coil pack
05-14-13, 10:40 AM
#46
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first picture is the "sensor" or "connection" that the wire is leading up to... notice the black tab in the middle lower right of the picture, it is holding a wire in place... second pictures shows that wire removed from the holding tab ( I put it in the holding tab after my car broke down recently, not thinking much of it. as it was rubbing on the belt...) what is this wire??? thanks guys.
05-14-13, 12:20 PM
#47
is that the connector that goes to the coil? I couldn't tell you unless I see the other end of where that wire goes.
If its the cam sensor or coil wires it could explain your issue, it looks pretty damaged cause I can see strands of wire.
I would recommend replacing the bad part of the wire and make sure it cannot touch the belt or it will happen again.
If its the cam sensor or coil wires it could explain your issue, it looks pretty damaged cause I can see strands of wire.
I would recommend replacing the bad part of the wire and make sure it cannot touch the belt or it will happen again.
05-14-13, 12:22 PM
#48
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no, it looks like it goes from the lower block to the injectors... sort of... im sure some sc400 gurus know what that wire is.... ive been trying look, ill keep looking. just trying to get confirmation
05-14-13, 12:39 PM
#49
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looks like I gotta follow that red wire, see where it is going. the top has red/green, bottom has red/yellow... red looks cut...on bottom... leading to the block
(first pic shows a faint rubbery circle where the wire enters the block. that should give hint to what it is, but I don't have enough expertise, still lookin.)
(first pic shows a faint rubbery circle where the wire enters the block. that should give hint to what it is, but I don't have enough expertise, still lookin.)
05-14-13, 01:36 PM
#50
I see it coming out of the block to the connector, but then where does it go from that connector?
you said injectors.. sort of, which is helpful.. sort of.
Not too many 1uz gurus around so you may just want to start by repairing that wire and see if it helps because it is clearly pretty messed up looking.
you said injectors.. sort of, which is helpful.. sort of.
Not too many 1uz gurus around so you may just want to start by repairing that wire and see if it helps because it is clearly pretty messed up looking.
05-14-13, 03:46 PM
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Roger that sc3, i will do that but may not have a chance until first thing this Saturday. in the meantime I'll still try to figure out exactly what it is, just for peace of mind until Saturday. also, could you give me the cliff notes on how you might go about repairing that wire based off the picture? I've done some minor wiring with things like in dash touch screens, but never on an engine. Thanks, and I really appreciate all your help man
05-15-13, 09:06 AM
#52
Its the same principal, it just depends on what method you are comfortable with.
the prep is all the same though, you are going to want to cut the wire on both sides of the damaged part, and then strip the insulation off enough to make a new connection, you will need to get some insulated wire of the same gauge (note the wire thickness, and also how much stranded wire is inside and compare to your new wire), then you will make your new wire the length to make up for what you cut out, and then you have a couple options, but I would recommend soldering the connections as they hold up best or using some type of weatherpack connector (need to get proper crimping tools and connectors), but for a simple wire repair like this I would just solder. I usually use the connector method when adding stuff to a harness so it can be removed if needed later.
tips for getting a low resistance connection:
strip the insulation off and leave the strads of wire sticking out as they are, dont bend or twist them, repreat with the replacement new wire.
hold both of them so that the strands are facing each other, and slowly push them together so that the strands slip into each other and stay straight, if a few bend just pinch them back straight and once together you can squeeze them to the point where they almost look like one thicker wire.
Now when you go to solder, you don't touch the soldering iron to the solder and try and drop it on the wire, thats a big no no most people start out doing, and you are basically just coating the outside of the wire, this can add resistance to the circuit = not good.
First heat up the iron, it has to be all the way hot, anything less and this method won't work properly.
what you want to do, is touch the solder to the tip of the soldering gun so you get a small blob on there, let it heat up for a second, then hold the iron and blob against the side of the joint you want to solder with a little bit of pressure (you will hold it here till you are done). this allows the soldering iron to transfer its heat to the wire, getting the wire up to soldering temp.
If you watch close enough and your iron is hot enough, you will see in a few seconds, the strands of the wire will actually change a shade of color, and that means the wire is hot and ready, and while holding the iron against the side still, you now touch the solder to the strands of wire at the joint (do not touch the solder to the iron), it will melt on contact and it will magically get sucked all the way into the center of the joint, move the wire around till its well filled with solder.
If the solder does not melt when you touch it to the wire, the iron is not hot enough, or you didn't make the blob big enough to transfer the heat, or the 2 wires aren't touching each other enough. The reason you do not touch the solder to the iron, is because the iron is usually hot enough to melt the solder no matter what temp the wire is, so if you just touch the solder to the iron and try and "coat" the wire, its just a fancy coating on the top and makes a bad connection because the wire does not actually bond with the solder cause its too cold. When you heat the wire properly and the wire melts the solder, you know the metals are at the right temp and you get a perfect connection every time that should provide no more resistance than the wire it replaced.
There are other ways to line up the 2 pieces other than the straight method, but that is the most common one you encounter.
I don't recommend using crimp connectors on anything important, although lots of people do but I just can't recommend that, and although you could just twist the wires together and tape them up with masking tape, this isn't the best for things in the engine bay as the heat will wear the tape down over time and you could get shorting down the road, and it also does not make very good connections.
I may do these 2 on a car stereo or something that experiences less heat and vibration than an engine bay.
the prep is all the same though, you are going to want to cut the wire on both sides of the damaged part, and then strip the insulation off enough to make a new connection, you will need to get some insulated wire of the same gauge (note the wire thickness, and also how much stranded wire is inside and compare to your new wire), then you will make your new wire the length to make up for what you cut out, and then you have a couple options, but I would recommend soldering the connections as they hold up best or using some type of weatherpack connector (need to get proper crimping tools and connectors), but for a simple wire repair like this I would just solder. I usually use the connector method when adding stuff to a harness so it can be removed if needed later.
tips for getting a low resistance connection:
strip the insulation off and leave the strads of wire sticking out as they are, dont bend or twist them, repreat with the replacement new wire.
hold both of them so that the strands are facing each other, and slowly push them together so that the strands slip into each other and stay straight, if a few bend just pinch them back straight and once together you can squeeze them to the point where they almost look like one thicker wire.
Now when you go to solder, you don't touch the soldering iron to the solder and try and drop it on the wire, thats a big no no most people start out doing, and you are basically just coating the outside of the wire, this can add resistance to the circuit = not good.
First heat up the iron, it has to be all the way hot, anything less and this method won't work properly.
what you want to do, is touch the solder to the tip of the soldering gun so you get a small blob on there, let it heat up for a second, then hold the iron and blob against the side of the joint you want to solder with a little bit of pressure (you will hold it here till you are done). this allows the soldering iron to transfer its heat to the wire, getting the wire up to soldering temp.
If you watch close enough and your iron is hot enough, you will see in a few seconds, the strands of the wire will actually change a shade of color, and that means the wire is hot and ready, and while holding the iron against the side still, you now touch the solder to the strands of wire at the joint (do not touch the solder to the iron), it will melt on contact and it will magically get sucked all the way into the center of the joint, move the wire around till its well filled with solder.
If the solder does not melt when you touch it to the wire, the iron is not hot enough, or you didn't make the blob big enough to transfer the heat, or the 2 wires aren't touching each other enough. The reason you do not touch the solder to the iron, is because the iron is usually hot enough to melt the solder no matter what temp the wire is, so if you just touch the solder to the iron and try and "coat" the wire, its just a fancy coating on the top and makes a bad connection because the wire does not actually bond with the solder cause its too cold. When you heat the wire properly and the wire melts the solder, you know the metals are at the right temp and you get a perfect connection every time that should provide no more resistance than the wire it replaced.
There are other ways to line up the 2 pieces other than the straight method, but that is the most common one you encounter.
I don't recommend using crimp connectors on anything important, although lots of people do but I just can't recommend that, and although you could just twist the wires together and tape them up with masking tape, this isn't the best for things in the engine bay as the heat will wear the tape down over time and you could get shorting down the road, and it also does not make very good connections.
I may do these 2 on a car stereo or something that experiences less heat and vibration than an engine bay.
Last edited by Ali SC3; 05-15-13 at 09:29 AM.
05-15-13, 10:22 AM
#53
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Ali SC3 thank you for the detailed post.
I do have very little soldering experience, and no iron @ the time anyhow. I think this is important enough to warrant doing the job correctly.
I suppose that brings me to replacing the sensor all together? Saw them for about $100 give or take. I will research that.. I also found some information on an older post that is giving me some assurance.
Originally Posted by Chin View Post
If a camshaft position sensor or the crankshaft position sensor was bad, would either of them prevent the car from starting? If they do prevent the car from starting, how does it do so? Not provide spark or fuel? Thanks.
If one or both of the camshaft position sensors are bad the car will still start and run. What happens is that the car can't adjust the timing.
I think that pretty well explains the ability of the motor to rev in neutral pretty well, yet unable to rev while under load, as there is no timing signal, so there is no power being produced. If it is running "open signal", it too explains the fuel smell.
Hope this is it
I do have very little soldering experience, and no iron @ the time anyhow. I think this is important enough to warrant doing the job correctly.
I suppose that brings me to replacing the sensor all together? Saw them for about $100 give or take. I will research that.. I also found some information on an older post that is giving me some assurance.
Originally Posted by Chin View Post
If a camshaft position sensor or the crankshaft position sensor was bad, would either of them prevent the car from starting? If they do prevent the car from starting, how does it do so? Not provide spark or fuel? Thanks.
If one or both of the camshaft position sensors are bad the car will still start and run. What happens is that the car can't adjust the timing.
I think that pretty well explains the ability of the motor to rev in neutral pretty well, yet unable to rev while under load, as there is no timing signal, so there is no power being produced. If it is running "open signal", it too explains the fuel smell.
Hope this is it
05-15-13, 11:00 AM
#54
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basically what you said sc3 which = If its the cam sensor or coil wires it could explain your issue, it looks pretty damaged cause I can see strands of wire.
right on
right on
05-15-13, 12:02 PM
#55
yeah if its a cam sensor that can cause all sorts of problems, the manual will tell you what to look for if a sensor is bad but the symptoms can vary alot. To be honest I wouldn't change the sensor out or spend $100 on a new one, I would just repair the wire first. They do go bad from time to time, but its not all that common its just a magnet and with damaged wires the wires alone could be the issue.
do the wires come from the main harness before that grey connector, I am thinking the sensor is probably behind that rubber plug.
do the wires come from the main harness before that grey connector, I am thinking the sensor is probably behind that rubber plug.
05-16-13, 11:08 AM
#56
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Yea, i was assuming that rubber plug leads to the sensor, and has the 2 wires coming out of it. 1 of which is completely chewed through. Not sure where the wires go, haven't been under the hood in a few days. Cant wait to fix it though, I will just do a simple wiring job first, see if I can get it running correctly. Then take it from there. I might just have to reconnect the red wire. Ill know if it is fixed right on start up
Last edited by soflo99; 05-16-13 at 11:13 AM.
05-17-13, 11:43 AM
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Alisc3, I know it isn't your first recommendation, but I will end up doing a crimp connection, accompanied by an adhesive heat-shrink tubing.
It is what I feel comfortable doing...
Any tips? Going to go to home depot and pick up some tools for the job...Had 1 question though. Only the red wire is damaged, should I try to just fix this wire, or cut out a good half inch or so out the the existing, and re-wire BOTH wires.
thanks. sorry for sounding like a rook. in more ways than not, I am.
It is what I feel comfortable doing...
Any tips? Going to go to home depot and pick up some tools for the job...Had 1 question though. Only the red wire is damaged, should I try to just fix this wire, or cut out a good half inch or so out the the existing, and re-wire BOTH wires.
thanks. sorry for sounding like a rook. in more ways than not, I am.
05-17-13, 03:50 PM
#58
Alisc3, I know it isn't your first recommendation, but I will end up doing a crimp connection, accompanied by an adhesive heat-shrink tubing.
It is what I feel comfortable doing...
Any tips? Going to go to home depot and pick up some tools for the job...Had 1 question though. Only the red wire is damaged, should I try to just fix this wire, or cut out a good half inch or so out the the existing, and re-wire BOTH wires.
thanks. sorry for sounding like a rook. in more ways than not, I am.
It is what I feel comfortable doing...
Any tips? Going to go to home depot and pick up some tools for the job...Had 1 question though. Only the red wire is damaged, should I try to just fix this wire, or cut out a good half inch or so out the the existing, and re-wire BOTH wires.
thanks. sorry for sounding like a rook. in more ways than not, I am.
If only one wire is damaged then just fix that wire, I wouldn't cut the undamaged wire, you should just fix the one that is damaged. you can do the crimp for now but I would look into something better for the future, soldering is actually pretty easy you just have to know the process, so just practice a few times on spare wires.
I just put it detailed so people searching will know the proper way to solder if they are learning and don't know how, I know I was doing it wrong before I learnt how in a class.
05-17-13, 05:38 PM
#59
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I understand, and your details are on point..
by the way, I just disconnected my cam sensor plug on my driver side and my car has no difference in performance whatsoever, that pretty much tells me that was the problem right? I will be working on it tomorrow.
by the way, I just disconnected my cam sensor plug on my driver side and my car has no difference in performance whatsoever, that pretty much tells me that was the problem right? I will be working on it tomorrow.
05-20-13, 06:50 AM
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Ok... this gets ever more interesting...
So, I go outside Saturday morning, take a look @ the cam sensor wire...notice the insulation wires is shredded though, but not the red wire completely. This made me hesitant to go chopping into it, as I didn't even have proper tools on hand. (forgot to get a ride to the store night prior). So, I tape it up a bit, and put it firmly back in it's clip. Try to start the car - same *****. Took a deep sigh and figured, let me check my coil packs again. I did it just to do it. Long story short, put my OLD coil pack back in the passenger side, and VROOM. She fire right up!!!! Sounded great, I was amazed.... I took it around the block, everything gravy...
I did notice my t-belt kinda shredding though, and dragging strands of itself near the edge of the belt as it rotated so to speak. Clipped the couple strands off so they wouldn't catch, and figured " I'll park it tonight, figure out where to get the t-belt done, but glad I fixed the main problem"
Well, Sunday I come home about Noon, was about to detail the car and get it ready for the shop. I decide to crank her up and the same crap idle came back with no power. I immediately went in the house and consumed a six pack.
I went back outside, cleared the codes, pulled the codes, and got a code "13". RPM SIGNAL. So I was thinking/researching this and have some questions
Question is, I had a glimpse of everything working, started and stopped the car 10-12 times with great results. It didn't start after fiddling with the cam sensor wire, but after swapping my coil pack.. it did.
So, could my "new" coil pack be bad, and my "old" one works intermittently? (I touched the passenger side could pack where the wire goes into the coil pack while the motor was running. It shocked the hell out of me, does that confirm it's functionality? ha)
If I am grounding out somehow, where are good places to check?
Could the strands dragging behind the timing belt pulled the belt a couple teeth while I took it around the block? It was running and idling fine when I parked the car, which doesn't necessarily lead one to believe the timing was suddenly thrown off in those 3 minutes of driving. Seems doubtful.
Lastly, I suppose the cam sensor could still be the issue, but again, I got the car to fire after wrapping coil pack back to original.
THANKS GUYS!
So, I go outside Saturday morning, take a look @ the cam sensor wire...notice the insulation wires is shredded though, but not the red wire completely. This made me hesitant to go chopping into it, as I didn't even have proper tools on hand. (forgot to get a ride to the store night prior). So, I tape it up a bit, and put it firmly back in it's clip. Try to start the car - same *****. Took a deep sigh and figured, let me check my coil packs again. I did it just to do it. Long story short, put my OLD coil pack back in the passenger side, and VROOM. She fire right up!!!! Sounded great, I was amazed.... I took it around the block, everything gravy...
I did notice my t-belt kinda shredding though, and dragging strands of itself near the edge of the belt as it rotated so to speak. Clipped the couple strands off so they wouldn't catch, and figured " I'll park it tonight, figure out where to get the t-belt done, but glad I fixed the main problem"
Well, Sunday I come home about Noon, was about to detail the car and get it ready for the shop. I decide to crank her up and the same crap idle came back with no power. I immediately went in the house and consumed a six pack.
I went back outside, cleared the codes, pulled the codes, and got a code "13". RPM SIGNAL. So I was thinking/researching this and have some questions
Question is, I had a glimpse of everything working, started and stopped the car 10-12 times with great results. It didn't start after fiddling with the cam sensor wire, but after swapping my coil pack.. it did.
So, could my "new" coil pack be bad, and my "old" one works intermittently? (I touched the passenger side could pack where the wire goes into the coil pack while the motor was running. It shocked the hell out of me, does that confirm it's functionality? ha)
If I am grounding out somehow, where are good places to check?
Could the strands dragging behind the timing belt pulled the belt a couple teeth while I took it around the block? It was running and idling fine when I parked the car, which doesn't necessarily lead one to believe the timing was suddenly thrown off in those 3 minutes of driving. Seems doubtful.
Lastly, I suppose the cam sensor could still be the issue, but again, I got the car to fire after wrapping coil pack back to original.
THANKS GUYS!
Last edited by soflo99; 05-20-13 at 06:54 AM.