1JZ with 440cc inj. + E85
05-23-12, 09:57 AM
#1
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1JZ with 440cc inj. + E85
Hello guys,
at first here is my engine setup i´m running.
It´s not a "real setup" i know...
-stock 1JZGTE
-Walbro fuel pump
-FMIC
-3" exhaust
-boost @ 0,9bar
Anything else is stock.
My plan was to install 440cc JDM injectors and run E85.
Because i need some more fuel i want to run the 440cc inj. and if i need to trim some fuel i´ll install my SAFC.
Okay i must change the fuel lines first i know but do you think it´s possible?
I don´t want to run big numbers, i only want to run E85 because of the costs.
Thanks for your help people.
PS: Sorry for my bad english....
at first here is my engine setup i´m running.
It´s not a "real setup" i know...
-stock 1JZGTE
-Walbro fuel pump
-FMIC
-3" exhaust
-boost @ 0,9bar
Anything else is stock.
My plan was to install 440cc JDM injectors and run E85.
Because i need some more fuel i want to run the 440cc inj. and if i need to trim some fuel i´ll install my SAFC.
Okay i must change the fuel lines first i know but do you think it´s possible?
I don´t want to run big numbers, i only want to run E85 because of the costs.
Thanks for your help people.
PS: Sorry for my bad english....
Last edited by s1984; 05-23-12 at 10:00 AM.
05-23-12, 01:20 PM
#2
1. You should be able to get away with the stock fuel lines as long as you replace the rubber pieces by the tank and fuel rails. They are quite beefy (comparable to a -6AN) and should easily survive anything a 440cc injector would flow.
2. Have you considered going to 550cc injectors? Stock ECU + SAFC handles them pretty well. It will give you more headroom for the E85 and let you turn up the boost.
3. I don't have any experience with stock ECU's and E85 so I can't say whether you can make it work or not. Maybe with a FPR it can be done but I was under the impression you really need standalone to handle E85 safely.
2. Have you considered going to 550cc injectors? Stock ECU + SAFC handles them pretty well. It will give you more headroom for the E85 and let you turn up the boost.
3. I don't have any experience with stock ECU's and E85 so I can't say whether you can make it work or not. Maybe with a FPR it can be done but I was under the impression you really need standalone to handle E85 safely.
05-23-12, 01:30 PM
#3
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Your plan of E-85 and stock ECU is a recipe for disaster as E requires 30% more volume and will play havoc on the fuel side of the factory ECU not to mention 440CC injectors would only get you to maybe 300 -320 and thats with a reasonable timing curve considering E , which is outside of the factory ECU parameters of timing.
Sorry but this whole idea is not a good one.
Sorry but this whole idea is not a good one.
05-23-12, 01:35 PM
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On a 1jz you can control around a 680cc injector with a Aftermarket piggyback FC IE: Super AFC. AEM FIC etc.etc.
As most piggyback FC typically only control up or down 50%of stock fuel ECU settings.
As most piggyback FC typically only control up or down 50%of stock fuel ECU settings.
05-23-12, 01:36 PM
#5
you actually wont be saving any money, in fact you will actually be spending more.
keep in mind that it takes approx 30% more e85 to match pump gas.
e85 national avg price is $3.23
national avg price for premium is $3.98
you have to use 30% more e85 so $3.23 x 30% = $4.20
the reason you see the guys with turbos going e85 is because you can have race gas octane for ALMOST pumpgas price and run around boosting ~26psi
there are other benefits with e85 such as more torque etc, but if your main reason is to save money then stick with the pump gas
keep in mind that it takes approx 30% more e85 to match pump gas.
e85 national avg price is $3.23
national avg price for premium is $3.98
you have to use 30% more e85 so $3.23 x 30% = $4.20
the reason you see the guys with turbos going e85 is because you can have race gas octane for ALMOST pumpgas price and run around boosting ~26psi
there are other benefits with e85 such as more torque etc, but if your main reason is to save money then stick with the pump gas
05-23-12, 01:45 PM
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you actually wont be saving any money, in fact you will actually be spending more.
keep in mind that it takes approx 30% more e85 to match pump gas.
e85 national avg price is $3.23
national avg price for premium is $3.98
you have to use 30% more e85 so $3.23 x 30% = $4.20
the reason you see the guys with turbos going e85 is because you can have race gas octane for ALMOST pumpgas price and run around boosting ~26psi
there are other benefits with e85 such as more torque etc, but if your main reason is to save money then stick with the pump gas
keep in mind that it takes approx 30% more e85 to match pump gas.
e85 national avg price is $3.23
national avg price for premium is $3.98
you have to use 30% more e85 so $3.23 x 30% = $4.20
the reason you see the guys with turbos going e85 is because you can have race gas octane for ALMOST pumpgas price and run around boosting ~26psi
there are other benefits with e85 such as more torque etc, but if your main reason is to save money then stick with the pump gas
Give this man^^^^^^^ a degree
Check my Signature for the proper use of E-85
05-23-12, 01:53 PM
#7
you can run e85 on the stock timing, but you are loosing the benefits of e85 as well then because with e85 you can dial in quite a bit more advance, which results in more power. So you wont be getting the benefit of much more power than pump gas, and as 93MSB spelled it out very well it is not economical to run e-85 unless you actually need something more than premium for your car, or you just plain really really want to run e-85 despite the higher cost. I've heard it all so I wouldn't want to talk anyone out of it, just know whats up before you dive in.
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05-23-12, 01:56 PM
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you can run e85 on the stock timing, but you are loosing the benefits of e85 as well then because with e85 you can dial in quite a bit more advance, which results in more power. So you wont be getting the benefit of much more power than pump gas, and as 93MSB spelled it out very well it is not economical to run e-85 unless you actually need something more than premium for your car, or you just plain really really want to run e-85 despite the higher cost. I've heard it all so I wouldn't want to talk anyone out of it, just know whats up before you dive in.
05-23-12, 04:34 PM
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Gas mileage on E85 Sucks my friend, i drive my car everyday and i spend $20 a day just to go to work and back just to keep it above half tank..
I get 27MPG on 93 octane with E85 not so great maybe 200-250 for the full tank.
These guys^^^^ above me said it all, and they know what they are talking about!
I get 27MPG on 93 octane with E85 not so great maybe 200-250 for the full tank.
These guys^^^^ above me said it all, and they know what they are talking about!
05-23-12, 10:29 PM
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Wow thanks for the replies.
1. You are right, i only need to chage the rubber parts.
I don´t know why i´m thinking i need to change the whole thing...
2. Yeah but -> I already got the 440 here on my desk.
And here in germany it´s not easy to find US-2JZ injectors.
I can take a bath in JDM injectors cause they cost about $80 here but you wont get the US ones.
Yeah but i have read that some people are running to rich and they trimming the fuel with something like a SAFC or anything else.
And i thought that when i´m running larger injectors that it will be fine maybe.
The closed loop will be okay and i will need to trim the fuel in open loop maybe.
(i don´t think so because the 440cc´s are not that big for my goals)
I don´t want to run more power etc.
Only want to use E85 because of the costs:
Here in germany we have:
-Super E10 (95 octane with maximum 10% E85 inside, in reality it´s about ~3-6%) = $6.68 per gallon
-Super Plus (98 octane) = $7.96 per gallon
-V-Power 100 octane = $12.57
-E85 = $4.99 per gallon
The Soarer got a 21.13 gallon tank, so when i fill it up it will costs:
-Super E10 = $129.12
-Super Plus = $133.60
-V-Power 100 octane = $185.60
-E85 = $84
As i need about ~30% more fuel:
I´m running my car with 19.6 MPG + the 30% = 19.6 - 5.88 = 13.72 MPG
21.13 gallon tank * 13.72 MPG = 289.9 miles
And that´s why i think running E85 is good.
I don´t want to do it because of more advanced timing and more power, it´s only about costs.
I know but the prices for E85 are so low here compared to 100 octane i´m running atm.
Aah i´m not sure....
1. You should be able to get away with the stock fuel lines as long as you replace the rubber pieces by the tank and fuel rails. They are quite beefy (comparable to a -6AN) and should easily survive anything a 440cc injector would flow.
2. Have you considered going to 550cc injectors? Stock ECU + SAFC handles them pretty well. It will give you more headroom for the E85 and let you turn up the boost.
2. Have you considered going to 550cc injectors? Stock ECU + SAFC handles them pretty well. It will give you more headroom for the E85 and let you turn up the boost.
I don´t know why i´m thinking i need to change the whole thing...
2. Yeah but -> I already got the 440 here on my desk.
And here in germany it´s not easy to find US-2JZ injectors.
I can take a bath in JDM injectors cause they cost about $80 here but you wont get the US ones.
Your plan of E-85 and stock ECU is a recipe for disaster as E requires 30% more volume and will play havoc on the fuel side of the factory ECU not to mention 440CC injectors would only get you to maybe 300 -320 and thats with a reasonable timing curve considering E , which is outside of the factory ECU parameters of timing.
On a 1jz you can control around a 680cc injector with a Aftermarket piggyback FC IE: Super AFC. AEM FIC etc.etc.
As most piggyback FC typically only control up or down 50%of stock fuel ECU settings.
On a 1jz you can control around a 680cc injector with a Aftermarket piggyback FC IE: Super AFC. AEM FIC etc.etc.
As most piggyback FC typically only control up or down 50%of stock fuel ECU settings.
And i thought that when i´m running larger injectors that it will be fine maybe.
The closed loop will be okay and i will need to trim the fuel in open loop maybe.
(i don´t think so because the 440cc´s are not that big for my goals)
Only want to use E85 because of the costs:
Here in germany we have:
-Super E10 (95 octane with maximum 10% E85 inside, in reality it´s about ~3-6%) = $6.68 per gallon
-Super Plus (98 octane) = $7.96 per gallon
-V-Power 100 octane = $12.57
-E85 = $4.99 per gallon
The Soarer got a 21.13 gallon tank, so when i fill it up it will costs:
-Super E10 = $129.12
-Super Plus = $133.60
-V-Power 100 octane = $185.60
-E85 = $84
As i need about ~30% more fuel:
I´m running my car with 19.6 MPG + the 30% = 19.6 - 5.88 = 13.72 MPG
21.13 gallon tank * 13.72 MPG = 289.9 miles
And that´s why i think running E85 is good.
I don´t want to do it because of more advanced timing and more power, it´s only about costs.
Gas mileage on E85 Sucks my friend, i drive my car everyday and i spend $20 a day just to go to work and back just to keep it above half tank..
I get 27MPG on 93 octane with E85 not so great maybe 200-250 for the full tank.
These guys^^^^ above me said it all, and they know what they are talking about!
I get 27MPG on 93 octane with E85 not so great maybe 200-250 for the full tank.
These guys^^^^ above me said it all, and they know what they are talking about!
Aah i´m not sure....
05-25-12, 09:35 AM
#11
+1Million to all the people above dissuading you about E85. They are all right .
Looks like your ultimate goal why you want to use E85 is just to lower cost.
Just wondering why don't you just then run Super E10 which is 95 Octane instead of running the 100 Octane. Looking at your numbers , at the end of the day , you are almost at the same cost with E85 and you wont have to go through all the hassle you mentioned converting to E85.
We in the US are all using 93 Octane and are all good... yours at 95 is even better...
just a thought to consider ...
to all the people above dissuading you about E85. They are all right .Looks like your ultimate goal why you want to use E85 is just to lower cost.
Just wondering why don't you just then run Super E10 which is 95 Octane instead of running the 100 Octane. Looking at your numbers , at the end of the day , you are almost at the same cost with E85 and you wont have to go through all the hassle you mentioned converting to E85.
We in the US are all using 93 Octane and are all good... yours at 95 is even better...
just a thought to consider ...
Last edited by gerrb; 05-25-12 at 09:39 AM.
05-25-12, 11:46 AM
#12
+1Million to all the people above dissuading you about E85. They are all right .
Looks like your ultimate goal why you want to use E85 is just to lower cost.
Just wondering why don't you just then run Super E10 which is 95 Octane instead of running the 100 Octane. Looking at your numbers , at the end of the day , you are almost at the same cost with E85 and you wont have to go through all the hassle you mentioned converting to E85.
We in the US are all using 93 Octane and are all good... yours at 95 is even better...
just a thought to consider ...
to all the people above dissuading you about E85. They are all right .Looks like your ultimate goal why you want to use E85 is just to lower cost.
Just wondering why don't you just then run Super E10 which is 95 Octane instead of running the 100 Octane. Looking at your numbers , at the end of the day , you are almost at the same cost with E85 and you wont have to go through all the hassle you mentioned converting to E85.
We in the US are all using 93 Octane and are all good... yours at 95 is even better...
just a thought to consider ...
03-09-13, 12:35 PM
#14
Sorry to bring this post back from the dead, but no sense in making another thread about it.
Has anyone run 550s on E85 with the stock 1JZ/twins? If so what horsepower/boost do the injectors max out at? I'm shooting for 400RWHP at under 18psi. I have timing and fuel control so that's not a problem. I will up the boost until the injectors are at their max safe limit. I figure I can add meth injections for another $100 if I run out of injectors.
I'm doing this for the octane, spool and power; not to be economical. Also because it's a cheap upgrade of only $170 for the injectors and resistor box I just purchased.
Anyways, I'm doing this and will post back my results if no one else has done it.
Has anyone run 550s on E85 with the stock 1JZ/twins? If so what horsepower/boost do the injectors max out at? I'm shooting for 400RWHP at under 18psi. I have timing and fuel control so that's not a problem. I will up the boost until the injectors are at their max safe limit. I figure I can add meth injections for another $100 if I run out of injectors.
I'm doing this for the octane, spool and power; not to be economical. Also because it's a cheap upgrade of only $170 for the injectors and resistor box I just purchased.
Anyways, I'm doing this and will post back my results if no one else has done it.
03-09-13, 01:21 PM
#15
probably 400 max on e85 with 550cc. 30% more fuel minus 550cc yield about a 400cc injector usually 1hp per cc roughly. I haven't heard anyone running stock injector on e85 but I guess you could. I have BNIB 550cc maybe i can try that with my AEM so i don't have to swap headgaskets. But then again why pay for a tune twice. A standalone tune isn't cheap. If you do it twice you could have gotten some nice injectors for that price.