1994 SC300 M/T Cali-Spec Toyota Remanufactured ECU (covers all three years)

freakness, I do not know if he does or does not need to go to a B.A.R. referee station just for a transmission change since, if he were to put *everything* to stock M/T configuration including the computer it is still a certified engine and transmission configuration that was offered in that year, make and model from the factory. Smog computers will have the option to see that manual drivetrain configuration for his 1992 Lexus SC300.

Now if I am mistaken and the 2013 STAR Smog rule changes have made it impossible for a shop to simply select "1992 Lexus SC300, 3.0L 2JZ-GE engine, California Emissions, Manual Transmission" when he takes his car in... then that suggests everything is done by VIN scanning now. And his VIN will show an Automatic transmission.

Then, yes, he probably would have to take his car to a B.A.R. Referee once it's set up with the W58 5-speed and correct type computer and any other little emission system differences Cali '92 5-speeds have from Cali '92 Autos (not really much as far as I know other than no TRAC system) and have them go over it and certify the drivetrain configuration with a sticker.

It's news to me if a manual transmission swap into a model and year vehicle that originally offered it was an option requires a trip to the B.A.R. but perhaps that's how it's changed now. OP, I would call a B.A.R. field office, tell them facts and ask them if this is required or not to be legal.

2JZJAY

Thanks a lot you guys .

KahnBB6

iTrader: (5)

It should not be an enormous stretch to legally convert to manual in your car in California. Unless I am mistaken it should not be as serious in the eyes of the B.A.R. as an engine change would be. However you should call a local field office with your specifics and ask, even if it's a transmission configuration that was offered in your car for that year.

Finding one of those ECU's is not the easiest task, however. They are rare. And you'd probably want to factor in getting the capacitors replaced once you do get hold of one to make sure it's in good shape.

Still, this is not nearly as involved as doing a B.A.R. legal engine swap.

lilxflip

What if you swap a V160 with the stock GE motor? Would you have to take your car to a BAR Ref?

freakness

Dude,


You can never declare a non-standard part for any model car to a B.A.R. referee. The V160 was only found on certain Supras, I believe, never on an SC300. They will never allow it.




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KahnBB6

iTrader: (5)

^^ Correct that you don't want to outright declare how a part is non-standard to a BAR ref.

The V160 was only ever offered on the Supra MKIV Twin Turbo (USDM 2JZ-GTE engine with EGR) from 1993.5-1995 and 1997-98 in the USA. For 1996 it was not offered in the Twin Turbo (Automatic only for '96 TT's). For 1998 the MKIV Twin Turbo in V160 or Auto was only offered for *SALE* in 49 States not including California (Federal Only 1998 Twin Turbo, though you can certainly register one in California regardless).

The V160 6-speed was never offered in the SC300 or the Japanese Soarer. Even the R154 5-speed was not offered in the US model SC300's.

The key thing here is an original engine and transmission configuration that was offered on a particular model in a particular year.

It's possible that freakness could be right that a V160 in an SC in California with an otherwise stock engine might not be allowed but there isn't much reason for it to be disallowed assuming all the right things have been done by the swapper.

The engine configuration would have to be either like a stock SC300 + 5-speed manual (1992-1997 configurations offered only) or a USDM 2JZGTE + manual.

The correct M/T ECU's used in either case are not smart enough to understand what manual gearbox is in the car. They just calibrate the engine control and emissions hardware to account for human manual shifting.

It's not worth it really but if someone *were* to make a stock, emissions compliant 2JZ-GE + V160 6-speed swap in California the car should operate basically like a factory SC300 5-speed does.

The thing that would most likely throw off such a configuration is using a rear end gear ratio that is too wildly off from those two original configurations. In the case of a 2JZ-GE NA engine with a V160 you don't have a gearset that is close to normal if you use the 220mm big diff 3.133 ratio from the 6-speed MKIV's or the cheaper 200mm 3.26 GS400 diff. In Japan, a version of the MKIV Non-Turbo 2JZ-GE was offered with an updated version of the 6-speed (V161) with a 3.76 rear end ratio (same as the USDM MKIV TT Auto ratio) to make this work. This was called the Supra SZ-R. It was NOT a configuration offered in the USA just FYI. That could make the powerband get closer to what the USDM SC300 M/T ECU's think the engine should be doing at a given rpm.

^^ No one has tested this at the BAR to my knowledge but keep in mind that the engine's emission control systems are what BAR referees care most about. And they are extremely meticulous about this.

I can tell you that you can have a non-standard manual transmission and pass smog though. I have a completely stock 2JZ-GE in my original SC300 5-speed M/T with Cali-Spec Emissions with an R154 5-speed swapped in. The gear ratio was changed from the original 4.083:1 to 4.272:1. And I used a Yellowbox V4 with a GPS speed readout to correctly calibrate the speedometer signal back to normal accuracy. Lexus didn't offer a 4.27 ratio on manual SC300's but the same exact 2JZ-GE + W58 configuration and emissions control design in the MKIV Supra NA's were offered with it from 1993-1996.

My gear ratio change probably has more impact on passing emissions than changing the transmission, but the R154 also has internal ratios that are not that wildly different from those in a W58 5-speed. I have not had issues as a result since it isn't a big change. The V160 requires far less aggressive ratios due to its design, hence the maximum gear ratio in the oddball 2JZ-GE + V161 Supra in Japan being 3.76:1. I do not know how well that ratio setup would mimic the first three gears of an SC300 5-speed when performing a 15mph and 25mph smog test on the rollers.

It's not worth it to spend a fortune on a V160 to swap onto a 2JZ-GE NA engine anyway. VERY expensive and an SC300 or Supra MKIV W58 is much easier to obtain.

Unless the rules governing BAR swaps have been tightened ever more in the last couple of years it really comes down to what engine configuration you have under the hood and that your ECU control and other M/T specific hardware governing the engine's emissions are present and working. And lastly a gear ratio that should be very similar to the SC300's 4.083:1 or a 4.272:1.

Now if you tell every single detail to a BAR ref if you have a non-standard manual transmission but have otherwise switched to a correct type SC300 M/T ECU for your emissions type and *YEAR* SC300... then I would imagine you'd lower your chances of them passing you. It depends on the Referee you are working with and how closely the configuration you've set up matches a stock SC300 5-speed Cali-Spec configuration in terms of operation but it is also their call.

However I did not need to take my SC300 to a BAR inspector due to my R154 being installed. My car is a 1993 SC300 original 5-speed (VIN reads as being an M/T car) with Cali-Spec Emissions and my engine is completely stock. That may have something to do with it.

This comes down to something we don't know for sure: If your VIN reads "A/T SC300" and you show up to smog with a manual transmission but have made the engine computer 100% compliant, does that constitute a potential fail and referral to the BAR so that you can re-certify it with a special label declaring it "M/T SC300"?

Engine configurations are most often what those visits apply to but this is a good question.

This is why I suggested it's best to call your local BAR field office and offer concise but specific information and questions to the referee on the phone about what you are trying to do. Some of them are more astute than others about how swaps work. Some of them are just sticklers for being robotically by the book.

Bottom line is that a manual transmission CAN be legally swapped into an SC300 in California (1992-97 models) because it was offered there in those years. But you have to use the correct ECU for this.

https://www.clublexus.com/forums/per...s-by-year.html

lilxflip

^^^^Thanks for the detailed response

KahnBB6

iTrader: (5)

^^ Sure thing. Please note that once you veer away from a 100% stock configuration that was offered in your year and model vehicle it technically does become a gray area in terms of smog legality and BAR legality... but you can see how the biggest focus would be the engine configuration and ECU tuning.

As long as the correct ECU spec is in the car (don't forget exact model year and emissions type for the ECU P/N) then as far as that computer is concerned it cannot tell the difference between a W58, R154, V160, V161, AR-5, CD009, T-56, etc. Also the rear gear ratio selection does need to put the engine close to the original appropriate revs for the 15mph and 25mph parts of the emission test. At least that seems to be the case.

However, if it comes down to a BAR certification visit then it is up to the referees. The engine configuration being approved and the ECU being for the right type M/T configuration should cover the biggest obstacles but it is a judgement call at that point.

Now once this argument shifts from a manual transmission swap with a 100% stock compliant 1992-1997 2JZ-GE engine into the territory of a *different* engine configuration (or engine swap) with a manual transmission, then it's an entirely different ball game.

In general: 1992-1997 SC300's in California, be they original Cali-Spec Emission cars... or Federal Emission cars that have been brought here (yes, those are legal in CA and can keep their Federal Emission parts)... can all be converted to manual transmission legally with some additional electronics.

But as a disclaimer I cannot say for sure if an original A/T car needs a BAR visit to be certified as an M/T car for regular emissions tests if the M/T configuration already exists in the system as being offered on those years of the SC300. Usually those visits would apply to any engine swap that differs from stock. Again, this may actually come down to how the smog station scanners are required to scan the vehicle door decals which include the VIN and transmission configuration from the factory for THAT specific car. I am not sure if it creates an issue or not when going in for a regular smog test if your manual transmission SC, set up with the correct ECU and anything else, has a factory door sticker and VIN that reads "A/T".

When preparing for any visit to a BAR field office for an inspection, however, you need to make sure you have done all your research and tweaks to get the car as close as humanly possible to a configuration they will like. They are very knowledgeable and they do not mess around.

As an example: Recently a member of this forum got a 100% stock USDM 2JZ-GTE engine with an R154 5-speed transmission certified at a BAR field office. The certification was as a "1995 Toyota Supra Turbo M/T". Note that the V160 is technically the "correct" transmission for this configuration but this was allowed. The biggest hurdles were in small nit-picks over the engine setup... which was, other than a front mount intercooler, 100% stock. The focus was not on the use of the R154 transmission in his case.

My last few posts may have been overkill on information and caution on the matter of manual swaps in California but I always feel it is better to be informed and armed with information when dealing with a state regulatory body.

Chances are, anyone trying this will be fine. The M/T computers are not plentiful but the configurations were offered until 1998. That goes a long way and allows it to be done 100% legal if an owner does the diligence to cross every "T" and dot every "i".

KahnBB6

iTrader: (5)

2JZJAY,

Today I got a smog pre-test done on my car and I asked the smog technician about this very question (whether or not you *have* to get a transmission change in a car that came with that configuration BAR'd).

The technician said to me that, no, you would not need to get inspected and certified by the BAR if you are replicating an original drivetrain configuration for your make, model and year.

If you were to change to a different engine or the engine+transmission configuration were not an original one then it would be a different story.

Given his response, I think you should be absolutely fine if all you are doing is changing to a W58 but not changing the engine at all. What he did 100% agree on is that you will need the correct M/T ECU for your car's model year. And if your car is a Cali-Emissions SC300 (which I assume is the case) then you will need the Cali-Spec version of the M/T ECU for your model year.

Start looking for one of those. It also would be a good idea to have whichever you find sent in to Tanin Auto to have the capacitors serviced unless this has already been done. Since you have a 1993 model, you will need an SC300 M/T Cali-Spec ECU from model years: 1992, 1993, or 1994 since they are all compatible.

89661-24320 (1992)
89661-24321 (1993-94)
89661-24322 (Factory Reman ECU that covers 1992-1994 SC300 M/T Cali-Spec vehicles)

1995 SC300 M/T Cali-Spec ECU's are not compatible with your 1993 SC300 Cali-Spec emissions system (mainly O2 sensors) even though they are still OBD1. Same goes for '96 or '97 M/T ECU's.

Reference:

https://www.clublexus.com/forums/per...s-by-year.html

sparko

i live in NY and i'm going through an issue similar to this with a 97 sc300 originally A/T but its swap to a w58 the issue is that i'm having is solenoid codes popping up on my obd2 reader i was wondering whats ECU i can use from all the years of M/T sc300? i was thinking i'll probably need a 97 ECU and harness (rare as hell), what other ecu could i use i really want to get rid of these codes.

KahnBB6

iTrader: (5)

Sparko, is your 97 SC300 a Federal or California emissions model? My guess is Federal?

Unfortunately it will be a little bit harder if you are converting a 1997. Only 120 97 SC300 M/T's were sold regardless of their emission spec.

Here's a thread to help you with identifying the correct engine computer you'll need:

https://www.clublexus.com/forums/per...s-by-year.html

I do not think you will need to swap the engine harness, just the ECU. Your TRAC system, if your car is equipped with it (probably) will no longer work since all manual cars had no TRAC option and thus no way for the ECU to control this subsystem.

Alternatively there are the 1997 Supra Non-Turbo M/T Cali and Federal ECUs... also very rare to find. In that ECU part number thread I was only able to find ONE part number for 1997 Supra Non-Turbo M/T's but I think in actual fact there are two... for Federal and California emissions respectively.

This would reflect the two 1997 SC300 M/T ECU part numbers for each emission type.

It will be an easier computer to source (while still not being easy at all) if your car has Federal Emissions.