wanganstyl

iTrader: (5)

So I stumbled upon an easter egg of sorts; Has anyone done this STATESIDE?

Please dont ask me how to do this as that is MY question

supposedly a BMW M3 flywheel/clutch from e36M / E46M generation will directly bolt to a 2jz engine;


I did some digging and saw this done in other countries; the bellhouse needs an adapter and the transmission mounting as well;

http://www.mkivsupra.net/vbb/showthr...rsion-for-2jz&

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Toyota-Sup...p2047675.l2557

KahnBB6

iTrader: (5)

I have yet to hear of it in the States but that doesn't mean it won't happen. There is this extensive thread from a CL member named Lettut in Sweden where he uses a BMW 530D 5-speed manual transmission (this is not a gearbox that was sold in the USA) and if you look at page #5 of that thread it looks almost like a V160 in dimensions. Absolutely beautiful. He uses a very pricey Tilton clutch for his swap, however.

https://www.clublexus.com/forums/bui...d-5-speed.html

wanganstyl

iTrader: (5)

tilton clutch is great for RACING; terrible idea for street (due to cost and service interval, quality is industry leader)

too bad I dont have a 2JZ engine currently - back in 2009 I had a s54b32 and 2jzgte side by side in the garage but didn't know this easter egg of info.

I linked an adapter made in UK for 2jz engine to bolt on a BMW gearbox in the first post- it allowed use of OEM BMW flywheel and clutch

BMW flywheel and clutch is very street use OK and cheap compared to a tilton; Out of the box an original M3 clutch can take about 400rwhp

The pictured 530D transmission is a ZF 5 speed unit; it is identical physically to a 5 speed e36 M3 Zf SG320 or 328i gearbox.

The ZF 5 speed in USA is used in e39 5 series and e36, and e46 also - Extremely common to find (about $400)

The Getrag 6 speed in usa is used in e39 v8 540i and E46 M3; they are about $1k secondhand

Both of the BMW gearboxes (zf5 and Getrag 6) are STRONG.
Turbocharged @ 400-500-600hp is not uncommon and everyone knows about horsepower freaks M3 turbo cars.

KahnBB6

iTrader: (5)

Hang on... you mean you don't have a spare 2JZ to test with, right? In your sig it says you have a GTE swap in your SC.

Tilton clutches are great from what I've heard firsthand and read, but they are indeed hugely expensive with a short lifespan intended for racing much in the way track engines are built with maximum operating hours between rebuilds or inspection tear downs.

Thanks for clearing up the differences between the common BMW 5 and 6 speeds. So we do in fact get nearly the same versions of both here.

What I did not see clearly detailed in Lettut's thread (I may have just missed it) is the location of the remote shifter. I hope it's not an issue in the SC. From what he says, only a cooling line and the 1JZ starter provided fitment issues (one remedied by using a 2JZ starter) That's probably the one glaring issue with using a Nissan CD009 transmission.

I like what I'm seeing with these two BMW gearboxes.

wanganstyl

iTrader: (5)

The bmw gearboxes is what Toyota patterned their order with getrag for when the mk4 was designed.

Just look at how long Bmw and Mercedes have been around using these transmissions; getrag and zf recently merged and share parts between boxes and end assembly plants. The zf 6 speed in a e92 335i is made with both getrag and zf parts.

The sealed end with harmonic damper is nice for longer term running durability; as the difference between the ae86/jza70 cars vs jzz30/jza80 platforms have.

I wish I had one extra 2jz just sitting around; do you have one not in use as a spare? I cannot afford the space.

I want to put a 2jz gte into my current Bmw daily as a replacement in the future but keep the existing cheap Bmw trans. Engine mounts are avail and transmission will adapt very easily.

Shifter is only fixing the lever where you wish and the selector rod length to suit chassis. Simply cut and weld; any 5 series i6 e34 or e39 5 series will have a longer shift linkage set and they are avail enough in manual that u can call your local junkyard and get one cheap to cut up.

INTIMAZY

iTrader: (5)

You buy a Tilton clutch only when you know you NEED a Tilton clutch.

There must be more daily driver friendly options available. This is a very neat trans alternative to V160 and CD009!

wanganstyl

iTrader: (5)

Exactly.

And as I said first post:

The Easter egg is that the Bmw s52/s54/m50 family clutch and flywheel will bolt directly on to a 2jz.

I've heard this from the UK forums and from Jamaica

Does anyone in the USA have a way to verify this?

If so the easy solution would be to order a Bmw e36 m3 flywheel and clutch set with your gearbox- the m3 clutch will put down 350-400rwhp and is daily driver friendly

Sc400NL

any BMW gearbox/flywheel ect will bolt on a 1UZ-FE ?
its so easy to get BMW parts or any euro cars over here

KahnBB6

iTrader: (5)

That bit of history just blew my mind. It makes so much sense that they would do that during R&D. Wow. The pictures in the threads already mentioned speak for themselves.

I wish I did too but, no. I have no space or garage to put a 250+lb short block right now. I have 95% of an entire 2JZ-GTE top half conversion dismantled in pieces (electronics and all) that I can't do much with without a block to build them onto or space to do it, ha.

Are you going to give the ZF 5-speed swap a try when you have more space available? These threads in Europe seem to show a lot of success and I love that a factory BMW clutch and pressure plate can be used.

wanganstyl

iTrader: (5)

as many have prior mentioned the 2JZ was refined in Germany by a GMBH engineering firm I am 100% positive that these engineers probably owned some BMW's..............and knew the potential of the ZF / getrag manual transmissions very well.
The getrag g260 gearbox from a E30 325i or E would also bolt to the same bellhouse pattern and share the clutch with a ZF 5 speed; These units are much more similar in gearing ratio to a W55/W58/R154 - they have a 1:1 4th gear and 0.8 overdrive

The ZF 5 speed is a close ratio gearbox ideal for road racing, it's NON-overdrive and has a 1:1 5th gear (basically the 4th gear in a R154/w58)
The Getrag/zf 2000+ gearboxes all have 1:1 5th gear and a overdrive 0.83 6th gear; These are very very very similar to a V160/v161 gearbox; even share final drive.

To compare the DATA: (please dont criticize that one is NA and one is turbo); just looking at overall data

1989 535i has 200hp/220 toruqe, 5 speed Getrag g260 with 3,46 final drive and 0.8 overdrive
1989 MK3 supra turbo has 230hp/250 torque, R154 with 3,73 final drive and 0.74 overdrive

1998 Euro M3 has: 321hp, 6mt getrag SG420 gearbox with 3.23 final drive and 0.83 6th
1998 Toyota Supra TT has: 320hp, 6mt V160 with 3.23 final drive and 0.8 6th gear

hmmmmm very very similar


********************

I currently have a great daily driver that has a ZF5 speed and driveline installed OEM from BMW; the engine is also very nice but I have this strange desire for a turbocharged 2JZ .......

....in a BMW chassis

I don't care about emissions regulations and would be wiring up an Aristo JDM ecu to run MAP only; the current BMW engine is catless.

KahnBB6

iTrader: (5)

^^ And given this, I've found it funny that people complain about Toyota partnering with BMW for development of the upcoming Supra or possibly another sportscar and technology. It was done before to leap beyond the problematic 7M engine.

Indeed those transmissions are very similar in terms of gearing and application. Seems the W58 dates back to at least 1982 and the R154 was an in-house redesign of one of their R-series truck transmissions in 1985-86. Toyota saw that they were not keeping up beyond certain parameters and contracted to Getrag, probably at the behest of the 2JZ engineers. I'm cloudy on facts through: was the German firm given a Toyota/Yahama designed 1JZ-GTE engine to refine into the 2JZ-GE/2JZ-GTE or was the 1JZ and later 2JZ iteration wholly finished by that German firm? Maybe this was in a book about the MKIV Supra.

I like the ZF and Getrag gearboxes. It's easy to see that Toyota saw their superiority and wanted a leap beyond their own aging platforms beyond a certain power level.

Love to see you do a 2JZGTE BMW swap! However you're not bothering with emissions, more power to you. My whole swap has been founded on locating EGR parts, a USDM ECU & MAF and USDM cats for limited power. An Aristo swap is so much easier and cheaper.

wanganstyl

iTrader: (5)

Germany makes the best gearboxes; Ford has been using ZF/Getrag for years,
GM has used a ZF transaxle (like a porsche) in its Corvette since the C5

If I was able to read Japanese it would be much easier to find out the history, I would guess the linage:

7M-> yamaha (again) produced a 1jz;
1JZ -> german engineering firm produced 2jz

yamaha seems to be always at the head of toyota engines (literally as YAMAHA is often stamped on the head) - even the 2T has it



Here is Yamaha on the 1JZ head, its also on the 3s-GE head



- However there is no YAMAHA cast into the 2jz head

Ali SC3

iTrader: (10)

I messaged the 1 company in australia who still makes the kits for this swap, they have the whole adapter plate online and twin or triple disc clutch setup which is likely mad expensive, and I asked hjow uch for the adapter cause I would want to use stock bmw clutch components and they said 440 eur + Vat which sounds like a lot of money. also he said "but thats not so easy to mate it with bmw parts" which has me a little worried.

someone should start making these adapters in the US so I can save some money and do this swap with a E46 m3 6 speed transmission already.
I have read you don't want the one from the v8, the bellhousing is different and would probably need a different adapter.
You want the one from the 6 cylinder e36 or e46 m3 or even the ZF 5 speed.

Ali SC3

iTrader: (10)

It looks like there is someone selling the adapter now on the ebay.uk site and the price is not bad about $300.
whos going to be the first?

2jzcoupe

So my buddy has this adapter and is running into drive shaft issues since the bmw does note use a slip yoke on the trans. this is making having the drive shaft made very expensive. since the shaft will have to have a slip yoke on it the drive shaft is running like 800 when a normal drive shaft is like 400.