SCereal

iTrader: (4)

Right now I'm on an aristo ecu and I need to replace my fuel line as my oem hard line is damaged. I had planned to swap it later but only want to do it once. Ultimately I want to run e85 and I want a fuel system to support 1krwhp on e85. I'm trying to figure out a way to do this without having to redo it later when I have my stand alone.

I'm thinking dual walbro 416 e85 pumps. One for now two later staged by proefi.
Run a single -8an line for now, dual later.
I have a fuelab fpr I planned to reuse with a -6an return. All ptfe of course.

Any reason this wouldn't work?
I can't find anything definitively that the dual 416s will flow enough but seems each will do almost 700 so I'd think two could support 1k+. I've read two -6 lines won't flow enough on e85 but no hard numbers. My concern is the two pumps won't be enough and running dual lines would be silly with three pumps. Is there a drawback to just running big lines now? Say a -10 feed split to two -8 on each end of rail? Would the fuel recirculating be a concern? It's not a track car at all. Street duty only.

Hope this is coherent and some of the experts can chime in.
Thanks

gerrb

iTrader: (34)

One Walbro 416 with a JMS PowerMAX FuelMAX has been proven to make 650whp on E85 ...

If I were you I will do the -10an feed and -8an split at the rail if your end goal is 1000rwhp fuel lines. Over building your fuel system is the best way to go so you have room to grow.

You can't go wrong with an overbuilt fuel system .

Ali SC3

iTrader: (10)

I would listen to Gerrb a -10 line sounds alot better than running dual -8 lines.. less lines to run and likely less pressure drop and should have the flow you need.

SCereal

iTrader: (4)

Thanks guys! I was hoping you two and 99SC42 would chime in. The single line makes the most sense so i can run as many or as few pumps as I require without major rework.

The fuel recirculating won't be a problem in the meantime? That's a big fat line for the 7psi or so I'll be running until i swap in the 4l80.

Edit - next question. What's the best setup from the pump to outside the tank? pump to e85 submersible hose to some sort of barbed bulkhead fitting that's AN on the exterior?

99SC42

iTrader: (44)

Yeah what GerrB said.

You can do it couple different ways..

Dual -6 will will make 1100-1200hp with zero issues.

Its all about how you wanna run the lines and how much room you have.

-10 would be ideal if you have enough room and not have to ever worry about it. It could be done through the trunk of the car.

Run -10 from the tank------------------> tank, return from the back of the rail -10------------------->to the fpr
Bottom of the fpr -6------------------------->to the factory return fitting on the bottom of the Tank.

Its will cost you less money that way and it will definitely hold 1000-1100hp

Or single -10 to front crossmember Y into a dual -6, return from the middle to the fpr , ff sensor screw right on the bottom of the fpr and straight to the Tank.

The main issues is mounting the dual 485 on the stock hanger and running the -10 line out of the tank.

lol I was typing when you posted

SCereal

iTrader: (4)

Cool thank you guys! I just found Gerry's fuel system build in his monster build thread. Answered a lot of questions in my mind since I've not dug around in my tank yet. I'm going to do a setup similar to that.

gerrb

iTrader: (34)

^^^ Are you referring to my meth lab fuel system setup , triple Denso TT pumps ? hahahah .. That is the least I prefer actually. The problem with more pumps, more items to fail. Imagine a scenario in which you are at 30psi boost / 800rwhp and one of the pumps that should be running fails ... you got the possibility of getting lean and your engine being damaged if you don't have a good ECU with fail safe features. So with multi pumps setup I would recommend a good ECU with fail safes that can monitor fuel pressure or AFRs and be able to protect your engine in case you go lean.

Single big pumps .. they fail , the engine shuts down but they are damn so noisy and heats up fuel uselessly at lower power level ...though some like Weldon have controllers to keep them from being noisy at lower boost levels.

Honestly I prefer a single big pump (like Weldon) with a stock Denso TT pump. Most of my cars have this setup now . Run the stock pump at let's say up to 400rwhp so no noise and you don't uselessly heat up the fuel which big pumps may do with so much flow (which you don't really need in the lower hp range) ... then I stage and run the big pump at higher boosts, your exhaust will be louder by then so you wont hear the big pump noise. Again on multi pump setup ECU fail safe features would help you save an engine.

SCereal

iTrader: (4)

haha Yes the meth lab setup. More the plumbing setup than the actual pump configuration. It was very helpful to see how things are setup and plan based on that. I'll be running ProEFI so I'm not concerned about dropping a pump or being able to stage them properly. Maybe a Walbro 416 and then a larger pump staged. I never really thought about running different sizes of pumps but that would solve capacity issues vs noise issues and all that.

SCereal

iTrader: (4)

Last thing (I think), how do you handle the OEM line? I know that banjo bolt has a finger that has to be plugged. Could you just replace the bolt with a regular one (retaining the oem banjo part to fill hole) and cut the line off and be good to go or is there a better way to do it?

gerrb

iTrader: (34)

IF I were you I will use them. In one of my cars, I used both OEM feed and return lines as both returns. My weldon pump needed a huge return line so I used both lines as returns. On another I got those holes welded shut. And on another , I use one for the stock Denso TT feed and the return as return.

Ali SC3

iTrader: (10)

Gerrb, how do you like to run the Denso and Weldon/2nd pump at the same time?
like if the denso is hooked up to the stock line like you mentioned then do you have the Weldon with its own line to the other side of the rail or is it setup some other way, I have little experience with aftermarket fuel setups but when I go for it I want to do it in a reliable/simple way and that sounds kind of nice.
If 1 Weldon would do it though maybe it makes more sense to buy the controller instead of the denso pump to keep the noise down but just noticed they are pretty pricey.

gerrb

iTrader: (34)

On one of my cars, I have a controller so I only have the Weldon 2345a . That setup can easily handle 1400rwhp on E85 but the controller ($380) and Weldon 2345a ($1250) are already almost $1600....you are right , kinda pricey . One -10an and splits to two -8an on each side of fuel rail. I have a -8an return . That weldon 2345a actually needs a -10an return but I stepped down to -8an. Stock banjo holes are welded. Feed and return are on the top hat of the tank.

On another one, I don't have a controller so I use the Denso TT up to 15psi then I let the Weldon 2035a (smaller pump ) kick in at higher boosts. Such combo can still provide for 1200rwhp on E85. Denso uses the stock line and Weldon uses a -10an. Each pump goes to each side of the rail. I have a one way valve on the Weldon line so if only the Denso TT is running , fuel doesn't flow back through the Weldon line. Denso has a built in one way valve. Return line -8an. Each pump is staged by the ECU . I like this setup the most cause most of the time anyway you are below 450rwhp on the streets . Only on kill mode that you actually use the big pump.

On my current project , I will try to use 3 Denso TT pumps. Each one goes to a FUEL LOG then a -10an to front and splits to -8an on each side of fuel rail. I will use stock feed and return as return lines. Each pump is staged by the ECU. I am not too keen on this setup but I already have all the parts around so I might as well use them and try such setup. Again most of the time , only the first Denso TT will provide you the most service till you go on higher boosts or kill mode.

If one is not using a standalone ECU and needs to use 2 pumps, one can be staged by using a variable boost pressure switch . At whatever boost pressure you set on the switch , the second pump kicks in.

Ali SC3

iTrader: (10)

Thanks for the explanation its much clearer to me now, the one way valve makes sense as well. def lots of options to consider.

SCereal

iTrader: (4)

I finally got to look in my tank and it makes sense to me now how it all goes together. I appreciate all the insight.