KahnBB6

iTrader: (5)

Final post for the night. I wish something so simple were easier (parts lookup).

Can anyone confirm for me definitely that not only are 23250-46030, 23250-46031 correct part numbers for the 1992-1993 2JZ-GE injectors but also that 23209-46030 and 23209-46031 are the SAME part?

Every Toyota & Lexus EPC/Trademotion system I go into lists the 23209-46030 and 23209-46031 as the correct injector but frustratingly every forum thread I could find and every ebay listing for remanufactured/cleaned/balanced 1992-1993 2JZ-GE injectors all list the first "23250" numbers and a couple of these ads list the "23209" as a part interchange.

However... ALL Toyota/Lexus EPCs have no record of a 23250-46030 or 23250-46031 at all! Not even a "supercedes to..." designation.

So far based on my VIN it seems that 23209-46031 is the current active part number Toyota/Lexus systems direct me to.

And as far as I can tell, there were no special Cali-spec 2JZ-GE injectors from 1992-1993 and possibly also for 1994. There apparently are for the Federal and Cali for the the '93+ GS300, 95+ Supra and 95+ Supra though (23250-46050).

Can anyone please help clear this up? It seems like an error on Toyota's part but I want to be sure.

Thanks guys.

KahnBB6

iTrader: (5)

http://www.supraforums.com/forum/sho...6030+injectors

http://www.supraforums.com/forum/sho...6030+injectors

I *think* these are my answers... 23209-46030/1 refers to 92-94 Cali emissions according to Curt Aigner of SF. Great... so it's commonly thought to interchange with 23250-46030/1... but actually doesn't for CA 92-94 SC300's that will need a smog test. Sigh.

But that still doesn't explain why 23250-46030/1 doesn't come up in any Toyota/Lexus system.

Ali SC3

iTrader: (10)

I want to say the early california years like 1992 for the SC might not have had the air injection system, it used the same as the federal with the federal lower runner and federal brown injectors.

the air injection is that hose running from the IACV to the lower runner right below the injector seats, lower runners like that has the newer blue injectors that are shaped funky, so maybe thats why it shows something in 93 or later when cali passed that stuff. the rest of the country got that setup in 96.

your vehicle is a cali vehicle right? take a look at the intake maybe snap a picture, and check what colors your injectors are. there are only 2 kinds the brown ones and the blue ones.

KahnBB6

iTrader: (5)

Ali,

Yes, my car is a California model. I think visually verifying the injector color and perhaps a partial number is the best thing. Knowing there are only two brown and one blue for the non-VVT-i GE's helps a lot though, thanks!

I think you are correct and everything about this unconfirmed part number weirdness seems to support your theory that 92's to mid 94's used Federal injectors. It would make more sense that the air injection requirement was in 1995 because that's consistent with 23209-46050's being listed for 1995 SC300 Cali-specs and 1995 Supra Cali-specs. The only oddball cross-reference requiring that part number is 1993 GS300 Cali-spec models using them a full two years early.

Edit: althoguh come to think of it, I think 23209-46050's were for 93-95 Supra NA Cali-specs and not just 1995.

This afternoon I've been on the phone with Elmhurst Toyota and the injector remanufacturing place I saw on ebay. Toyota simply doesn't list a 23250-46030/31 at all despite that being stamped on many injectors. They only go by 23209-xxxxx. However the aftermarket company brought up a critical point: the 23250 is the number on the PART which is what they go by. 23209 is Toyota's LIST number which isn't the same thing as the number stamped on the part. Very confusing if that's true.

I strongly feel your hunch is right, Ali. I've had a bout of food poisoning last night and I might not be able to check the injectors until tomorrow but that seems to be the only way to do it.

Here's hoping Federal injectors were also Cali injectors for 92-94

Update: Success! Carson Toyota just confirmed for me that 92-94 SC300's, it is the same injectors for Federal and Cali-spec! The ECU's and third O2 sensor are the big differences but the injection system is the same just as you guessed : )

Ali SC3

iTrader: (10)

yeah its some wierdness going on throughout all the models. like the mk4 supra didn't start till late 93- early 94 but I suspect it might of had it in cali. gs300 and sc300 were around earlier so no telling when they did the change, it could have been a different year for each model. visually checking will tell you and there should be a sticker under your hood listing all the emission components that specific car originally came with down to the number of o2 sensors and catalytic converters, unless someone has already removed it. food poising is a tough one hope you feel better and if you cant figure it out just post a pic of the intake area.

KahnBB6

iTrader: (5)

Thanks Ali. It was a very rough night but I think I'm through the worst of it. Yeah, it's apparent that Toyota was doing just enough on each 2JZ-GE car for California emissions until they had to make major changes for 1995-1996.

I do still have my original emissions sticker under the hood. That's actually something I hope to change for the swap but sadly the TT OBD1 emissions stickers have long since been discontinued.

I think this means I am good to order a set of remanufactured "23250-46030/31" Denso injectors but I will check my originals first.

KahnBB6

iTrader: (5)

Confirmed. The brown injectors in my car are stamped 23250-46030. Same as 23250-46031's. So whether 23209-46030/1 was a replacement for the original type as many as two decades ago or if it is a case of stamped P/N vs list P/N, they are the same thing.

So Cali and Federal 92-94's all use these... even if Toyota lists them under the other number.

Now to pick up a set.

KahnBB6

iTrader: (5)

Update:

I got a set of the 23250-46030 Reman Denso injectors from Five-O Motorsports. New upper and lower O-rings. Had them installed today.

The hesitation upon starting is totally gone. No more stumbling startup idle until it evens out. No more random startup white smoke or smoke at idle after some driving. All of those symptoms are gone and so I'd have to attribute them to some fault with one of the original 238k mile injectors and the prematurely worn out plugs, cap, rotor and wires.

So with that done, there is still one lingering issue: a very mild but fairly common random misfire at idle. I've experienced this on both the temporary 1995 ECU and the original 1993 ECU.

The only difference being that after all the recent maintenance the car still definitely runs much better on the original '93 ECU, especially since the '95 had a permanent CEL since it was looking for air injection or heated O2's which my car does not have.

I haven't sent the '93 ECU into Tanin just yet. That may have to wait until the new year. Also, I'm trying to see what major suspects to look into for mild idle misfiring other than the ECU itself. I'm not entirely convinced it's directly ECU related since I've experienced it with both of the ones I have.

As before though, the car runs beautifully when you throw it into gear and make it go. Absolutely no stumbling or issues there. In fact, I can tell it's running better after new plugs, wires and fresh injectors when it's time to move.

Edit: Also, it's possible the remaining mild idle misfire may mostly be happening in cold weather. Have to observe what it does tomorrow when it's warmer during the day.

t2d2

iTrader: (8)

Glad the reman'd injectors worked out fairly inexpensively!

As for the minor stumble, my two thoughts are vacuum leak or the IAC is gunked up and not adjusting quickly enough.

KahnBB6

iTrader: (5)

Thanks! I'm happy too. It was definitely more reasonable than $900-$1200 for brand new injectors from Toyota which would be useless for turbo in a few months

Vac leak and IAC-V. I will check into both, thanks! The IAC-V is probably as old as the car.

If that's a culprit I would not look forward to buying a new one. Too bad I can't swap over my GTE IAC-V.

HiPSI

iTrader: (2)

Glad it was an easy fix!

KahnBB6

iTrader: (5)

Relatively, yes! Though I'm not considering it completely fixed until I've cured the idle issue.

Very strange, this one: bad spark plugs, bad injectors, and something else.

KahnBB6

iTrader: (5)

Well, the car still definitely has an issue that wasn't there before all this started. I'm posting a video below which shows a little bit of the cold startup closed loop cycle irregularity that has just manifested. The revs will jump up 100-200rpm and back again every 25-45 seconds. As before, this also "evens out" within a very short time.

-Also, the initial misfiring upon startup still shows up most times... and goes away by itself or after a light blip or two of the throttle.

-Idle once warmed up is usually mild misfire-free (but not always) and it does feel just slightly rougher than it should be.

I felt like I noticed the main symptoms with both the original '93 ECU and the '95 ECU with the CEL (due to it being incorrect or the car) but now I'm not so sure again.

Lingering things I'm looking into:

-Still haven't sent the ECU into Tanin but I did not see any obvious capacitor leaks or bulges when I opened it up and looked at the insides with a flashlight.

-Vacuum leaks. I can't find any obvious ones. Will keep checking.

-IAC-V. Still haven't looked into this but replacements are very expensive. I will take a look at the cleaning procedure for this.

-I'm wondering about the distributor now as a possible accomplice. Can these go bad or cause intermittent misfire behaviors?

-2JZ-GE NON VVT-i igniter?

Unfortunately I am running out of time to do any more major repairs over the holidays. I will send my original ECU out for inspection/repair in January but if there is some damage I was not able to see I hope it is okay to leave it in the car for now.

Additionally, it's looking like my PS pump has a slow leak. The high and low pressure lines were replaced with OEM parts not long ago. I am getting no odd steering behavior but I will look into this as well. I've been meaning to use my GTE remote reservoir parts for a long time now. If a PS pump overhaul is needed then I'll probably do it early with the GE engine still in the car. I'm throwing that mention into my post just in case it's related but I can't imagine it having anything to do with the above symptoms.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H0ui...ature=youtu.be

t2d2

iTrader: (8)

Here are a few things I discovered in taking apart and cleaning several IACVs:

https://www.clublexus.com/forums/per...ance-tips.html

I believe yours is the same part.

KahnBB6

iTrader: (5)

Thanks, t2d2. It wouldn't surprise me if it's the same part or at least the same internal design. I know the GE and GTE IAC-V's are different externally. I'm going to give your writeup a try soon if I can squeeze in the time.

Video link has been added above.

Also, I keep reviewing threads like these and it just strikes me as being a no-brainer to just pull the original ECU and send it in for service even if I can't tell whether it's the issue or not. I'm inclined to just throw the '95 ECU in for now and hope I can get it back soon.

What timing. Thanks, SC.

https://www.clublexus.com/forums/ls-...acitor-84.html

https://www.clublexus.com/forums/per...f-exhaust.html

Edit:

I threw in the towel and pulled the '93 ECU tonight and boxed it up and sent it off to Tanin. Should get it back in good time. After switching back to the '95 ECU I noticed the issues were much reduced. Not completely gone but significantly reduced and, I think, without the mostly present startup misfiring when cold.

I'm beginning to think both ECU's are a little worse for wear, just the older one shows it significantly more.

Next up is the IAC-V inspection...