2jzge Na-t No Start Problem
12-30-13, 11:51 AM
#31
Im not expecting much at all, im not wanting to drive the thing at all, just want it to start and idle correctly. I would hate to take it to the tuners only for it to have something wrong with it (not related to the tune) and have to pay them to fix it or have to trailer it right back home. Map sensor is plumbed directly into one of the vaccum nipples right off the throttle body.
Fix that, then make sure you are getting the right load signal around -8 psi at idle, and then adjust the fuel map up or down to get a decent AFR 13-14 range, then if you have an idle valve go to idle map and mess with the idle % to get a right idle you want it where idle learned is like -2 to -3%, that should get you started.
don't tune to 15 AFR on the idle at this point you will just be more likely to swing lean, aim for 13-14 for now and let the o2 feedback do the rest later or when your tuner sets it up.
12-30-13, 06:12 PM
#32
which vacuum port? not the ones on the top I hope. 2 of the 3 of those are ported in a manner that they only see part vacuum at certain times to engage various emissions components. they are not a true reflection of the manifold pressure. use one directly off the intake or to be safe Tee into the line going to the fuel pressure regulator.
Fix that, then make sure you are getting the right load signal around -8 psi at idle, and then adjust the fuel map up or down to get a decent AFR 13-14 range, then if you have an idle valve go to idle map and mess with the idle % to get a right idle you want it where idle learned is like -2 to -3%, that should get you started.
don't tune to 15 AFR on the idle at this point you will just be more likely to swing lean, aim for 13-14 for now and let the o2 feedback do the rest later or when your tuner sets it up.
Fix that, then make sure you are getting the right load signal around -8 psi at idle, and then adjust the fuel map up or down to get a decent AFR 13-14 range, then if you have an idle valve go to idle map and mess with the idle % to get a right idle you want it where idle learned is like -2 to -3%, that should get you started.
don't tune to 15 AFR on the idle at this point you will just be more likely to swing lean, aim for 13-14 for now and let the o2 feedback do the rest later or when your tuner sets it up.
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Im not getting very good vacuum readings right now. when its sputtering an missing trying to idle the vac is around 2/3 on the boost gauge and the needle shakes back and fourth violently.
12-30-13, 06:36 PM
#33
do the vac readings on the aem jump around the same values though, or half of the values if the gauge is not in psi?
another thing I noticed that I haven't had to deal with is that hose that runs over from the throttle body to the *edit* lower intake runner where the injectors sit *. not sure if its a cali thing or 96 and 97 or both. It tends to get very hard over the years and causes vacuum leaks. In fact I don't know if you want to be shooting boost down there anyways its normally set up to put vac on the injectors during idle, at other times I am not sure what its doing but if you have a vac leak it can cause misfires and run rich, and well that hose looks pretty cracked from here.
its either a leak like that somewhere or a maybe even an injector issue.
another thing I noticed that I haven't had to deal with is that hose that runs over from the throttle body to the *edit* lower intake runner where the injectors sit *. not sure if its a cali thing or 96 and 97 or both. It tends to get very hard over the years and causes vacuum leaks. In fact I don't know if you want to be shooting boost down there anyways its normally set up to put vac on the injectors during idle, at other times I am not sure what its doing but if you have a vac leak it can cause misfires and run rich, and well that hose looks pretty cracked from here.
its either a leak like that somewhere or a maybe even an injector issue.
Last edited by Ali SC3; 12-30-13 at 06:50 PM.
12-30-13, 06:46 PM
#34
I will take another vid of it running tomorrow so you can see exactly what its reading I cant remember exactly how its reading in association with the boost gauge. Should I maybe try removing that large vacuum hose or will that lead to more issues?
12-30-13, 06:57 PM
#35
I would try to cap both ends of it if possible. probably some large vacuum caps and some tie's, could be related to your issue in boost, I searched for info on it but haven;t seen much other than those people saying they switched to the older runners, but there is probably a way to run it who knows it may be fine to leave it just make sure its not leaking. where it touches the hardpipe it usually gets brittle and looses the seal, as with most large vac hoses in the engine bay like the pcv hose and o-ring. *edit removed some stuff wrong thread*
Last edited by Ali SC3; 12-30-13 at 07:07 PM.
12-30-13, 07:04 PM
#36
Things kind of go wrong as soon as it starts lol. When it fires it idles around 800/1000rpms and jumps around between the two. AFR during this time starts around 13 then goes to 12 - 11 - 10 and floods out and dies. The entire time sounding like its running on 3 or 4 cylinders. I cant see it being an injector isssue as the 660cc had the exact same characteristics.
12-30-13, 07:24 PM
#37
I got a little confused with another thread I was reading.
yeah that video will be great the aem tells you everything you need to know and you can see alot on the help view which is the little hospital button at the top.
generally I check for timing errors on the aem ems, set up all the sensors and make sure the sensors are reading things that make sense, and if getting none of those problems especially timing errors I would look to the fuel map and move it richer or leaner by highlighting the whole fuel map and right click and there is a percent change option, entering 90% here means you want 10% less fuel than you have right now. if you want 10% more fuel you would enter 110%. you can choose your increments but realize taking away lots of fuel is not a great idea if you go too far but the basemap is set rich to a certain degree and with the wideband you can usually tell whats happening.
If taking out some fuel it starts to clear up, then continue until you get the wideband to read in the proper range.
the ignition you shouldn't have to mess with too much besides setting it with the light and aem pro.
yeah that video will be great the aem tells you everything you need to know and you can see alot on the help view which is the little hospital button at the top.
generally I check for timing errors on the aem ems, set up all the sensors and make sure the sensors are reading things that make sense, and if getting none of those problems especially timing errors I would look to the fuel map and move it richer or leaner by highlighting the whole fuel map and right click and there is a percent change option, entering 90% here means you want 10% less fuel than you have right now. if you want 10% more fuel you would enter 110%. you can choose your increments but realize taking away lots of fuel is not a great idea if you go too far but the basemap is set rich to a certain degree and with the wideband you can usually tell whats happening.
If taking out some fuel it starts to clear up, then continue until you get the wideband to read in the proper range.
the ignition you shouldn't have to mess with too much besides setting it with the light and aem pro.
01-01-14, 10:59 AM
#40
all your vac sources you are using are wrong
power steering , just loop a piece of vac hose on the power steering fitting
map sensor should never ever be tee'd . always should have a dedicated source ...
fpr also needs it own source ( that one you can use the port that you were using for power steering)
all the ports on top of throttle body needs to be capped , do not use them for constant vac source
if your are standing over the drivers fender looking at engine and the intake plen , there is a hidden vac port on the lower right hand corner of plen , screw the fitting out and screw in a 1/8 npt to 1/4 nipple fitting and use that for vac for map sensor , also map sensor needs to be away from the heat in that area that you currently have it and mount it against the firewall , very easy to do (looks like from the video you are using that for boost gauge ... use it dedicated for map instead and find another source for boost gauge in fact tee off the bov line for boost gauge .. your iat is to close to premature heat from turbo hotside , id move that down to piping coming out of cold side of intercooler for more stable reading
id take a pic of the vac source im mentioning but ive been on ffim so long i don even have a na intake laying around anymore
take care of these things first , then we can help going forward
also just noticed on your video the line you have running to acis valve( which btw you'd be better off removing the butterfly in the y plen and removing the assembly )..
under the throttle body /just around the y area ,theres a nipple for where the correct vac source runs to the valve you are mentioning
power steering , just loop a piece of vac hose on the power steering fitting
map sensor should never ever be tee'd . always should have a dedicated source ...
fpr also needs it own source ( that one you can use the port that you were using for power steering)
all the ports on top of throttle body needs to be capped , do not use them for constant vac source
if your are standing over the drivers fender looking at engine and the intake plen , there is a hidden vac port on the lower right hand corner of plen , screw the fitting out and screw in a 1/8 npt to 1/4 nipple fitting and use that for vac for map sensor , also map sensor needs to be away from the heat in that area that you currently have it and mount it against the firewall , very easy to do (looks like from the video you are using that for boost gauge ... use it dedicated for map instead and find another source for boost gauge in fact tee off the bov line for boost gauge .. your iat is to close to premature heat from turbo hotside , id move that down to piping coming out of cold side of intercooler for more stable reading
id take a pic of the vac source im mentioning but ive been on ffim so long i don even have a na intake laying around anymore
take care of these things first , then we can help going forward
also just noticed on your video the line you have running to acis valve( which btw you'd be better off removing the butterfly in the y plen and removing the assembly )..
under the throttle body /just around the y area ,theres a nipple for where the correct vac source runs to the valve you are mentioning
Last edited by lexforlife; 01-01-14 at 11:13 AM.
01-01-14, 11:36 AM
#41
I think the vac sources are done fine except for the one for your blow off valve, its not going to blow off like that.
where the power steering vac line goes into the hard line on the drivers side, it comes out on the passenger side and its supossed to be connected to the intake or an air filter, so the power steering idle up works. when you connect that side to the bov it doesn't see the pressure difference from fresh filter air vs intake air so the switch doesn't work. when the switch isn't open also the bov does not get any vacuum and wierd things will happen.
Tee in the BOV to the first vac line for the power steering, where it comes from the intake to the power steering nipple valve thing. then connect a vac hose to the left over hard line and run it to the intake. then the BOV will work and your power steering will idle up like normal. you can loop them like lexforlife said but you won't get the idle up so your idle will dip if you turn hard on the steering wheel when stopped and stuff like that.
I tee my map sensor into the FPR it does not have to always be dedicated but it is good advice. there are not that many extra spots on the n/a intake to use but there is the one that has a plug in there factory as mentioned towards the brake booster but I still just tee it at the FPR. the map sensor is tied to what the fuel pressure is doing so it works well, you can change it to dedicated but I don't think its the problem.
It is not better to remove ACIS, you definately pick up power on the stock intake with it like factory and turned on in the settings, or like how you have hardwired it to vacuum/boost it will still help with spool but with the factory vac tank and the aem controlling it that would have spooled a little better even.
where the power steering vac line goes into the hard line on the drivers side, it comes out on the passenger side and its supossed to be connected to the intake or an air filter, so the power steering idle up works. when you connect that side to the bov it doesn't see the pressure difference from fresh filter air vs intake air so the switch doesn't work. when the switch isn't open also the bov does not get any vacuum and wierd things will happen.
Tee in the BOV to the first vac line for the power steering, where it comes from the intake to the power steering nipple valve thing. then connect a vac hose to the left over hard line and run it to the intake. then the BOV will work and your power steering will idle up like normal. you can loop them like lexforlife said but you won't get the idle up so your idle will dip if you turn hard on the steering wheel when stopped and stuff like that.
I tee my map sensor into the FPR it does not have to always be dedicated but it is good advice. there are not that many extra spots on the n/a intake to use but there is the one that has a plug in there factory as mentioned towards the brake booster but I still just tee it at the FPR. the map sensor is tied to what the fuel pressure is doing so it works well, you can change it to dedicated but I don't think its the problem.
It is not better to remove ACIS, you definately pick up power on the stock intake with it like factory and turned on in the settings, or like how you have hardwired it to vacuum/boost it will still help with spool but with the factory vac tank and the aem controlling it that would have spooled a little better even.
01-01-14, 12:24 PM
#42
the acis is a restriction , when i removed mine we actually picked up spool , just saying
i am not saying this is the route cause of issues but let him correct these then we work from there
when it comes to aem , alpha has always taught me and crispeed as well , to make sure map sensor is away from heat and vibration and should always be on a dedicated vac source . fpr should be as well but not as critical unless running elevated boost levels
he needs to cap off all ports on top of throttle body , did you cap of egr port as well ... i see a open vac port also in video by the y plen
i am not saying this is the route cause of issues but let him correct these then we work from there
when it comes to aem , alpha has always taught me and crispeed as well , to make sure map sensor is away from heat and vibration and should always be on a dedicated vac source . fpr should be as well but not as critical unless running elevated boost levels
he needs to cap off all ports on top of throttle body , did you cap of egr port as well ... i see a open vac port also in video by the y plen
01-01-14, 05:58 PM
#43
With acis working I know I have picked up spool, I did a lot of experimenting with it. There is a dyno thread on supra forums where the settings I used came from showing the power gains, I'll have to search for it. Removing it completely would make it like a short runner, it's possible you didn't try it with the right settings and default in aem is off but turning it on makes a huge difference in spool, sounds crazy but it feels like 500rpm difference on mine and the whole power band comes on faster, even compared to the ffim.
The top ports don't all need to go, the one closest to the firewall is for the acis, and he has it going to the butterfly which the easy way to bypass the canister and all that stuff. You get long runner in vac which helps spool, and you get short runner in boost, which is good for max hp. The only thing you loose vs the factory vac canister setup is you get long runner in cruise which is opposite of factory, which hurts mpg but gives you more torque on tap which i prefer now actually. I have mine bypassed the same way now and seems to work pretty nice.
The map sensor should be on dedicated when possible, but I have never had any change between dedicated and the way above, and for quite a while even had it tapped straight into my ffim which got pretty hot but gave perfect readings. The Toyota ones are more fragile but the aem ones are better.
I think his should start. Play with the fuel some and check the settings again.
The top ports don't all need to go, the one closest to the firewall is for the acis, and he has it going to the butterfly which the easy way to bypass the canister and all that stuff. You get long runner in vac which helps spool, and you get short runner in boost, which is good for max hp. The only thing you loose vs the factory vac canister setup is you get long runner in cruise which is opposite of factory, which hurts mpg but gives you more torque on tap which i prefer now actually. I have mine bypassed the same way now and seems to work pretty nice.
The map sensor should be on dedicated when possible, but I have never had any change between dedicated and the way above, and for quite a while even had it tapped straight into my ffim which got pretty hot but gave perfect readings. The Toyota ones are more fragile but the aem ones are better.
I think his should start. Play with the fuel some and check the settings again.