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I just ran across this by accident. The ebay seller's (blaqlabs) oil filter relocation kit showed up in my suggested items email, and I clicked on "see other items" to see what other 1UZ stuff he carried. To my surprise, he also has a 1UZ-W58 adapter plate under the less than obvious (from a search keywords standpoint) title, "xUZ W5x transmission gearcase adapter kit".
The kit was listed at $225 shipped, but included the $30 oil filter relocation kit for 1UZ swaps. I sent a note asking if it could be offered without the oil kit for sub-$200, since lots of SC400 owners drool over the M/T swap and don't need an oil filter relocation. He responded quickly with a lowered price of $185 shipped, with the oil kit now as a separate item only.
I've got no affiliation and can't vouch for the quality, but it sure looks like a good price, and prompt communication is always a reassuring starting point.
Did you get it? If so how is the construction and most of all fit and hopefully no play. I would get different bolts and nuts. I like the flat shoulder.
Also any thoughts on flywheel and clutch assembly. Calls for internal hydraulic slave. Detail details
I haven't. It would be the only piece I've acquired for a M/T swap, so it would be highly premature. I haven't even settled on the W58 if I do go ahead with it, as I'm leery of a 25 yr old used transmission from a shared platform that seems to be very hard on manuals.
Also, the closest I've come to working on a transmission is a fluid drain/refill, so I would hardly be an authority on assessing the quality.
Well I has set a budget of 2000, Quick search tells me the biggest gamble is the transmission. Used/abused + service makes makes that 1000-1200, while a new one is 2200.
Flywheel + clutch assembly + hydraulics + adapter/bell-housing is what I am still working on. They are inter-related. I was exited about the bel-housing from Thailand, but not sure about the quality and precision of manufacturing (no returns). Flywheel and clutch would be unique.
Kits?
Share your thoughts and lets see what would get us off the fence.
I'm still watching the BMW and Nissan options develop to see if they end up more appealing. Similar cost and much better/newer trannys, but with more headaches along the way.
I'm also getting more and more used to the SC in its A/T form. It runs a heck of a lot better after shedding weight, possibly adding a bit of power (intake, manifold porting, exhaust) and doing the A/T 4th solenoid bypass, so I may eventually just do a Transgo shift kit and call it a day. I've never sat in a M/T SC, let alone driven a M/T SC400, so there's a lot of inertia to overcome in wanting to spend a couple grand and sort out a ton of nuisance items, without knowing if I'll even like it more.
there are a lot of variables, but not liking a manual SC is not one of them. that part is pretty much guaranteed if you like manuals.
You forgot the "more." I have no doubt I would enjoy it with a manual, but enough to justify the cost and headache? I don't know... It feels like a very big car, and I sort of like the mellow cruiser vibe of the A/T. Before the SC, I had driven exclusively manuals for the past 20 years and wasn't too keen to switch.
Edit: Shortly after posting that, I see there's a supposedly smooth shifting R154 for sale somewhat nearby for $500 OBO.
Last edited by t2d2; 03-17-16 at 11:37 AM.
Reason: typo, plus R154 addition
Speed is not my objective ... if it was, I would have reduced weight and upped the power. In fact Kahnbb6 pointed out that W58 would be the wrong choice, if I was going to up the power down the road,
My intent is that 3rd person would not be able to tell that some thing is non-factory ... down to fork-type clutch.
I have gotten over my ergonomic position of the shifter.
^^ Most SC400's seem to do just fine with steel plate W58's. The 1992-1997 1UZ-FE's wheel torque and horsepower are only just so much more than that of a stock 2JZ-GE. Plus, the power is still linear even tough it's a V8 you're putting it against. In good condition a W58 should last a very long time against a stock 1UZ.
Forced induction is where it's YMMV with W58's. It definitely hinges on condition and how you drive it with any kind of boost. The added power of the 1998-2000 SC400's seems like a gray area to me with a W58 but so few examples of this exist it's hard to say.
salimshah, I think you'll be able to achieve that goal easily! The internal boots of your center console will be the only giveaway unless you decide to swap in an appropriate M/T transmission tunnel.
t2d2, you're right-- any 1st gen SC is kind of a large car but you'd be surprised how at home the manual gearbox feels. I've only ever driven my own and truth be told I've yet to have a sample of any automatic SC as driver or passenger. The feeling of the size is there but both the W58 and R154 feel like the car was designed for them (which it was). Once you have an aftermarket suspension set up and an LSD the car handles more like a smaller, more nimble vehicle. It will still feel big but it won't act like it as much.
Either 5-speed gearbox? Totally natural feeling in this car. The R154 can be very smooth despite what many say but no question it has a beefier, chunky feel compared to the W58. Still very capable of being smooth in its own right, just not in the same way the W58 is. Personally I like how it feels but I also really like the experience of driving a manual. I wouldn't go all out to swap in an R154 unless you need it for a forced induction engine or more power. If you prefer the smoothness and comfort of the automatic then there's nothing wrong with that either
That said, if you've found an R154 for $500 and it's in good shape, even if it's an MKIII type I'd go for it. So long as nothing is amiss internally that's a very good price.
Either 5-speed gearbox? Totally natural feeling in this car. The R154 can be very smooth despite what many say but no question it has a beefier, chunky feel compared to the W58. Still very capable of being smooth in its own right, just not in the same way the W58 is. Personally I like how it feels but I also really like the experience of driving a manual. I wouldn't go all out to swap in an R154 unless you need it for a forced induction engine or more power. If you prefer the smoothness and comfort of the automatic then there's nothing wrong with that either
I'll jump in to disagree
The W58 even compared to trannys being built right now, is still quite smooth. It's probably just as smooth as my 350z's CD009 (but not nearly as precise) and its actually smoother than my Evo X's 5-speed. It's good. Very good. A little numb and indirect but smooth is a great term to use.
The R154 is.. like I have said before... comparable to rowing a boat through rocks. It's much heavier. I have a C's short shifter on my R154 (which made it more direct but even heavier to use) and it seriously needs to be manhandled just like a T56 or a Tremec 3650, if you have ever driven those in Vipers, Vettes and Mustangs. It doesn't grind so it's not like an archaic GM tranny from the 70s but you do have to "persuade" it into gear. This is especially true when the gearbox is cold and you are trying to go into 1st gear.
I would say its enough to justify a months worth of headaches IMO. I have owned 2 automatic sc300's and my current manual one. the autos are nice cause you can just punch it and go, but the first time I drove that manual sc300... I can't even describe the sheer joy of it, its like it went from a touring car to a sports car, and the power is noticeably different. the slush box soaks up so much power. on the V8 it would be even that much better.
My advice, stay away from $500 r154's you cannot test. go to used car parts.com and get a solistice AR5 sent over to you and grab the bits you need to convert it to an R154. you will get tripple cone synchro's that shift as well as the W58 if not better, you will get a low mileage (under 50k alot of the time) trans that is guaranteed to work and they usually go for $600-1k, this avoids the risk of rebuild and gets you a new nicer transmission at an affordable price. you can order the shifter parts from Japan (comparable to paying for a mk3 shifter extension which wont look stock), and as for the bellhousing and whatnot, those parts you need to buy for a mk3 r154 anyways, so that cost is the same on either trans. also its being looked into if this trans leaks out the tailshaft like the older r154 with forced induction, if it turns out they don't leak, well that is just a huge bonus you would get as well.
The w58 is buttery smooth, especally the remote shift version I have. people have been using them behind v8's for years, especially the w56 in trucks and they use those with LS motors and 4wd which adds stress and they hold up. forced induction probably not though then definately go with the R154. for the price you can get a smooth shifting w58, I would not hesitate to drop one behind a stockish 1uz with lets say an intake and exhaust, you wont break it. I run over 400hp through mine and its still alive.
The older r154's everyone says its like rowing a boat.. lol which is why I always advise people go with the soarer r154 (you can get it with a 1jz vvti these days for $3500 shipped and includes bellhousing, fork, flywheel, driveshaft, etc... all the part that add up when you get it seperate, then keep or sell the vvti 1jz they go for $1500 all day long), or go the solstice transmission route. for how new those transmissions are and you can convert it to the straight up and down shifter in the exact spot for a soarer, there is no reason to risk a $500 craigslist transmission, cause its not like its 2010 when shops still had parts for the r154 laying around, nowadays if you go to rebuild one they tell you they also need a good core, so that $500 instantly becomes a bad deal if any single thing in there grinds or doesn't work. I believe its referred to as "rolling the dice". when something takes a full day to install and uninstall, I tend to stay away from rolling any dice
The W58 even compared to trannys being built right now, is still quite smooth. It's probably just as smooth as my 350z's CD009 (but not nearly as precise) and its actually smoother than my Evo X's 5-speed. It's good. Very good. A little numb and indirect but smooth is a great term to use.
The R154 is.. like I have said before... comparable to rowing a boat through rocks. It's much heavier. I have a C's short shifter on my R154 (which made it more direct but even heavier to use) and it seriously needs to be manhandled just like a T56 or a Tremec 3650, if you have ever driven those in Vipers, Vettes and Mustangs. It doesn't grind so it's not like an archaic GM tranny from the 70s but you do have to "persuade" it into gear. This is especially true when the gearbox is cold and you are trying to go into 1st gear.
I don't feel like it's rowing a boat through rocks (that's hilarious though!) but I do agree with the rest of what you said, Intimazy. It is bigger, heavier, does prefer to be manhandled or at least shifted with a bit of force like a T56 or other Tremec found in GM and Ford and Dodge cars, and it does like to warm up for about 15min to full operating temperature from full cold before it's at its best. It had its original design in 1986 and the roots are from another R-series truck transmission (R150?). Still, I'd compare it to the muscle car gearboxes you mentioned more than that of a truck (in regards to gearing at least). It does like to be shifted in a precise pattern.
Also, W58's have a syncro on reverse whereas the R154 does not.
I guess I'm in the minority in forgiving its flaws and actually embracing some of them as amusing. Shall we say it's an acquired taste? ;D But in all honesty even though the above is true and different when compared to a W58 I personally find it fine to drive.
However one could make the case that all of the above are among the reasons Lexus USA decided the 1JZ + R154 manual were too "un-Lexus-like" for their lineup. But I feel it actually does fit the character of the SC very well.
Now a really worn out R154... that may be a bigger difference than I've described. Not sure. Mine only had 111k miles in stock form before I had it fully rebuilt so despite it being a 1989 gearbox it feels pretty good to me, with the above mentioned quirks ^^.
03-09-16, 10:04 AM
new 1UZ-W58 adapter option
I haven't even settled on the W58 if I do go ahead with it, as I'm leery of a 25 yr old used transmission from a shared platform that seems to be very hard on manuals.
I have no doubt I would enjoy it with a manual, but enough to justify the cost and headache? I don't know... It feels like a very big car, and I sort of like the mellow cruiser vibe of the A/T. Before the SC, I had driven exclusively manuals for the past 20 years and wasn't too keen to switch.
