Suspect my M/T ECU needs repair? (rough start and smoke condition) [MOSTLY SOLVED]
04-30-16, 03:46 PM
#226
And as for that electrical issue I mentioned in post #223 above I will check into the under-console wiring first and review all of my fuses. If the car is otherwise running just fine then those are probably more suspect than the alternator... although my car's alternator is the 80-amp original form 1992 (round connector).
If anything there needs to be replaced I'd prefer to upgrade to a 100 amp TT alternator at the very least. I have already bought the modern gray oval type connector and three leads with little rubber seals just in case.
If anything there needs to be replaced I'd prefer to upgrade to a 100 amp TT alternator at the very least. I have already bought the modern gray oval type connector and three leads with little rubber seals just in case.
05-01-16, 04:19 AM
#227
Yeah .. with so many stuff that had been replaced , it might be tough to determine which exactly was the culprit . It could have been also caused by more than one part. Glad things had been sorted out now for you.
That is the problem with these old cars. Imagine a non fanatic having to go through all those troubles you have been through. Getting this kind of car to a shop and get it to where it would pass DMV required tests might have cost someone a fortune so he or she probably will just opt in selling it for nothing. That is one of the many reasons why their values are down the drain , kinda pricey to maintain for someone who do not turn a wrench ... being a Lexus.
And with so many of these cars being for sale at a cheap price, if they really like the same car , they probably can just buy another running SC for what they have to spend on it .
In stock form , not unless it is an original 5 speed , I really don't see the values of these cars ever going higher . But I hope I am wrong. The SC400s , I see them almost given away with the prices they are sold since they are costlier to maintain and consume more fuel per mile. The SC300, since people know they can at least go to an NA-T route or have more similarities with the MKIV NA drivetrain, they seem to have better prices. But how many are really into performance and willing to spend on the right mods ? Heck , even stock SCs , you see people bastardize them instead of returning them in their stock form. In my opinion, a modification should not only improve function but also maintain the good looks of the damn car. Some people seem to pretend to know better than the Lexus Engineers who designed these SCs just to justify what they put on their SC now a days
. Again I guess this happens in all cars whose entry price gets cheaper as they get older. Well I am not saying everyone is like that with their SCs cause you see a lot of people here who value their SCs and only put the best on them ... my hat off for them.
Look for instance at a MKIV , their starting prices are high even if old by now, and yet their new owners USUALLY (but not all the time) would only want to put the best parts on them just because they try to value it better having spent a lot of money to start with on the car. Classic example is Juan (FSUsucks1) here... he spent $45k on the car and the small parts for minor mods he is installing now am pretty sure is costing him another $5-8k for materials and labor.
I understand not everyone is financially able to spend and mod our SCs. But I hope people at least put them back to stock form instead of installing cheap and ugly parts that is if we at least want people to still admire our beloved SCs . Lexus had spent tons of money on R&D on the SC . It is a nice car as it is even if it is almost a 25 year old car. It is a car way ahead of its times with its features. But to see people bastardize them seeing what they put on the SC at times just makes me shake my head and wonder whether I am still on clublexus or another honda civic site. At times I tend to believe that people has the wrong car to start with and they got the SC just because it was cheap and is a kin to the beloved MKIV.
That is the problem with these old cars. Imagine a non fanatic having to go through all those troubles you have been through. Getting this kind of car to a shop and get it to where it would pass DMV required tests might have cost someone a fortune so he or she probably will just opt in selling it for nothing. That is one of the many reasons why their values are down the drain , kinda pricey to maintain for someone who do not turn a wrench ... being a Lexus.
And with so many of these cars being for sale at a cheap price, if they really like the same car , they probably can just buy another running SC for what they have to spend on it .
In stock form , not unless it is an original 5 speed , I really don't see the values of these cars ever going higher . But I hope I am wrong. The SC400s , I see them almost given away with the prices they are sold since they are costlier to maintain and consume more fuel per mile. The SC300, since people know they can at least go to an NA-T route or have more similarities with the MKIV NA drivetrain, they seem to have better prices. But how many are really into performance and willing to spend on the right mods ? Heck , even stock SCs , you see people bastardize them instead of returning them in their stock form. In my opinion, a modification should not only improve function but also maintain the good looks of the damn car. Some people seem to pretend to know better than the Lexus Engineers who designed these SCs just to justify what they put on their SC now a days
. Again I guess this happens in all cars whose entry price gets cheaper as they get older. Well I am not saying everyone is like that with their SCs cause you see a lot of people here who value their SCs and only put the best on them ... my hat off for them.Look for instance at a MKIV , their starting prices are high even if old by now, and yet their new owners USUALLY (but not all the time) would only want to put the best parts on them just because they try to value it better having spent a lot of money to start with on the car. Classic example is Juan (FSUsucks1) here... he spent $45k on the car and the small parts for minor mods he is installing now am pretty sure is costing him another $5-8k for materials and labor.
I understand not everyone is financially able to spend and mod our SCs. But I hope people at least put them back to stock form instead of installing cheap and ugly parts that is if we at least want people to still admire our beloved SCs . Lexus had spent tons of money on R&D on the SC . It is a nice car as it is even if it is almost a 25 year old car. It is a car way ahead of its times with its features. But to see people bastardize them seeing what they put on the SC at times just makes me shake my head and wonder whether I am still on clublexus or another honda civic site. At times I tend to believe that people has the wrong car to start with and they got the SC just because it was cheap and is a kin to the beloved MKIV.
Last edited by gerrb; 05-01-16 at 12:39 PM.
05-01-16, 03:18 PM
#228
Thanks Gerry! You too can't be sure what the original cause was based on what we know. I do think at least the EGR VSV and EGR Vacuum modulator *could* have gone bad on their own but it is funny that in all the years I've owned the car I'd never had an EGR system issue until recently.
Yes... I imagine not everyone would be as determined as I have been to get the car fixed at any cost. And cost is a big factor as to why I did a lot of the work myself. Some of the parts alone were enough when they were needed one after another. Taking it to a shop under these circumstances would have cost far more than it has already. You have a very strong point on that :/
......
As to the SC value dilemma... I don't disagree with what you've observed. You own a couple of MKIV's AND a couple of built SC's. I imagine you aren't interested in letting the SC's go because you like them but were you to ever list any of them for sale at a reasonable price given the work done to them (not near MKIV money of course) it would be a challenge, I'd imagine.
Mine being an original 5-speed may or may not mean something. I've tried to keep it modified with as many Toyota/Lexus and MKIV parts as possible. What few aftermarket parts I have used I've tried to keep up to a high standard as well. Cosmetic restoration I've kept 99% factory.
I've said before that I feel "reasonable" with modified SC's built properly for turbo should at least match the rest of the used market for other older performance coupes that are RWD, 2+2, have independent rear suspension, 300hp+, factory style engine that is very capable to tune like an American V8, manual transmission, available LSD, full original interiors. To me that's reasonable (ignoring the MKIV relation)... but you're right. The market is what it is.
.......
Not everyone is financially able to repair these cars as they are in factory condition and in their defense, Toyota doesn't always make it easy for them to do so in some cases despite how straightforward it is to work on the 2JZ-GE and the SC chassis in general. I've seen all manner of older niche vehicles be treated to factory restoration and cheap fixes and weird modification alike.
The current entry price for SC's probably have a lot to do with that.
FSUsucks1, you and other MKIV owners here and on SF do make up part of a dedicated group of Supra enthusiasts. And in the SC camp there are many of us here, you included, who treat their Lexus coupes as what they are: classic cars.
.......
I don't like to see them bastardized either. I also don't see the point in stripping out all the weight possible unless someone is building a trailered track car with a full roll cage. Other than Cali emissions states (CA, NYC, etc.) NA-T and GTE swaps, even 1JZ's, should be the goal.
Lexus intentionally crippled the SC from the factory for various reasons. If the 1JZ-GTE Auto and 1JZ-GTE R154 versions and Torsen LSD had all been available on these cars to begin with in the USA I do not think we would be having this conversation.
The only thing that might change this is possibly the rarity of some original trim levels over time, rare quality performance conversions (we'll see), and a larger pool of these cars eventually being turbocharged performance conversions rather than garden variety 100% original Lexus SC's. So long as they aren't done up like many 80's Camaros.
Usually 100% original is valued for more in older classics but unlike their Soarer brethren I think the opposite applies to many of the SC300's especially. To me, the more right performance hardware that is on the vehicle, considering how hard it is to find some of that hardware today, makes it more valuable.
The depressed market does make getting one of these in your driveway fairly easy and affordable. It does not make maintaining one more affordable or building one into the proper sports GT it was designed to be in Japan more affordable.
.......
My previous car, a Prelude, was truly incapable of being improved or turned into a real sports machine with performance. And the market for those is depressed and the maintenance required can at times approach the maintenance required on a 2JZ-GE. For a little high-revving 200hp/156ft-lb 2.2L 4cyl engine that can't handle a turbocharger without breaking something expensive. And that gets 16-17 mpg city. In a 3000lb-3100lb FWD chassis.
I won't waste my time with a limited "sports" car like that again. The SC is different. It is not a hardcore machine. It is a luxury GT sports car that actually delivers once a few things have been changed. It has always delivered in the looks department in 100% stock form. The design is beautiful. I'll give that to the Prelude I owned too (looks were very good) but the SC300 is far, far superior.
The drivetrain in the SC, however... that is a unicorn in the luxury car world. That actually CAN be built into hardcore hardware.
Normal looking timeless Lexus coupe. Ridiculous racing engine under the hood. I have always thought that was one of the primary second-market allures of these cars.
SC's may be older now and suffer from a badly depressed market but they at least can be much more than what they were off the showroom floor. Repairing things on mine may have been a nightmare on occasion and it still may be a fairly "slow" car but I still like it a lot in looks and in how it drives. There is only one car I've owned previously that I loved even more than the SC and the build quality, handling, safety, reliability and comfort on that model doesn't compare.
Rock and a hard place with these cars. For my part, I knew what I bought from the beginning and prefer to keep it and eventually be able to afford a second car to put alongside it. I do want to get an appraisal and different insurance coverage for classic status eventually but selling the thing isn't something I want to do.
In 2010 when I bought it I knew I was buying a classic car. Having owned a similarly old classic car some time ago I knew what I was getting into.
....
At this very moment I need a financial break from projects for a couple of months but so long as my car can now get re-registered again and life can move on I am happy.
I promised myself I'd write a short reply post. So much for that, ha!
Yes... I imagine not everyone would be as determined as I have been to get the car fixed at any cost. And cost is a big factor as to why I did a lot of the work myself. Some of the parts alone were enough when they were needed one after another. Taking it to a shop under these circumstances would have cost far more than it has already. You have a very strong point on that :/
......
As to the SC value dilemma... I don't disagree with what you've observed. You own a couple of MKIV's AND a couple of built SC's. I imagine you aren't interested in letting the SC's go because you like them but were you to ever list any of them for sale at a reasonable price given the work done to them (not near MKIV money of course) it would be a challenge, I'd imagine.
Mine being an original 5-speed may or may not mean something. I've tried to keep it modified with as many Toyota/Lexus and MKIV parts as possible. What few aftermarket parts I have used I've tried to keep up to a high standard as well. Cosmetic restoration I've kept 99% factory.
I've said before that I feel "reasonable" with modified SC's built properly for turbo should at least match the rest of the used market for other older performance coupes that are RWD, 2+2, have independent rear suspension, 300hp+, factory style engine that is very capable to tune like an American V8, manual transmission, available LSD, full original interiors. To me that's reasonable (ignoring the MKIV relation)... but you're right. The market is what it is.
.......
Not everyone is financially able to repair these cars as they are in factory condition and in their defense, Toyota doesn't always make it easy for them to do so in some cases despite how straightforward it is to work on the 2JZ-GE and the SC chassis in general. I've seen all manner of older niche vehicles be treated to factory restoration and cheap fixes and weird modification alike.
The current entry price for SC's probably have a lot to do with that.
FSUsucks1, you and other MKIV owners here and on SF do make up part of a dedicated group of Supra enthusiasts. And in the SC camp there are many of us here, you included, who treat their Lexus coupes as what they are: classic cars.
.......
I don't like to see them bastardized either. I also don't see the point in stripping out all the weight possible unless someone is building a trailered track car with a full roll cage. Other than Cali emissions states (CA, NYC, etc.) NA-T and GTE swaps, even 1JZ's, should be the goal.
Lexus intentionally crippled the SC from the factory for various reasons. If the 1JZ-GTE Auto and 1JZ-GTE R154 versions and Torsen LSD had all been available on these cars to begin with in the USA I do not think we would be having this conversation.
The only thing that might change this is possibly the rarity of some original trim levels over time, rare quality performance conversions (we'll see), and a larger pool of these cars eventually being turbocharged performance conversions rather than garden variety 100% original Lexus SC's. So long as they aren't done up like many 80's Camaros.
Usually 100% original is valued for more in older classics but unlike their Soarer brethren I think the opposite applies to many of the SC300's especially. To me, the more right performance hardware that is on the vehicle, considering how hard it is to find some of that hardware today, makes it more valuable.
The depressed market does make getting one of these in your driveway fairly easy and affordable. It does not make maintaining one more affordable or building one into the proper sports GT it was designed to be in Japan more affordable.
.......
My previous car, a Prelude, was truly incapable of being improved or turned into a real sports machine with performance. And the market for those is depressed and the maintenance required can at times approach the maintenance required on a 2JZ-GE. For a little high-revving 200hp/156ft-lb 2.2L 4cyl engine that can't handle a turbocharger without breaking something expensive. And that gets 16-17 mpg city. In a 3000lb-3100lb FWD chassis.
I won't waste my time with a limited "sports" car like that again. The SC is different. It is not a hardcore machine. It is a luxury GT sports car that actually delivers once a few things have been changed. It has always delivered in the looks department in 100% stock form. The design is beautiful. I'll give that to the Prelude I owned too (looks were very good) but the SC300 is far, far superior.
The drivetrain in the SC, however... that is a unicorn in the luxury car world. That actually CAN be built into hardcore hardware.
Normal looking timeless Lexus coupe. Ridiculous racing engine under the hood. I have always thought that was one of the primary second-market allures of these cars.
SC's may be older now and suffer from a badly depressed market but they at least can be much more than what they were off the showroom floor. Repairing things on mine may have been a nightmare on occasion and it still may be a fairly "slow" car but I still like it a lot in looks and in how it drives. There is only one car I've owned previously that I loved even more than the SC and the build quality, handling, safety, reliability and comfort on that model doesn't compare.
Rock and a hard place with these cars. For my part, I knew what I bought from the beginning and prefer to keep it and eventually be able to afford a second car to put alongside it. I do want to get an appraisal and different insurance coverage for classic status eventually but selling the thing isn't something I want to do.
In 2010 when I bought it I knew I was buying a classic car. Having owned a similarly old classic car some time ago I knew what I was getting into.
....
At this very moment I need a financial break from projects for a couple of months but so long as my car can now get re-registered again and life can move on I am happy.
I promised myself I'd write a short reply post. So much for that, ha!
Last edited by KahnBB6; 05-02-16 at 01:57 AM. Reason: Cleaned up and revised long extemporaneous post.
05-02-16, 04:10 AM
#229
As to the SC value dilemma... I don't disagree with what you've observed. You own a couple of MKIV's AND a couple of built SC's. I imagine you aren't interested in letting the SC's go because you like them but were you to ever list any of them for sale at a reasonable price given the work done to them (not near MKIV money of course) it would be a challenge, I'd imagine.
. And be left with one of my stroker 6 speed MKIVs . The rest have to go at one point in time.Mine being an original 5-speed may or may not mean something. I've tried to keep it modified with as many Toyota/Lexus and MKIV parts as possible. What few aftermarket parts I have used I've tried to keep up to a high standard as well. Cosmetic restoration I've kept 99% factory.
cause you ain't getting back your money .Not everyone is financially able to repair these cars as they are in factory condition and in their defense, Toyota doesn't always make it easy for them to do so in some cases despite how straightforward it is to work on the 2JZ-GE and the SC chassis in general. I've seen all manner of older niche vehicles be treated to factory restoration and cheap fixes and weird modification alike.
The current entry price for SC's probably have a lot to do with that.
The current entry price for SC's probably have a lot to do with that.
.I don't like to see them bastardized either. I also don't see the point in stripping out all the weight possible unless someone is building a trailered track car with a full roll cage. Other than Cali emissions states (CA, NYC, etc.) NA-T and GTE swaps, even 1JZ's, should be the goal.
Steve said it right on that thread . Knowing him, having a built MKIV and SC, he knows what he was talking about ... "work on your power plant if you are worried about weight. Don't take away the luxuries for which the car was designed with" . He is right , there are +3800lbs cars around that makes +1500rwhp. You said it the same way and rightfully .. first work on your power plant / drive train. Then if truly you want to do better on a racing event ( I said racing event ) , weight reduction comes in. What is the point of weight reduction if the car is not used in racing ? But to use it in racing , you got to have a better power plant . Just like you said , Lexus didn't not endowed the USDM SC with a boosted version just because it was intended to be a luxury cruising car. But that doesn't stop anybody from using it as a racing car .. but do it right !
Let me just leave it this way ....."To see people stripping things out of the SC and yet with a stock power plant or is not a car used in a racing event just clearly shows something is not right
. People has to keep in mind they have chosen to start with a luxury vehicle " .And please , let no one comes in here and say "It's our car and we do what we want". No one , I repeat, nobody here is stopping anybody from doing what he or she want in his or her car. It is your money and do as you wish. But as true enthusiasts of this nice car , we are commenting on what we believe is not right so others may learn and value better our beloved cars. It is indeed a nice car even in stock form , being way ahead of its times. Otherwise we all wouldn't be on this forum talking about it. We just hate to see more and more SCs bastardized and am sure a lot others feel the same way. Their values already are down the drain and for non fanatics to see bastardized SCs , what impression do you think they will have about our cars or about SC owners ?.... just another honda civic owners who cannot afford to maintain their cars that is why they put cheap and ugly parts on them.
Last edited by gerrb; 05-02-16 at 08:42 AM.
05-02-16, 10:09 PM
#231
I went in for my emissions *pre-test* today. The results were pretty good and I passed
Although my HC's were passing they were at the very limit. I'll still be able to pass tomorrow or the next day but I'm wondering if the old, original FPR and still possibly the ECU have anything to do with that.
Results (*"AVE"= average, "MEAS"=measured, "MAX"=Maximum allowed)
15MPH 2150RPM (PASSED):
HC (PPM):
82 MAX
23 AVE
82 MEAS
CO (%):
0.48 MAX
0.08 AVE
0.04 MEAS
NO (PPM):
687 MAX
194 AVE
250 MEAS
25MPH 2270 RPM (PASSED):
HC (PPM):
48 MAX
14 AVE
35 MEAS
CO (%):
0.45 MAX
0.06 AVE
0.02 MEAS
NO (PPM):
701 MAX
166 AVE
36 MEAS
So now I have to get it taken in for the actual smog test. Maybe I will replace the FPR and test the '92 ECU before that. I have until the 18th.
Although my HC's were passing they were at the very limit. I'll still be able to pass tomorrow or the next day but I'm wondering if the old, original FPR and still possibly the ECU have anything to do with that.
Results (*"AVE"= average, "MEAS"=measured, "MAX"=Maximum allowed)
15MPH 2150RPM (PASSED):
HC (PPM):
82 MAX
23 AVE
82 MEAS
CO (%):
0.48 MAX
0.08 AVE
0.04 MEAS
NO (PPM):
687 MAX
194 AVE
250 MEAS
25MPH 2270 RPM (PASSED):
HC (PPM):
48 MAX
14 AVE
35 MEAS
CO (%):
0.45 MAX
0.06 AVE
0.02 MEAS
NO (PPM):
701 MAX
166 AVE
36 MEAS
So now I have to get it taken in for the actual smog test. Maybe I will replace the FPR and test the '92 ECU before that. I have until the 18th.
05-02-16, 11:02 PM
#232
Looking forward and being practical , I will eventually be left with an auto and 6 speed stroker SC . They have to be the ultimate street setup . That just shows how much I like the SCs . And be left with one of my stroker 6 speed MKIVs . The rest have to go at one point in time.
. And be left with one of my stroker 6 speed MKIVs . The rest have to go at one point in time. You've mentioned before that at least a couple of those MKIVs are investment cars anyway. And you did buy them a long time ago.Your ultimate street SC's, automatic or manual, should be tremendous fun for years
You are installing a 2JZGTE on your SC. Any SC with that power train , one way or another will keep its value or go higher in my opinion just because those drive trains are not going cheaper anymore as the market shows. Any SC with a manual transmission or nice & tastefully done mods will either keep or go higher in values. Just don't over do mods like I do cause you ain't getting back your money .
cause you ain't getting back your money . BPU with stock components are as far as it will go for mine. After riding in an open-diff 650whp SC300 6-speed once I'll have to see whenever I might be ready for that much horsepower underfoot 
350whp-400whp will be plenty for me from a near-stock engine in a daily driven car like this.Here's hoping you are right about the value going slightly higher in that configuration. I'd still never expect MKIV TT 6-speed value from my SC... just something reasonable
No one gets their money out of even moderately valuable cars after a point.
Unless they own a MacLaren F1 or a Ferrari 250 GTO. Then the values just keep climbing
This is exactly why I said , "I tend to believe some seems to have started with the wrong car" . Like I am not gonna buy a Lamborghini when I know I cannot keep up even with its ordinary maintenance or live at the Hamptons if I cannot maintain the house or its surroundings. It is simply a bad decision. Even if it was just given to you but you can't maintain it , the moment something goes wrong .. what happens ? Your guess would be same as mine
This is also where I hope that quality 3D printed cosmetic parts might help this model in the coming years. Sometimes I wish Lexus were like Mercedes in that they still keep producing many parts for nearly all their models back into the 1950's. Of course it's still their prices but at least you can still get originals.
Dang ... I didn't want to talk about that Weight Reduction . I know some will be hurt about this topic. But it is what it is. That is what I love about SupraForums. People will say it just the way it is especially if they see you bastardizing the MKIV, lmaol. Many will not hold off and most wouldn't be sensored by the moderators just because forum policies there are different. It has good and bad consequences. The promotion of bad and ugly modifications doesn't happen but it hurts also a lot of feelings. But it is what it is as they used to say.
Steve said it right on that thread . Knowing him, having a built MKIV and SC, he knows what he was talking about ... "work on your power plant if you are worried about weight. Don't take away the luxuries for which the car was designed with" . He is right , there are +3800lbs cars around that makes +1500rwhp. You said it the same way and rightfully .. first work on your power plant / drive train. Then if truly you want to do better on a racing event ( I said racing event ) , weight reduction comes in. What is the point of weight reduction if the car is not used in racing ? But to use it in racing , you got to have a better power plant . Just like you said , Lexus didn't not endowed the USDM SC with a boosted version just because it was intended to be a luxury cruising car. But that doesn't stop anybody from using it as a racing car .. but do it right !
Let me just leave it this way ....."To see people stripping things out of the SC and yet with a stock power plant or is not a car used in a racing event just clearly shows something is not right . People has to keep in mind they have chosen to start with a luxury vehicle " .
And please , let no one comes in here and say "It's our car and we do what we want". No one , I repeat, nobody here is stopping anybody from doing what he or she want in his or her car. It is your money and do as you wish. But as true enthusiasts of this nice car , we are commenting on what we believe is not right so others may learn and value better our beloved cars. It is indeed a nice car even in stock form , being way ahead of its times. Otherwise we all wouldn't be on this forum talking about it. We just hate to see more and more SCs bastardized and am sure a lot others feel the same way. Their values already are down the drain and for non fanatics to see bastardized SCs , what impression do you think they will have about our cars or about SC owners ?.... just another honda civic owners who cannot afford to maintain their cars that is why they put cheap and ugly parts on them.
Steve said it right on that thread . Knowing him, having a built MKIV and SC, he knows what he was talking about ... "work on your power plant if you are worried about weight. Don't take away the luxuries for which the car was designed with" . He is right , there are +3800lbs cars around that makes +1500rwhp. You said it the same way and rightfully .. first work on your power plant / drive train. Then if truly you want to do better on a racing event ( I said racing event ) , weight reduction comes in. What is the point of weight reduction if the car is not used in racing ? But to use it in racing , you got to have a better power plant . Just like you said , Lexus didn't not endowed the USDM SC with a boosted version just because it was intended to be a luxury cruising car. But that doesn't stop anybody from using it as a racing car .. but do it right !
Let me just leave it this way ....."To see people stripping things out of the SC and yet with a stock power plant or is not a car used in a racing event just clearly shows something is not right
. People has to keep in mind they have chosen to start with a luxury vehicle " .And please , let no one comes in here and say "It's our car and we do what we want". No one , I repeat, nobody here is stopping anybody from doing what he or she want in his or her car. It is your money and do as you wish. But as true enthusiasts of this nice car , we are commenting on what we believe is not right so others may learn and value better our beloved cars. It is indeed a nice car even in stock form , being way ahead of its times. Otherwise we all wouldn't be on this forum talking about it. We just hate to see more and more SCs bastardized and am sure a lot others feel the same way. Their values already are down the drain and for non fanatics to see bastardized SCs , what impression do you think they will have about our cars or about SC owners ?.... just another honda civic owners who cannot afford to maintain their cars that is why they put cheap and ugly parts on them.
I am also absolutely not wishing to dog on anyone's personal style, ideas or restoration of their SC300 or SC400 (or Soarer). Not my desire at all. Like you, I'm only wishing we'd see more appreciation for what the car already is. I have myself spent a sizable amount alone on cosmetically restoring my SC's interior piece by piece. It is not cheap to do right and not always easy to find quality used parts in the right color.
Every older popular car model I've encountered usually goes through a period like this. Ultimately a car is the canvas anyone wants it to be. I just happen to feel the '92-'00 SC was already a beautiful looking canvas to begin with
Now as for engines, transmissions, brakes and differentials... I say bring on a quality NA-T setup or any flavor of GTE swap done right. Lexus gave us great naturally aspirated engines but a power deficit was the one glaring flaw in these cars that deserves to be corrected.
....
Strict emissions states are the only wrench in the argument to focus on adding power. In that case it really does become a difficult problem that an NA-T setup, and most GTE swaps, no matter how clean they run, cannot fix. At least that's how California is. Other states at least exempt cars after 25 years or don't have the strict visual inspection we do here.
In that situation I can kind of, sort of, maybe see the reasoning behind lightening the car... but it still won't do very much considering what an SC300/400 is. It will still take away from what it is. And I love those infamous Seibon carbon fiber doors for SC's and Soarers but I'd never want to use them in my daily driven SC.
Among the reasons I bought my SC is *because* it's such a heavy, reinforced tank of an automobile. 100lb doors with big cross-beams in them are no joke when it comes to safety, even if the car is a quarter century old.
This is also why I've been interested in whether or not anyone has managed to BAR an LS1 swap in an SC in California. It's a very commonly available engine built in larger numbers than the 2JZ. Given the choice I'd take a JZ turbo engine in one of these cars hands down but it's another option in CA even if it is veering into different territory.
And then there is also the much more manageable setup like mine: slow 220hp NA smog legal engine but with a manual transmission, suspension work, and differential work. It could use a turbo, sure, and it's got the acceleration of an FR-S but it is still a very fun version of the SC series as-is.
...
These are beautiful classic cars. The engines and suspensions need some help but it's such a timeless automobile
Last edited by KahnBB6; 05-03-16 at 02:53 AM. Reason: Fixes and small additions.
05-02-16, 11:05 PM
#233
Thank you!! I'd love to do that right away but it's still going to take a while. I need a little break from all I've spent lately on the tuneup. I still have a few more GTE parts to buy, then the major things are:
-Send GTE 6-speed ECU in to Tanin
-Rebuild USDM 150k twin turbos
-Rebuild USDM GTE head
-Convert USDM GTE harness
-Figure out which engine will be used to assemble all of this... and where. I might need a second car at that point.
I'd love to do that right away but it's still going to take a while. I need a little break from all I've spent lately on the tuneup. I still have a few more GTE parts to buy, then the major things are:-Send GTE 6-speed ECU in to Tanin
-Rebuild USDM 150k twin turbos
-Rebuild USDM GTE head
-Convert USDM GTE harness
-Figure out which engine will be used to assemble all of this... and where. I might need a second car at that point.
05-03-16, 09:52 AM
#234
I went in for my emissions *pre-test* today. The results were pretty good and I passed
Although my HC's were passing they were at the very limit. I'll still be able to pass tomorrow or the next day but I'm wondering if the old, original FPR and still possibly the ECU have anything to do with that.
Results (*"AVE"= average, "MEAS"=measured, "MAX"=Maximum allowed)
15MPH 2150RPM (PASSED):
HC (PPM):
82 MAX
23 AVE
82 MEAS
CO (%):
0.48 MAX
0.08 AVE
0.04 MEAS
NO (PPM):
687 MAX
194 AVE
250 MEAS
25MPH 2270 RPM (PASSED):
HC (PPM):
48 MAX
14 AVE
35 MEAS
CO (%):
0.45 MAX
0.06 AVE
0.02 MEAS
NO (PPM):
701 MAX
166 AVE
36 MEAS
So now I have to get it taken in for the actual smog test. Maybe I will replace the FPR and test the '92 ECU before that. I have until the 18th.
Although my HC's were passing they were at the very limit. I'll still be able to pass tomorrow or the next day but I'm wondering if the old, original FPR and still possibly the ECU have anything to do with that.
Results (*"AVE"= average, "MEAS"=measured, "MAX"=Maximum allowed)
15MPH 2150RPM (PASSED):
HC (PPM):
82 MAX
23 AVE
82 MEAS
CO (%):
0.48 MAX
0.08 AVE
0.04 MEAS
NO (PPM):
687 MAX
194 AVE
250 MEAS
25MPH 2270 RPM (PASSED):
HC (PPM):
48 MAX
14 AVE
35 MEAS
CO (%):
0.45 MAX
0.06 AVE
0.02 MEAS
NO (PPM):
701 MAX
166 AVE
36 MEAS
So now I have to get it taken in for the actual smog test. Maybe I will replace the FPR and test the '92 ECU before that. I have until the 18th.
1st Test:
2nd Test:
Maybe you just need to drive the car a little harder before you test it.
Last edited by Blkexcoupe; 05-03-16 at 10:12 AM.
05-03-16, 12:29 PM
#235
I had similar results the first time I had to smog my car a few months ago, and I ultimately ended up failing because of the gas cap. After picking up a new gas cap from lexus I smogged the car the next day after a spirited drive. The results were completely different.
1st Test:
2nd Test:
Maybe you just need to drive the car a little harder before you test it.
1st Test:
2nd Test:
Maybe you just need to drive the car a little harder before you test it.
There was nothing amiss with the machine though. It just cost me some cool down time for the cats.
The gas cap / evap test all checked out fine. My cap was replaced with a new OEM part in 2013.
Since it may be related to the occasional rough start idle issue I've ordered a new OEM FPR and gaskets. And I'm waiting for Tanin to finish with my spare ECU.
Worst case I'll see about a new #2 cat.
Still, I can probably pass on the edge with this right now. Can't schedule in a test today but probably tomorrow unless replacing another part or two will help. I've got two weeks.
05-04-16, 06:29 PM
#237
Tanin shipped my repaired spare '92 ECU out today and the new OEM FPR also shipped out this afternoon. I will try those first (possibly with another pre-test to see the result since my mechanic gave me the first one for free
).I did some research today and the same "Direct Fit" Catco #66266 Cali-spec #2 (rear) cat is still available if I happen to need another one.
There is also an alternative "Direct Fit" Catco #93266 Cali-Spec #2 (rear) cat listed in the ARB database and the Catco catalog for 1992-1995 SC300 Cali-Spec models. I have not seen that listed for sale anywhere online or found a picture of it so I am not sure if it's a new revision, old revision, still produced or if it is truly "Direct Fit" or just a mislabeled legal universal cat.
Anyway... I'm not there yet. My #1 cat is OEM from 2010 and my #2 cat is the Catco 66266 new from 2014. The other two parts arrive on Friday. Those should probably get the HC numbers down and be good enough to wrap this up.
05-08-16, 02:08 AM
#238
The Tanin remanufactured 1992 SC300 M/T Cali-Spec ECU (#89661-24320) came in on Friday. Last night I swapped out the Toyota Reman replacement ECU and put this one in.
I wasn't expecting much but I was pleasantly surprised! Not only is the car running smoother than with the Toyota Reman ECU. It also feels like it's firing much better than before! I felt like the car wasn't putting out much power after 5000 RPM on the Toyota Reman ECU... even after all of this repair and maintenance... but with the Tanin repaired ECU I have regained my top end 4000rpm-6000 RPM+ pull!
It just feels like it's running much better overall now at all RPMs.
My idle is now around 900-950-1000 so I'll have to readjust that but otherwise one of the best repairs I've ever made to the car. I honestly can't remember for sure if my original (stolen/lost) 1993 ECU felt like it ran the car this well or not.
The new factory FPR goes in on Monday as well. I am expecting a good result from the next (and final) smog pre-test such that I can have lower numbers and breathe a sigh of relief.
I wasn't expecting much but I was pleasantly surprised! Not only is the car running smoother than with the Toyota Reman ECU. It also feels like it's firing much better than before! I felt like the car wasn't putting out much power after 5000 RPM on the Toyota Reman ECU... even after all of this repair and maintenance... but with the Tanin repaired ECU I have regained my top end 4000rpm-6000 RPM+ pull!
It just feels like it's running much better overall now at all RPMs.
My idle is now around 900-950-1000 so I'll have to readjust that but otherwise one of the best repairs I've ever made to the car. I honestly can't remember for sure if my original (stolen/lost) 1993 ECU felt like it ran the car this well or not.
The new factory FPR goes in on Monday as well. I am expecting a good result from the next (and final) smog pre-test such that I can have lower numbers and breathe a sigh of relief.
05-09-16, 09:51 PM
#239
Everything is still working fine on the Tanin repaired 1992 ECU 50+ miles later. I'd say it's definitely compatible and the same part.
I readjusted the idle-stop setting and now the idle is back to where it should be.
FPR install and second emission pre-test postponed until the morning. Hopefully that will be the true cure to the occasional funny start issue. I'm pretty sure it is. That really isn't happening nearly as much now-- just occasionally.
I'm also going to have the clutch master re-bled since the new response has made me think there might be just a tiny bit of air in there that I hadn't been able to notice before. It's not much but since the clutch is still so new I want to be safe and not chance it.
Then... a slightly early oil change, rear diff pinion seal replacement and fluid change (Redline Heavy Shockproof), and a much needed suspension alignment.
Overall though, the SC is running great now! Better than it's been in a few years.
I readjusted the idle-stop setting and now the idle is back to where it should be.
FPR install and second emission pre-test postponed until the morning. Hopefully that will be the true cure to the occasional funny start issue. I'm pretty sure it is. That really isn't happening nearly as much now-- just occasionally.
I'm also going to have the clutch master re-bled since the new response has made me think there might be just a tiny bit of air in there that I hadn't been able to notice before. It's not much but since the clutch is still so new I want to be safe and not chance it.
Then... a slightly early oil change, rear diff pinion seal replacement and fluid change (Redline Heavy Shockproof), and a much needed suspension alignment.
Overall though, the SC is running great now! Better than it's been in a few years.
05-11-16, 12:55 AM
#240
Late update for yesterday:
-- Clutch master cylinder re-bled on a hunch. Superb feel and engagement now.
-- New Lance suspension alignment.
-- Had new OEM fuel pressure regulator installed
With all of the above and the Tanin repaired 1992 ECU, the car felt great. Couldn't ask more from an NA SC300.
Then I failed the second smog pre-test. Quite horribly. Sigh... I really wanted to be done...
Second smog pre-test.
Items changed:
--Toyota Reman ECU swapped for Tanin repaired 1992 SC300 M/T Cali ECU (which is supposed to be the same)
--New fuel pressure regulator (OEM)
Results (*"AVE"= average, "MEAS"=measured, "MAX"=Maximum allowed)
15MPH 1932 RPM (FAIL):
HC (PPM):
82 MAX
23 AVE
149 MEAS
CO (%):
0.48 MAX
0.08 AVE
0.05 MEAS
NO (PPM):
687 MAX
194 AVE
187 MEAS
25MPH 2123 RPM (FAIL):
HC (PPM):
48 MAX
14 AVE
79 MEAS
CO (%):
0.45 MAX
0.06 AVE
0.04 MEAS
NO (PPM):
701 MAX
166 AVE
29 MEAS
-------------
Compared to the last test just a week ago I went from:
15 MPH: 82 HC to 149 HC (82 is the max allowed)
25 MPH: 35 HC to 79 HC (48 is the max allowed)
But in this same test my NO numbers went down (they were always passing, as were my CO numbers):
15 MPH: 250 to 187
25 MPH: 36 to 29
We also tried swapping back to the Toyota Reman ECU, changing to a spare brand new distributor cap and rotor and adjusting the timing to dead on 10 TDC (it was apparently at 11 by my prior mistake). Then we tried retarding the timing from 10 TDC by three degrees (the maximum allowed).
I got close to 82 HC again (erratically and VERY briefly) at 15 MPH and 50 HC and higher at 25 MPH, again... briefly and erratically but these numbers were in a manual test mode with unlimited time to make sure the cats were hot.
....
So while the car is repaired as far as this thread's symptomatic issues are concerned, my #2 Catco cat needs to be replaced now. Not sure if two years was all it was good for or if all of the issues in the last six months contributed to wearing it out.
I'm not entirely sure now if the 1992 SC300 M/T Cali-Spec ECU has *exactly* the same programming as the 1993-1994 SC300 M/T Cali-Spec ECUs and the Reman version. I still assume so given that putting my unserviced Reman ECU back in still gave similar emission test numbers but I am not yet certain (the very last manual test numbers with the Toyota Reman were a bit lower than than with the Tanin ECU). I'd need a more isolated test to prove that without a doubt.
No time left to send the Toyota Reman ECU in to Tanin until after I find a solution to pass smog by next Wednesday. With that back in the car it doesn't feel quite as good as the repaired '92 ECU. It's okay but I can tell there is a difference. The Reman ECU needs to be serviced.
Time to hunt for a new second cat and have some cutting and welding done to make everything fit. Boy, what a saga.
Those USDM twin turbos are getting dusty...
-- Clutch master cylinder re-bled on a hunch. Superb feel and engagement now.
-- New Lance suspension alignment.
-- Had new OEM fuel pressure regulator installed
With all of the above and the Tanin repaired 1992 ECU, the car felt great. Couldn't ask more from an NA SC300.
Then I failed the second smog pre-test. Quite horribly. Sigh... I really wanted to be done...
Second smog pre-test.
Items changed:
--Toyota Reman ECU swapped for Tanin repaired 1992 SC300 M/T Cali ECU (which is supposed to be the same)
--New fuel pressure regulator (OEM)
Results (*"AVE"= average, "MEAS"=measured, "MAX"=Maximum allowed)
15MPH 1932 RPM (FAIL):
HC (PPM):
82 MAX
23 AVE
149 MEAS
CO (%):
0.48 MAX
0.08 AVE
0.05 MEAS
NO (PPM):
687 MAX
194 AVE
187 MEAS
25MPH 2123 RPM (FAIL):
HC (PPM):
48 MAX
14 AVE
79 MEAS
CO (%):
0.45 MAX
0.06 AVE
0.04 MEAS
NO (PPM):
701 MAX
166 AVE
29 MEAS
-------------
Compared to the last test just a week ago I went from:
15 MPH: 82 HC to 149 HC (82 is the max allowed)
25 MPH: 35 HC to 79 HC (48 is the max allowed)
But in this same test my NO numbers went down (they were always passing, as were my CO numbers):
15 MPH: 250 to 187
25 MPH: 36 to 29
We also tried swapping back to the Toyota Reman ECU, changing to a spare brand new distributor cap and rotor and adjusting the timing to dead on 10 TDC (it was apparently at 11 by my prior mistake). Then we tried retarding the timing from 10 TDC by three degrees (the maximum allowed).
I got close to 82 HC again (erratically and VERY briefly) at 15 MPH and 50 HC and higher at 25 MPH, again... briefly and erratically but these numbers were in a manual test mode with unlimited time to make sure the cats were hot.
....
So while the car is repaired as far as this thread's symptomatic issues are concerned, my #2 Catco cat needs to be replaced now. Not sure if two years was all it was good for or if all of the issues in the last six months contributed to wearing it out.
I'm not entirely sure now if the 1992 SC300 M/T Cali-Spec ECU has *exactly* the same programming as the 1993-1994 SC300 M/T Cali-Spec ECUs and the Reman version. I still assume so given that putting my unserviced Reman ECU back in still gave similar emission test numbers but I am not yet certain (the very last manual test numbers with the Toyota Reman were a bit lower than than with the Tanin ECU). I'd need a more isolated test to prove that without a doubt.
No time left to send the Toyota Reman ECU in to Tanin until after I find a solution to pass smog by next Wednesday. With that back in the car it doesn't feel quite as good as the repaired '92 ECU. It's okay but I can tell there is a difference. The Reman ECU needs to be serviced.
Time to hunt for a new second cat and have some cutting and welding done to make everything fit. Boy, what a saga.
Those USDM twin turbos are getting dusty...
Last edited by KahnBB6; 05-11-16 at 02:02 AM.