1992 SC is Flooding 2 Cylinders, Injectors test OK
10-30-19, 05:11 PM
#1
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Thread Starter
1992 SC is Flooding 2 Cylinders, Injectors test OK
My old SC has been stranded in my driveway for a couple of weeks because I can't get it to start. I found that the two cylinders closest to the front of the car (cam gear end) are getting flooded and I'm not sure why. So much, in fact, that the engine will hydro-lock and cease to crank without removing the plugs. I wish I had not gone through the trouble of throwing in a new starter before finding that out but that's history... Of course, then I realized my header was leaking gas too and it's in my oil... so I had to dry it all up.
I tested all of the injectors and they all sound fine; there are no leaks I can see or feel on the outside. I'm pretty stumped now and although the cylinders are all siphoned out and dry--I know it's just going to fill up again. I had put in a AEM fuel pump and bypassed the computer in the past... but never had an issue up until now. The last time I drove the car was October 5th or 6th and I want to change the oil but I don't want it to get contaminated with gas again.
Any ideas on what to try next? The motor is the 2JZ-GE, stock with no turbo added. Greatly appreciate any info.
Thanks
I tested all of the injectors and they all sound fine; there are no leaks I can see or feel on the outside. I'm pretty stumped now and although the cylinders are all siphoned out and dry--I know it's just going to fill up again. I had put in a AEM fuel pump and bypassed the computer in the past... but never had an issue up until now. The last time I drove the car was October 5th or 6th and I want to change the oil but I don't want it to get contaminated with gas again.
Any ideas on what to try next? The motor is the 2JZ-GE, stock with no turbo added. Greatly appreciate any info.
Thanks
10-30-19, 08:55 PM
#3
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Thread Starter
Thanks for the input!
I didn't bench test them per say, however I did turn the key ON to pressurize the system, with the spark plugs removed, to see if there was any gas getting into the cylinders. They seemed to stay dry however and remotely pulsing the injectors with a tester didn't yield any unusual results.
I may just need to take the manifold apart, remove the fuel rail and have a closer look. First time running into this issue however so perhaps there is some less obvious cause. ECU is an original unit, as is the fuel pump CU. I do have another set that I can test, along with another rail so worst case scenario I gotta do a bit of work on it this weekend.
Side note... what is the valve located at the return end of the rail? It has no electrical connection but does have a vac line back to the intake manifold?
I didn't bench test them per say, however I did turn the key ON to pressurize the system, with the spark plugs removed, to see if there was any gas getting into the cylinders. They seemed to stay dry however and remotely pulsing the injectors with a tester didn't yield any unusual results.
I may just need to take the manifold apart, remove the fuel rail and have a closer look. First time running into this issue however so perhaps there is some less obvious cause. ECU is an original unit, as is the fuel pump CU. I do have another set that I can test, along with another rail so worst case scenario I gotta do a bit of work on it this weekend.
Side note... what is the valve located at the return end of the rail? It has no electrical connection but does have a vac line back to the intake manifold?
10-31-19, 04:30 AM
#5
I'll post here instead, maybe someone with more knowledge/experience can chime in. I'm still trouble shooting a similar problem;
It's a good chance its your main ECU if the injectors are ok during bench testing. Your main ECU also has fuel items within, not just your fuel pump ecu which located behind your drivers seat. If those caps start leaking (from what I've researched) your injectors can stay open. If you have the 12 volt fuel pump ecu mod then you'll always be delivering fuel with key turned on (flooding).
I've sent my ECU to Tanin Auto Electronic for a rebuild. Per report I got my ECU had a lot of issues including corrosion and cap leaks and some other stuff. Downtime was about 2-3 weeks. I've installed the rebuilt ECU, will be putting fresh oil and fuel this weekend and continue trouble shooting. My car is a 92 with less than 90k miles, clean, garage kept, etc. so its probably due to age. Also from what I've researched 90s toyota/lexus are notorious for have ecu problems.
Also drain your oil and make sure its not diluted with fuel ASAP. Thats one quick way to spin a rod bearing and have a good reason to GTE swap
It's a good chance its your main ECU if the injectors are ok during bench testing. Your main ECU also has fuel items within, not just your fuel pump ecu which located behind your drivers seat. If those caps start leaking (from what I've researched) your injectors can stay open. If you have the 12 volt fuel pump ecu mod then you'll always be delivering fuel with key turned on (flooding).
I've sent my ECU to Tanin Auto Electronic for a rebuild. Per report I got my ECU had a lot of issues including corrosion and cap leaks and some other stuff. Downtime was about 2-3 weeks. I've installed the rebuilt ECU, will be putting fresh oil and fuel this weekend and continue trouble shooting. My car is a 92 with less than 90k miles, clean, garage kept, etc. so its probably due to age. Also from what I've researched 90s toyota/lexus are notorious for have ecu problems.
Also drain your oil and make sure its not diluted with fuel ASAP. Thats one quick way to spin a rod bearing and have a good reason to GTE swap
10-31-19, 07:04 AM
#6
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Thread Starter
I had bypassed the fuel pump ECU in the past since my motor was cutting out abruptly after a minute or two idling. Not sure what kind of shape the main ECU is in though--however that may be worth looking into since this problem seemed to come out of nowhere. I had never had any major issues starting this motor, which only has about 80k miles on it.
Also drain your oil and make sure its not diluted with fuel ASAP. Thats one quick way to spin a rod bearing and have a good reason to GTE swap
Will be dropping the oil and filter tonight. I have a friend who might be interested in buying the car for a swap so I'll mention the possibility of having the ECU rebuilt.
Thanks
10-31-19, 10:19 AM
#7
It is probably the rotor/cap on the distributor. when it goes it will start to drop certain cylinders where the contacts are too worn out, and those will fill with fuel.
Had that happen on a couple SC's.. been there done that
skip the autozone ones they suck and try and get the cap and rotor from toyota. that should fix it right up!
All you need is a Philips screwdriver for the rotor and for the cap you can use a Phillips or a 8mm (maybe 10mm?) socket if the bolts are stripped if I remember right.
I bet that thing purrs with only 80k on it and is due for a rotor cap replacement. I would also do plugs, and skip the factory platinum ones and go with iridiums, its worth it and are much better plugs.
something like a NGK BKR5EIX would do nicely, they can look it up at the parts store just tell then NGK and iridium.
And the valve on the end of the fuel rail is a fuel pressure regulator, it should have a short vacuum line going to the intake and this is normal and necessary for it to operate correctly.
*edit* You could still have an ecu issue, but alot of people forget about the distributor and it sounds like what you are saying.
Had that happen on a couple SC's.. been there done that
skip the autozone ones they suck and try and get the cap and rotor from toyota. that should fix it right up!
All you need is a Philips screwdriver for the rotor and for the cap you can use a Phillips or a 8mm (maybe 10mm?) socket if the bolts are stripped if I remember right.
I bet that thing purrs with only 80k on it and is due for a rotor cap replacement. I would also do plugs, and skip the factory platinum ones and go with iridiums, its worth it and are much better plugs.
something like a NGK BKR5EIX would do nicely, they can look it up at the parts store just tell then NGK and iridium.
And the valve on the end of the fuel rail is a fuel pressure regulator, it should have a short vacuum line going to the intake and this is normal and necessary for it to operate correctly.
*edit* You could still have an ecu issue, but alot of people forget about the distributor and it sounds like what you are saying.
Last edited by Ali SC3; 10-31-19 at 10:54 AM.
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mak89 (10-31-19)
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10-31-19, 10:22 AM
#8
I never had a start problem prior to flooding issue. I had started total of 3 times for less than a 1 min, rough idle, smoke, then I decided to search here and found its a common issue, ECU. I opened up ECU before I sent in but only saw on board which appeared to look clean, but still send in anyways.
10-31-19, 10:25 AM
#9
It is probably the rotor/cap on the distributor. when it goes it will start to drop certain cylinders where the contacts are too worn out, and those will fill with fuel.
Had that happen on a couple SC's.. been there done that
skip the autozone ones they suck and try and get the cap and rotor from toyota. that should fix it right up!
All you need is a Philips screwdriver for the rotor and for the cap you can use a Phillips or a 8mm (maybe 10mm?) socket if the bolts are stripped if I remember right.
Had that happen on a couple SC's.. been there done that
skip the autozone ones they suck and try and get the cap and rotor from toyota. that should fix it right up!
All you need is a Philips screwdriver for the rotor and for the cap you can use a Phillips or a 8mm (maybe 10mm?) socket if the bolts are stripped if I remember right.
I had replaced my distributor cap, rotor, o-ring with OEM. Ran it 30-50 miles before this problem occurred. Started right up, idle normal, don't its related to this recent distributer cap service. Maybe I'll pull and also check. Much appreciate the feedback Ali!
10-31-19, 10:49 AM
#10
I was more stating for the OP EXCellR8, you haven't posted all the details or symptoms you are having although it does sound similar.
Normally the ecu will cut fueling if it detects a misfire or non ignition event so the cylinder wont flood, but in these cases the spark does happen just doesn't jump to the right place so the ecu keeps going and it fills with fuel.
If you had the cap and rotor replaced with toyota parts and that all looks good, then look at the ignition wires. sometimes the oem ones with age will ground out to the cylinder head and the same thing will happen.
If you try and start it at night you might even see slight arcing. This is also assuming you are not on the original platimum plugs which would be overdue for a change at 80k+ and have new good plugs in there.
The fuel ecu and 12v mod stuff is usually for a no fuel or underfueling situation.
Bad ecu caps can result in overfueling, but that is usually while it is still able to run somewhat and wont generally fill up with fuel to lock stuff up.
I have had a new cap and rotor from autozone go out on me about 3k miles after replacement, so yeah I would pop off the cover and make sure all the screws etc.. are still tight and good to go.
look for burn spots under the cap etc.. as well.
It is odd as some plug wires seem to last forever, and some seem to short out over time, its just one of those random things but my experience in messing with the 2jzge, which I have done alot, is that the OP is dealing with an ignition issue.
You might have a combination of an ecu and ignition issue. sometimes the rebuilt ecu's do not function all that great either, which is why I usually try and find a good working used one as a replacement.
Sounds like both of you have low mileage vehicles that are I am guessing cared for, so if they haven't seen alot of extreme weather the ecu could be fine.
Your info does say florida though, so there is a chance the humidity affected it over the years when it was sitting.
I would check/replace the cap and rotor, plugs and plug wires if they are original or questionable.
It is a service you need to do anyways by 90k if not with mileage then with age since they could be 27 years old by now (for a 1992).
If that doesn't solve it, then I would be more suspect of the ecu at that point.
Normally the ecu will cut fueling if it detects a misfire or non ignition event so the cylinder wont flood, but in these cases the spark does happen just doesn't jump to the right place so the ecu keeps going and it fills with fuel.
If you had the cap and rotor replaced with toyota parts and that all looks good, then look at the ignition wires. sometimes the oem ones with age will ground out to the cylinder head and the same thing will happen.
If you try and start it at night you might even see slight arcing. This is also assuming you are not on the original platimum plugs which would be overdue for a change at 80k+ and have new good plugs in there.
The fuel ecu and 12v mod stuff is usually for a no fuel or underfueling situation.
Bad ecu caps can result in overfueling, but that is usually while it is still able to run somewhat and wont generally fill up with fuel to lock stuff up.
I have had a new cap and rotor from autozone go out on me about 3k miles after replacement, so yeah I would pop off the cover and make sure all the screws etc.. are still tight and good to go.
look for burn spots under the cap etc.. as well.
It is odd as some plug wires seem to last forever, and some seem to short out over time, its just one of those random things but my experience in messing with the 2jzge, which I have done alot, is that the OP is dealing with an ignition issue.
You might have a combination of an ecu and ignition issue. sometimes the rebuilt ecu's do not function all that great either, which is why I usually try and find a good working used one as a replacement.
Sounds like both of you have low mileage vehicles that are I am guessing cared for, so if they haven't seen alot of extreme weather the ecu could be fine.
Your info does say florida though, so there is a chance the humidity affected it over the years when it was sitting.
I would check/replace the cap and rotor, plugs and plug wires if they are original or questionable.
It is a service you need to do anyways by 90k if not with mileage then with age since they could be 27 years old by now (for a 1992).
If that doesn't solve it, then I would be more suspect of the ecu at that point.
Last edited by Ali SC3; 10-31-19 at 10:57 AM.
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mak89 (10-31-19)
10-31-19, 11:19 AM
#11
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Thread Starter
I will take the dist cap off for a check and have a look at the ECU--if I can open it up without too much of an fuss. First thing I gotta do is get that contaminated oil out of there though. I may try to remove 1 or 2 plugs again and pressurize the rail just to confirm that fuel isn't getting in there. For what it's worth I may just swap the injectors out anyway and if I can get a good look at the caps in the ECU, and they are bad, I will consider finding a replacement.
I also believe that the plugs are NGK iridium that are only a few years old; we're talking less than 2k miles on them, maybe. Gap checked them all myself before installation.
I also believe that the plugs are NGK iridium that are only a few years old; we're talking less than 2k miles on them, maybe. Gap checked them all myself before installation.
10-31-19, 04:25 PM
#12
I would try the the cap and rotor first since they are much easier and probably the issue, if plugs are done then do wires as a tune up item also.
injectors don't fail to the point of flooding the cylinders that often on these cars, usually more on the 7m's and older motors but if anything I would check the injector clips as sometimes they get brittle and have a bad connection causing issues (usually less fuel).
if you turn on the fuel pump via the diagnostic connector without turning the motor over, and more fuel ends up in the chamber overnight, you have a leaky injector(s).
If it's dry after that but locks up during cranking or running, then you have an ignition (cap/rotor/wires/plugs) or overfueling issue while running (ecu has bad caps) generally speaking of course.
Both times my rotor was worn out on different setups, the engine went from running perfect to instantly struggling to stay running and sounding like only 3-4 cylinders were randomly firing, lots of shaking, sounded terrible.
leaky injectors are usually hard to start and take longer to start as the rail has to pressurize, but would clear up and run a few seconds after started.
injectors don't fail to the point of flooding the cylinders that often on these cars, usually more on the 7m's and older motors but if anything I would check the injector clips as sometimes they get brittle and have a bad connection causing issues (usually less fuel).
if you turn on the fuel pump via the diagnostic connector without turning the motor over, and more fuel ends up in the chamber overnight, you have a leaky injector(s).
If it's dry after that but locks up during cranking or running, then you have an ignition (cap/rotor/wires/plugs) or overfueling issue while running (ecu has bad caps) generally speaking of course.
Both times my rotor was worn out on different setups, the engine went from running perfect to instantly struggling to stay running and sounding like only 3-4 cylinders were randomly firing, lots of shaking, sounded terrible.
leaky injectors are usually hard to start and take longer to start as the rail has to pressurize, but would clear up and run a few seconds after started.
Last edited by Ali SC3; 10-31-19 at 04:28 PM.
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mak89 (10-31-19)
10-31-19, 04:33 PM
#13
I forgot to mention, alot of times people will spill oil into the front 2 cylinders spark plug valley when filling oil from the filler cap, this can ground out the plugs to the head and cause flooding also.
I assumed this isn't your problem since you had the plugs out several times I am assuming you cleaned any oil / water from the area.
this thread is a good read, bad rotor (worst I've seen), no start and the motor was almost flooded, smoked like crazy on startup when rotor and cap were replaced from the extra fuel.
I am guessing they did not know how to pull the plugs and turn it over to unlock it like you knew about, and is a good idea to prevent damage when it does start.
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/per...butor-cap.html
And yes do change your oil before you go driving anywhere.
I assumed this isn't your problem since you had the plugs out several times I am assuming you cleaned any oil / water from the area.
this thread is a good read, bad rotor (worst I've seen), no start and the motor was almost flooded, smoked like crazy on startup when rotor and cap were replaced from the extra fuel.
I am guessing they did not know how to pull the plugs and turn it over to unlock it like you knew about, and is a good idea to prevent damage when it does start.
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/per...butor-cap.html
And yes do change your oil before you go driving anywhere.
Last edited by Ali SC3; 10-31-19 at 04:39 PM.
10-31-19, 04:38 PM
#14
Driver School Candidate
Thread Starter
Appreciate all of the input thus far. I will certainly be posting the cause of this issue if/when I find it.
Does swapping in a GTE count as a "fix?"
Does swapping in a GTE count as a "fix?"
10-31-19, 05:04 PM
#15
I would try the the cap and rotor first since they are much easier and probably the issue, if plugs are done then do wires as a tune up item also.
injectors don't fail to the point of flooding the cylinders that often on these cars, usually more on the 7m's and older motors but if anything I would check the injector clips as sometimes they get brittle and have a bad connection causing issues (usually less fuel).
if you turn on the fuel pump via the diagnostic connector without turning the motor over, and more fuel ends up in the chamber overnight, you have a leaky injector(s).
If it's dry after that but locks up during cranking or running, then you have an ignition (cap/rotor/wires/plugs) or overfueling issue while running (ecu has bad caps) generally speaking of course.
Both times my rotor was worn out on different setups, the engine went from running perfect to instantly struggling to stay running and sounding like only 3-4 cylinders were randomly firing, lots of shaking, sounded terrible.
leaky injectors are usually hard to start and take longer to start as the rail has to pressurize, but would clear up and run a few seconds after started.
injectors don't fail to the point of flooding the cylinders that often on these cars, usually more on the 7m's and older motors but if anything I would check the injector clips as sometimes they get brittle and have a bad connection causing issues (usually less fuel).
if you turn on the fuel pump via the diagnostic connector without turning the motor over, and more fuel ends up in the chamber overnight, you have a leaky injector(s).
If it's dry after that but locks up during cranking or running, then you have an ignition (cap/rotor/wires/plugs) or overfueling issue while running (ecu has bad caps) generally speaking of course.
Both times my rotor was worn out on different setups, the engine went from running perfect to instantly struggling to stay running and sounding like only 3-4 cylinders were randomly firing, lots of shaking, sounded terrible.
leaky injectors are usually hard to start and take longer to start as the rail has to pressurize, but would clear up and run a few seconds after started.
Good stuff, really appreciate you sharing your knowledge and experience. Thanks