Ali SC3

iTrader: (10)

If you are changing to the BMW trans then you don't need the slipyoke, just use the BMW driveshaft and have it modified/mated to the stock rear section of your driveshaft. I read online somewhere how someone did it I just can't remember the exact details but its out there.

Not having the slipyoke is one of the best things about this swap is the fact that there is then no slip yoke for oil to leak out past the oil seal. The getrag's use this bolt on style exactly so that it does not leak oil everywhere on high horespower cars. also I want to say some of the auto cars have this, so check out a sc400 driveshaft for comparison.

HiPSI

iTrader: (2)

It seems to me after doing some research that the only proven way is to use abc clutch adapter kit which is $1850 euro or $2300 used plus international shipping . Then you have to source a trans, custom shifter , and custom drive shaft. I was finding e46 m3 trans for $1800-2000 on ebay. The 530d diesel 5spd is said to be pretty durable similar to the r154 and is pretty cheap but you'd have to look abroad due to it not being a USA option.

Ali SC3

iTrader: (10)

That is what they want you to think but I think you can use all the stock BMW stuff from what I read.
I am reading that you can bolt up the stock E46 flywheel, and a whole E46 m3 stock or aftermarket clutch set and use the BMW slave cylinder. all pretty much BMW stock.

the only custom things I am seeing here are the trans mount, and the driveshaft but I read there is some combination that makes it a little easier on the driveshaft I will have to find that again.
For the shifter location, the best part is that the BMW shifters can be modified to any length really cause they use these 2 rods, so that shouldn't be a problem either.

Also the E46 M3 trans are around $1500-2000 generall, but they also made a SMG version of the same transmission which has an hydraulic automatic shifter system on it.
To keep it brief you can convert one of these back to manual with a manual bellhousing and the manual shift lever cause its the same getrag transmission, and have a E46 M3 manual trans. the reason this info is good is because no one wants these they go for like $600-1000. If you can't get the manual bellhousing there is a way to machine out and install the parts in the SMG bellhousing, but its sort of hit or miss.

this will give you a general idea of converting a SMG trans.
basically the manual bellhousing has these 2 large pins and a bearing to keep the shifter centered that the SMG does not have well cause it doesn't have a traditional shifter.
http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/sh...ual-conversion
http://www.m3forum.net/m3forum/showthread.php?t=444126

there is a listing on ebay.UK for the adapter right now, this is the description

HiPSI

iTrader: (2)

The only issue that I can see is what about the extra distance the adapter creates? Will the Slave cylinder be able to "reach" the clutch? Will the clutch fork be now not fit due to this being off? Will the input shaft reach far enough inside the clutch assembly to the flywheel were the pilot bearing rests?

I feel like the reason the ABC kit is the only option is that the custom flywheel makes up for this distance.

"All measurements are taken with CNC dial-up gauge from OEM Toyota/BMW/Tilton parts for proper engine and gear box center collinear alignment fitting.

""

From the looks of the image in their picture the adapter looks appx 1/2" inch.

http://www.abc-clutch.com/products/1...ox-adapter-KIT

It would be amazing if we could just run the stock BMW stuff.





Some good info:

http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/sh...8-2jz-m3-trans

Shaggy0713

I've read that the getrax in the bmw's is not as strong as the supra. But at 1k, I guess it could be a good tranny in place of an r145.

HiPSI

iTrader: (2)

I've read 600-700whp depending on how hard you drive it, or how often you launch it and depending on the tires your launching on. The initial setup will be expensive but if you blow a tranny you can replace it pretty minimally versus if you **** up a v160 your out 4k for another used unit.

s1984

I have this BMW transmission -> JZ adapter plate sitting here.
I will take a proof picture later when i´m in the garage.

Because i will stay with a built ATFspeed auto i´m selling it.
If anyone is interested.

I´ve got made some flywheel spacers too, which moves the flywheel to the input shaft.
Because the input shaft will not reach the pilot bearing when not used.

But pictures will come this afternoon/ evening...

Ali SC3

iTrader: (10)

its could be that the input shaft is long enough even with the adapter depending on how thick it is.
setup is similar to the toyota setup just the fork is bmw style.

I dont see how spacing the flywheel out will help with the pilot bearing, that should only be how thick the adapter is and how long the input shaft sticks past the bellhousing.

seems like a lot of info is missing, I am sure everything need some playing around with but it may be worth figuring out and then it wouldn't be so bad later. I am pretty far off from doing this sort of project but interested to help figure it out.

wanganstyl

iTrader: (5)

Update from the BMW side of the internet (with photos of 2j+ bmw gearbox)

http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/sh...8-2jz-m3-trans

BMW 6 speed gearboxes are avail from E46M3, also avail from E46/e39/e60 non-M cars and all 2005+ newer cars are manual 6 speeds; they stopped making 5 speed cars around then. (market is about $1500)

BMW V8 Getrag 6 speed gearboxes are even more common as they were ONLY made in 6 speed since 1996; they use a different bellhouse pattern but are the same gearbox as the I6 unit- just use different bellhousings. IF one is making a custom adapter to bolt to a TOYOTA engine it really should not matter.

BMW v8 6mt getrags are used in the e34/E39 540i and M5. Cheap - market is about $900 bux for one and they will take the power from a supercharged 540i / M5 v8 without much care

BMW 5 speed gearboxes are also very common and take over 500rwhp in NA+T BMW's very often.
These are found in 5 speed close ratio with 1:1 5th or 5 speed with overdrive; made by Getrag and ZF

BMW guys like boost just as much as SC300/SC400 guys; Most never had the option for a factory turbocharged car in the 1980-2005 vintage era so aftermarket boost is quite popular.

**********


Some details that will help solve the conversion issues of the BMW gearbox into a toyota with 2jz engine:

1. The ZF 2005+ 6 speed BMW gearboxes used an updated flywheel with the PILOT BEARING INSIDE THE FLYWHEEL - This can help us avoid the 2jz + pilot bearing compatibility entirely; just run the bearing that comes with the flywheel or an aftermarket single mass unit

if using a standard in crankshaft style BMW gearbox (all prior to 2005 6 speeds) + a 2jz It seems the pilot bearing is a funny item but cannot be more than a OD + ID + width combination

2. in the BMW family there are longer clutch slave rods that will interchange as well as taller stack height Throw out bearings. the rod from a G260 getrag 5 speed is longer than the ZF 5 or 6 speed slave rods ; one can just cut down to suit.

3. The 2004-2008.5 ZF 6 speed flywheels share the same pattern as a 2jz; the 2008.5+ and newer flywheels may have less bolt #.
4. The 2004-2008.5 ZF 6 speed flywheels can bolt on a 135i / 335i / twin turbo engine N54b30 clutch; These are daily driver ok and can take 450rwhp proven on various dynos by tuners.
5. the E36 M3 clutch in stock form is proven to take around 400rwhp in stock form - organic and very easy to drive around town.
6. stage 1-10 clutch sets including street ok twin discs for #4 and #5 are very popular in the aftermarket.

The 2jz bellhousings have traditionally been narrow; BMW bellhousings are also quite narrow; C009 nissan 6 speed will not fit some toyota chassis designed for the W55/w58 - SXE10 won't take it.

BMW shifter is also the EASIEST of all to deal with; to make the shifter just requires only 2 things:

mount a pivot ball point for the shift stick to your chassis, you can just bolt shift carrier to your TOYOTA chassis or extend it / shorten it under the shifting hole to the body like factory BMW- BMW also shares shift carrier compatiblity between 3, 5, 7 (euro) series cars - one can pick what length of shift carrier after sorting it out and just purchase one new from BMW (about $60)

the selector rod is just extended to center the shift lever in the chassis hole. Extremely simple; no oil or strange mounting like a W58 / R154 / CD009

*************************
the 2005+ ZF transmission is also more common than any other 6 speed units from bmw cars; I6 cars are all 6mt zf 2005+

I put one of these 2005 gearboxes into a 1987 325 with a 1985 SOHC M20 engine; it was easy to mount the transmission as there is a plate at the back of the gearbox that bolts with 4 screws; this mounts to the rubber mountings and then to the chassis brace for the transmission.

One can easily make a brace to adapt to a toyota transmission -> chassis mount or adapt one of the various avail bmw "f body mount" adapters to work with the toyota mountings.


some photos of BMW zf 2005+ 6 speed + inline 6 install (retrofit)



http://www.r3vlimited.com/board/show...6&postcount=95

Osbornecox

s1984, any pics of the adapter plate you have?

Ali SC3

iTrader: (10)

well that is pretty great that the pilot bearing is in the flywheel, that removes most of the problems then I would imagine. I figured it had to be something like that because in all the stuff I read about it no one mentioned anything about a custom part there.

Also watch out for the splines on the input shaft if using a v8 or other model of the 6spd (non M3) with a I6 manual bellhousing. certain models have a much larger number of input splines, something like 22 or 23 splines vs the m3 standard spline that has like less than 10 splines (5 or 7 maybe I forgot). the point is the trans is the same, but the clutch disc for an m3 will not fit on them so you might not have as great cluch selection. just take a look at the input shaft and you will know which kind it is.

wanganstyl

iTrader: (5)

BMW V8 bellhouse is NOT the same pattern as the I6 bellhousing - NOT COMPATIBLE;
One would have to bolt on a I6 bellhouse to fit it to a JZ adapter plate


the V8 Getrag 6 speed in e39m5, e34 540i, e39 540i shares the same 10 large spline input shaft as the E46 M3.

the E36 M3 ZF 5 speed has a 10 spline Small input shaft, This is the most easily purchased unit as it is used in e36 328i, e39 528i, e46 330i/328i


ALL ABOVE have pilot bearing INSIDE the crankshaft; if the crank is a JZ then the beaing will have to have:

2jz OD, bmw ID. A search for OEM technical specifications and a phone call to a bearing supplier would solve this.


[U]from 2005-2008.5+ BMW changed the position of the bearing

ZF 2005+ 6 speed units have throw out bearings in flywheel; also 22 spline small input shaft
these gearboxes are from:

e46 330i 6mt, e60 530i 6mt, Z4 3.0, e92 328i, 128i, e93 335i, 535i


The ZF 6 speed boxes also have the F-body type mounting plate attachment standard; basically 4 bolts mount a bracket to the gearbox; One could make a bolt on adapter to mate with a Toyota trans X member; This would be easier than adapting the ears of the older transmissions.

The 2008.5+ gearboxes have the pilot bearing moved inside the gearbox input; the flywheel has a pokey extender that goes into the input shaft for support. This is bolted to the flywheel it seems; I have not adapted one of these but do know they have been adapted to other BMW engines non native from the factory.

Basically the best transmission (in my opinion) to use would be:

2006-2008.5 335i twin turbo - its gearing spacing is designed for TWIN TURBO and also the torque output its rated for is quite high.

the weakest of the BMW gearboxes would be the ZFSG320 5 speed (e36M3) - they are reliable @ 500-600rwhp in street cars that are not drag raced with slicks.

the 6 speed Getrag 420 box (e46M3) is known to take over 1200rwhp in turbocharged applicatons.

Both would be better alternatives to a R154 or V160/161.

MUCH NEWER; USA avail., Same factory makes them.


in 2006+ BMW decded that Getrag and ZF would team up to make their transmissions; the units for the 335i/535i/euro 335D &535D are made with parts from ZF AND Getrag; the final assembly is at ZF OR getrag and the branding is also ZF OR getrag.

How is that for a confusing brain screw puzzle?


I spent WAAAAAAY tooo much time researching these boxes for my own BMW 1985 engine -> 2006 gearbox retrofit

HiPSI

iTrader: (2)

Now we just need to figure out how to use BMW clutch / flywheel components with the adapter on the 2JZ! Someone's got to have tried it with success that can share how to do it without the $2300 ABC Tilton clutch unit.

wanganstyl

iTrader: (5)

Its been done many times - the BMW dual mass flywheel just bolts on to the JZ engine with V161 dual mass bolts; some have cut off ZF bellhouse and BMW bellhouse and welded it on.

BMW OEM clutch for a 335i turbo will hold 450rwhp++

Nobody is going to want to drive a tilton clutch on the street; that is just retarded.

Ali SC3

iTrader: (10)

I know the v8 bell housing is not the same it obviously has place for 2 starters and a different pattern but I said v8 transmission with the I6 bellhousing, yes you would have to swap the bell housings out and the bells are getting harder to find.
If you could find a bell though you could save a lot of dough, or if you already had a e46 M3 box with issues you can get a replacement v8 box or SMG box and just swap your bell housing over (smg box needs slave cly and shifter swapped in addition).
basically if you ever broke it it would be even cheaper to replace, i see whole v8 transmission go for 6-800 all the time. the e46 full 6 speed boxes start at like 1500. SMG is similar to the v8 price but missing shifter and the bellhousing mods (although there is a guy on the bmw forum who says he can mod the smg bell housing for $95, or just swap with a already manual bellhousing).

As far as I understand the E46 M3 6 speed "420" box is the one we want to use.