TT 1UZ power level issues.
11-26-14, 03:18 PM
#32
Lead Lap
Thread Starter
Thank you 99SC I appericate that.
I haven't dynoed the car, but according to the HP calculator on Great Lakes Dragaway's website.
With the weight of my car about 3900 lbs including me, and a trap speed of 133mph.
The stock ECU is making about 716 to the rear tires. probably close to about 800 at the motor.
These numbers might be off alittle bit, but I'm sure they are ballpark.
http://www.greatlakesdragaway.com/in...page=analyzers
Torque and HP numbers are usually pretty simular on the 1UZ . I'm basing this on my previous dyno runs.
The car should be making high 600's 670-690 ft-lbs at the tires, and 780-800 ft-lbs at the motor.
What kind of numbers are you putting down with yours?
I haven't dynoed the car, but according to the HP calculator on Great Lakes Dragaway's website.
With the weight of my car about 3900 lbs including me, and a trap speed of 133mph.
The stock ECU is making about 716 to the rear tires. probably close to about 800 at the motor.
These numbers might be off alittle bit, but I'm sure they are ballpark.
http://www.greatlakesdragaway.com/in...page=analyzers
Torque and HP numbers are usually pretty simular on the 1UZ . I'm basing this on my previous dyno runs.
The car should be making high 600's 670-690 ft-lbs at the tires, and 780-800 ft-lbs at the motor.
What kind of numbers are you putting down with yours?
Last edited by rdm20fan; 11-26-14 at 03:43 PM.
11-28-14, 05:44 PM
#33
you can make the car run well even off e85 and the stock ecu. it might be hard to start in 30 degree weather and might loose some mpg's in cruise but it should run ok
I hope we are being overly cautious with the gas stuff and it works out for you, but its the only flag I really see in the setup e85 shouldn't be lifting the head bolts. The 1uz is really not different than a 2jz in how the head and block are designed or even a 3sgte. maybe you did weaken the gasket or something previously I guess its worth a check and make sure everything is flat and good for sealing again.
I hope we are being overly cautious with the gas stuff and it works out for you, but its the only flag I really see in the setup e85 shouldn't be lifting the head bolts. The 1uz is really not different than a 2jz in how the head and block are designed or even a 3sgte. maybe you did weaken the gasket or something previously I guess its worth a check and make sure everything is flat and good for sealing again.
12-01-14, 05:10 AM
#34
gte & na-t
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Forget the numbers...it's not about the numbers.. its about the reliability and consistency.
I stay away from setups where you are actually lying /tricking the ecu to think Y when when its X.
If you want a reliable setup , trash that ecu and get a better BOX and never look back.
I've logged over 20k miles on my bone stock 2jzge with stock headbolts, stock camshafts, stock fuel rail making 700+ anywhere from 24-28 psi on E85. And it never pissed anti-freeze, never burned coolant, never overheated .
There is another guy on here that has a mk3 with bone stock 1uz making ~700 on the bone stock 1uz on e85, r154 trans, and Haltech ems.
if you are blowing the hg on these engines 2jz or 1uz on e85, then you are doing something wrong.
I stay away from setups where you are actually lying /tricking the ecu to think Y when when its X.
If you want a reliable setup , trash that ecu and get a better BOX and never look back.
I've logged over 20k miles on my bone stock 2jzge with stock headbolts, stock camshafts, stock fuel rail making 700+ anywhere from 24-28 psi on E85. And it never pissed anti-freeze, never burned coolant, never overheated .
There is another guy on here that has a mk3 with bone stock 1uz making ~700 on the bone stock 1uz on e85, r154 trans, and Haltech ems.
if you are blowing the hg on these engines 2jz or 1uz on e85, then you are doing something wrong.
12-01-14, 08:03 AM
#35
Oumar, love you. As always, gospel. If you enjoy experimenting, wasting hours turning wrenches, and ending up with no real improvements, by all means, continue. Or cough up a small chunk of change, learn how awesome it is to really fine tune your engine and take advantages of the features you could really use to drop et's that you don't have one the stock box and have fun.
On second thought, if you are the first type that is a glutton for punishment (ie: enjoys wrenching more than driving, idk some people are weird) then the aftermarket ecu will help you push the limits of the other things in your setup so you can still break stuff and fix things.
On second thought, if you are the first type that is a glutton for punishment (ie: enjoys wrenching more than driving, idk some people are weird) then the aftermarket ecu will help you push the limits of the other things in your setup so you can still break stuff and fix things.
12-01-14, 08:58 AM
#36
Lead Lap
Thread Starter
Ali, i agree with you. Toyota uses very similar stuff with these motors. 7m; 1uz; 3sg; 2jz.
I know that the 1uz, and 7m's will start to have head bolt stretch around 14 psi.
99SC says he can do 24-28 psi on stock head bolts. I don't claim to know anything about that.
99SC
If it is really about the reliability and consistency I'm at 170,000 miles on my stock ECU. You have 150,000 more to go.
My car starts, and drives like a stock Lexus SC400. Come on up to Chicago, and we can take a cruise anywhere you want to go. I'll turn the boost back a few lbs to about 19, and we can cruise or just run down the strip. I'm up for it.
Nobody is "Pissing Coolant" I have coolant in my overflow after a run at higher PSI levels. At 19 and less she runs all day.
After talking with some people who are familiar with the Toyota V8 I probably have a gasket which got compromised. A stand alone is not going to fix that.
I'm going to keep my stock ECU.
You can continue to post about how I should run a stand alone, but I'm not going to copy that set up. There are plenty of guys who already have it. I hope your stuff works great for ya. It's not the route I'm going to take though.
Thanks again for your input, and concern
Vrank,
I'm not a tuner. I would have to rely on someone else to tune my car. I have noticed to many situations where the tuner is tuning for WOT, and max HP only. Plus every time there is an issue you are trying to find someone to look at it again, and the cost to do this isn't cheap.
I don't have to do that with my system, and my car runs great. and I can control my additional injector controller for WOT myself.
This is the reason I'm keeping my stock ECU. The glutton of punishment is something I am willing to deal with. If you are not willing to deal with this, then this would not be a route I would recommend for you.
I know that the 1uz, and 7m's will start to have head bolt stretch around 14 psi.
99SC says he can do 24-28 psi on stock head bolts. I don't claim to know anything about that.
99SC
If it is really about the reliability and consistency I'm at 170,000 miles on my stock ECU. You have 150,000 more to go.
My car starts, and drives like a stock Lexus SC400. Come on up to Chicago, and we can take a cruise anywhere you want to go. I'll turn the boost back a few lbs to about 19, and we can cruise or just run down the strip. I'm up for it.
Nobody is "Pissing Coolant" I have coolant in my overflow after a run at higher PSI levels. At 19 and less she runs all day.
After talking with some people who are familiar with the Toyota V8 I probably have a gasket which got compromised. A stand alone is not going to fix that.
I'm going to keep my stock ECU.
You can continue to post about how I should run a stand alone, but I'm not going to copy that set up. There are plenty of guys who already have it. I hope your stuff works great for ya. It's not the route I'm going to take though.
Thanks again for your input, and concern
Vrank,
I'm not a tuner. I would have to rely on someone else to tune my car. I have noticed to many situations where the tuner is tuning for WOT, and max HP only. Plus every time there is an issue you are trying to find someone to look at it again, and the cost to do this isn't cheap.
I don't have to do that with my system, and my car runs great. and I can control my additional injector controller for WOT myself.
This is the reason I'm keeping my stock ECU. The glutton of punishment is something I am willing to deal with. If you are not willing to deal with this, then this would not be a route I would recommend for you.
12-01-14, 05:02 PM
#37
Intermediate
Hi Bob, I remember you melt a piston or something gone wrong at first, in a 13s pass IIRC. After that you went for this rebuild. Is by far not a common problem, even when people overheat their 1uz´s more than once but, did you check if the head is flawless and the headgasket sits perfect on it? Maybe some damage were made at the time and now you´re facing problems because of that. Just a thought.
For E85 you can start by using 3/4 normal gas, 1/4 E85, run rough a little until the ECU relearns, then 1/2 tank of each, the same procedure, 3/4 E85, and then only E85. Not my experience, but a member here or on lextreme site did this and worked
For E85 you can start by using 3/4 normal gas, 1/4 E85, run rough a little until the ECU relearns, then 1/2 tank of each, the same procedure, 3/4 E85, and then only E85. Not my experience, but a member here or on lextreme site did this and worked
12-02-14, 03:01 PM
#38
Lead Lap
Thread Starter
Hi Bob, I remember you melt a piston or something gone wrong at first, in a 13s pass IIRC. After that you went for this rebuild. Is by far not a common problem, even when people overheat their 1uz´s more than once but, did you check if the head is flawless and the headgasket sits perfect on it? Maybe some damage were made at the time and now you´re facing problems because of that. Just a thought.
For E85 you can start by using 3/4 normal gas, 1/4 E85, run rough a little until the ECU relearns, then 1/2 tank of each, the same procedure, 3/4 E85, and then only E85. Not my experience, but a member here or on lextreme site did this and worked
For E85 you can start by using 3/4 normal gas, 1/4 E85, run rough a little until the ECU relearns, then 1/2 tank of each, the same procedure, 3/4 E85, and then only E85. Not my experience, but a member here or on lextreme site did this and worked
I have run about 50% ethanol in my 4Runner. I slowly worked up to that amount. The car seems to run ok with it.
It is down on power' and the gas mileage suffered a bit, but the truck ran ok.
Right now in Chicago E85 is more expensive then gas so I haven't done it in a while.
On my SC I run gas in the stock tank, and through the stock system. I run E85 on my secondary set of injectors. They are 880cc injectors.
I'm pretty sure the head gasket got compromised. Looking back I remember an issue while we were changing out the head bolts for studs, and then after the head lifted with the stock bolts stretching. I'm pretty sure these two things have cause a bad spot on one of the gaskets.
I'll pull them before spring, and check before the car runs again next summer.
12-03-14, 09:19 AM
#39
Hey MMC, you are right, I did melt a stock piston years ago, before I rebuilt the motor. I think I was only using the stock fuel system then.
I have run about 50% ethanol in my 4Runner. I slowly worked up to that amount. The car seems to run ok with it.
It is down on power' and the gas mileage suffered a bit, but the truck ran ok.
Right now in Chicago E85 is more expensive then gas so I haven't done it in a while.
On my SC I run gas in the stock tank, and through the stock system. I run E85 on my secondary set of injectors. They are 880cc injectors.
I'm pretty sure the head gasket got compromised. Looking back I remember an issue while we were changing out the head bolts for studs, and then after the head lifted with the stock bolts stretching. I'm pretty sure these two things have cause a bad spot on one of the gaskets.
I'll pull them before spring, and check before the car runs again next summer.
I have run about 50% ethanol in my 4Runner. I slowly worked up to that amount. The car seems to run ok with it.
It is down on power' and the gas mileage suffered a bit, but the truck ran ok.
Right now in Chicago E85 is more expensive then gas so I haven't done it in a while.
On my SC I run gas in the stock tank, and through the stock system. I run E85 on my secondary set of injectors. They are 880cc injectors.
I'm pretty sure the head gasket got compromised. Looking back I remember an issue while we were changing out the head bolts for studs, and then after the head lifted with the stock bolts stretching. I'm pretty sure these two things have cause a bad spot on one of the gaskets.
I'll pull them before spring, and check before the car runs again next summer.
12-03-14, 09:50 AM
#40
you can run a good amount of e85 on the stock ecu. I have several times put in a few gallons with filling up a tank. makes it run a little smoother. the o2 sensor uses a delta based on ideal air/fuel ratio for gasoline, and even though gas and e85 have much different ideal AFR's, the delta that the o2 sensor produces when measuring left over oxygen, will actually work for e85 up to a certain degree. there is a chart if you take the ideal e85 AFR and you can convert it the gas scale which is what you would see on your normal wideband gauge. when you do this you notice that the afr's converted to gasoline are basically the normal gasoline AFR's, meaning the ecu can still correct properly for the most part.
As I said above, the one thing it wont take advantage of is that E85 can burn really lean in cruise like 16-17 afr (gas afr), but your o2 sensor will home in on 14.8. so you can't get the extra benefits of the E85 in cruise, but for power you will get the knock resistance and as a nice side effect you will put out hardly any emissions.
The evo guys and the Subie guys have been doing this stuff for a while. a good read on the subject
http://www.evolutionm.net/forums/e85...notes-afr.html
As I said above, the one thing it wont take advantage of is that E85 can burn really lean in cruise like 16-17 afr (gas afr), but your o2 sensor will home in on 14.8. so you can't get the extra benefits of the E85 in cruise, but for power you will get the knock resistance and as a nice side effect you will put out hardly any emissions.
The evo guys and the Subie guys have been doing this stuff for a while. a good read on the subject
http://www.evolutionm.net/forums/e85...notes-afr.html
Originally Posted by http://www.evolutionm.net/
herefore Max Rich Torque of E85 is 7.1:1- 8.5:1
With that being said, here is what i would consider a very safe and conservative fuel tune on E85. *AFR's listed in bold are for widebands o2s that are calibrated for gasoline, AFR's in ( ) are actual E85 AFR:
Part Throttle lean (max eco) AFR of 16.5:1(11.0:1) 12.4% leaner than STOICH
Part Throttle rich AFR of 14.7:1(9.8:1)
Spool up... AFR of 13.5:1(9.00:1)
WOT... AFR of 12.1:1(8.06:1) 17.7% richer than STOICH
*If you're using a wideband that is calibrated for gasoline(14.7:1) and cannot change the calibration of the wideband, take your gasoline AFR and divide it by 1.5 to get actual e85 AFR or use the wideband in lambda mode. 1 lambda is 9.8:1
Here are some common AFR conversions(Gas AFR on left, e85 on right):
18.0:1=12.000
17.5:1=11.666
17.0:1=11.333
16.5:1=11.000
16.0:1=10.666
15.5:1=10.333
15.0:1=10.000
14.5:1=9.666
14.0:1=9.333
13.5:1=9.000
13.0:1=8.666
12.5:1=8.333
12.0:1=8.000
11.5:1=7.666
11.0:1=7.333
With that being said, here is what i would consider a very safe and conservative fuel tune on E85. *AFR's listed in bold are for widebands o2s that are calibrated for gasoline, AFR's in ( ) are actual E85 AFR:
Part Throttle lean (max eco) AFR of 16.5:1(11.0:1) 12.4% leaner than STOICH
Part Throttle rich AFR of 14.7:1(9.8:1)
Spool up... AFR of 13.5:1(9.00:1)
WOT... AFR of 12.1:1(8.06:1) 17.7% richer than STOICH
*If you're using a wideband that is calibrated for gasoline(14.7:1) and cannot change the calibration of the wideband, take your gasoline AFR and divide it by 1.5 to get actual e85 AFR or use the wideband in lambda mode. 1 lambda is 9.8:1
Here are some common AFR conversions(Gas AFR on left, e85 on right):
18.0:1=12.000
17.5:1=11.666
17.0:1=11.333
16.5:1=11.000
16.0:1=10.666
15.5:1=10.333
15.0:1=10.000
14.5:1=9.666
14.0:1=9.333
13.5:1=9.000
13.0:1=8.666
12.5:1=8.333
12.0:1=8.000
11.5:1=7.666
11.0:1=7.333
Last edited by Ali SC3; 12-03-14 at 09:57 AM.
12-05-14, 12:57 PM
#41
Lead Lap
Thread Starter
I run E85 in my second fuel system with my additional injector controller.
So in my application I don't think the ECU is learning how to run on E85. it's only spraying in E85 when the motor is under boost, and thats truely only for short periods.
all the other time it runs on 93 octane while I'm driving around.
I have ran E85 in my 4 Runner, and probably up to about 40-45% "Estimating"
I don't get the gas mileage I get with regular gas, and the trucks power is off a little, but the truck over all runs well. I don't think the stock ECU will optimize the maps, and timing for E85 like it will in a flex fuel vehicle.
I have heard that the US government wants to make E30 mandatory at all gas stations as the E30 should be what a non flex fuel vehicle can run, but do some research, or start a thread on the forum for the correct advice.
Last edited by rdm20fan; 12-05-14 at 01:00 PM.
12-09-14, 09:23 AM
#44
Lead Lap
Thread Starter
2 fuel pumps, 2 sets of fuel lines, 2 tanks, 4 fuel rails, and 16 injectors.
Timing is still being controlled by the stock ECU (Stock timing).
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