Distributor Delete Pics w/ 7m-gte CPS / vvti Coilpacks
07-18-14, 09:20 AM
#241
In regards to your posting about rising and falling. I'd hardly consider myself an expert, but I do understand the basics. Back when I was first installing MS into the car, here's video of the O'Scope readings I took of the VR sensors showing the zero crossing. This is when I was still working out bugs, but interesting to see none-the-less. The goal is to have the signal triggered off the sharp zero crossing in the middle of the sine-wave. The thing is on MS it talks about how it inverts the signal inside of MS, gets real confusing real quick. Jordan is pretty much the boss when it comes to 2JZ's and MS, so I just end up using what he says to.
Single G2 Cam signal, followed by 24 crank signals
Raw cam signal and the MS processed square wave (triggered upon zero crossing)
Crank signal
Playing with signal filtering
Some other screen shots from my disco scope
Single G2 Cam signal, followed by 24 crank signals
Raw cam signal and the MS processed square wave (triggered upon zero crossing)
Crank signal
Playing with signal filtering
Some other screen shots from my disco scope
07-18-14, 10:28 AM
#242
well it should be falling edge, but if the MS is processing it and reversing the polarity then yes the edges would be reversed and it would be rising edge off of the processed signal. thats odd that it asks what edge to use on the processed signal vs the original.
I would spot check the timing at idle by comparing the laptop value to the crank value with a timing light.. this timing is usually spot on since you probably set the timing once already.
Then spot check it at 1800-2000 rpm's either crack the throttle or open up the IACV stepper in the software wait till the timing is stable and compare the laptop again to the crank. the more rpm's you can spot check the better. then you will know if your timing is drifting and by how much. The signal can look great but if you are not triggering right it will be off as the rpm's increase. if they are close then you are good to go.
with cam driven distributors also there will be a little fluctuation, but not so much as to not be able to get the timing within a few degrees.
I would spot check the timing at idle by comparing the laptop value to the crank value with a timing light.. this timing is usually spot on since you probably set the timing once already.
Then spot check it at 1800-2000 rpm's either crack the throttle or open up the IACV stepper in the software wait till the timing is stable and compare the laptop again to the crank. the more rpm's you can spot check the better. then you will know if your timing is drifting and by how much. The signal can look great but if you are not triggering right it will be off as the rpm's increase. if they are close then you are good to go.
with cam driven distributors also there will be a little fluctuation, but not so much as to not be able to get the timing within a few degrees.
07-18-14, 08:44 PM
#244
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Ali,
Before doing all of this i had to remove the distributor to take out my exhaust manifold. I installed the distributor back in with the notch marks lined up in the base and the gear. I noticed that the gear turns as i insert it in the head, helical gear i believe. Well when i set my timingg fixed at 10, the timing light indicates 10 on the timing cover. Is that all that should matter? Or does it matter if maybe the notches didnt line up quite the same but the timing still reads the aame mechanically and in the AEM?
I found a small boost leak as well but not sure if that would cause sputtering probs.
Before doing all of this i had to remove the distributor to take out my exhaust manifold. I installed the distributor back in with the notch marks lined up in the base and the gear. I noticed that the gear turns as i insert it in the head, helical gear i believe. Well when i set my timingg fixed at 10, the timing light indicates 10 on the timing cover. Is that all that should matter? Or does it matter if maybe the notches didnt line up quite the same but the timing still reads the aame mechanically and in the AEM?
I found a small boost leak as well but not sure if that would cause sputtering probs.
07-29-14, 09:25 AM
#246
Ali,
Before doing all of this i had to remove the distributor to take out my exhaust manifold. I installed the distributor back in with the notch marks lined up in the base and the gear. I noticed that the gear turns as i insert it in the head, helical gear i believe. Well when i set my timingg fixed at 10, the timing light indicates 10 on the timing cover. Is that all that should matter? Or does it matter if maybe the notches didnt line up quite the same but the timing still reads the aame mechanically and in the AEM?
I found a small boost leak as well but not sure if that would cause sputtering probs.
Before doing all of this i had to remove the distributor to take out my exhaust manifold. I installed the distributor back in with the notch marks lined up in the base and the gear. I noticed that the gear turns as i insert it in the head, helical gear i believe. Well when i set my timingg fixed at 10, the timing light indicates 10 on the timing cover. Is that all that should matter? Or does it matter if maybe the notches didnt line up quite the same but the timing still reads the aame mechanically and in the AEM?
I found a small boost leak as well but not sure if that would cause sputtering probs.
boost leaks no matter how small can create boosting and sputtering problems. I usually know when I spring a leak of some sort my bov sounds different or doesn't open much at all, then I know to go out and look around.
07-30-14, 01:06 PM
#249
I totally forgot to answer that question, The stock ignitor does not have a ground wire, but the multi-channel ignitors needs one.
I have the ground running to the ignitor bracket, just scratched off some paint under it. I used to have it go to the battery negative, but I didn't like how the wire looked like that.
I just took one of the spare pin/wires and put a crimp loop connector on the end on it, soldered it for extra insurance, wedged it under the bracket and then with the bolt going through the bracket and loop tightened the bracket down on top of it.
I would probably ground the the ignitor to the chassis vs the intake manifold but I suspect it will work both ways. the chassis will have a better ground path back to the battery as it has the whole chassis vs the intake has to go through the cable to chassis or through another cable to the battery ground. I think this is why some ignitors are grounded through the bracket on some models if anyone cares about the details.. lol.
On a similar note, never remove the grey 2 wire noise filter thats near the stock coil on the passenger side, the car will not run or run badly if you do. it has a power wire and a ground and it filters out noise on the ignition circuit. I have peeled mine back to the stock ignitor location now since I got rid of most wiring on the passeneger side, or you can leave it there I had it there by itself for a long time. you can also peel back the power wire and trigger wire for the stock coil and use that for 1 of the 3 trigger signals and power wires, and for the other 2 coils run new trigger signals and splice into that 12V. the coil power wire and the noise filter power wire are spliced together though so that kind of limits things unless you extend those wires. lots of ways to do it but if you don;t want to unwrap your harness running 4 new wires is much easier and has a more stock like appearance if you wrap it nicely.
I have the ground running to the ignitor bracket, just scratched off some paint under it. I used to have it go to the battery negative, but I didn't like how the wire looked like that.
I just took one of the spare pin/wires and put a crimp loop connector on the end on it, soldered it for extra insurance, wedged it under the bracket and then with the bolt going through the bracket and loop tightened the bracket down on top of it.
I would probably ground the the ignitor to the chassis vs the intake manifold but I suspect it will work both ways. the chassis will have a better ground path back to the battery as it has the whole chassis vs the intake has to go through the cable to chassis or through another cable to the battery ground. I think this is why some ignitors are grounded through the bracket on some models if anyone cares about the details.. lol.
On a similar note, never remove the grey 2 wire noise filter thats near the stock coil on the passenger side, the car will not run or run badly if you do. it has a power wire and a ground and it filters out noise on the ignition circuit. I have peeled mine back to the stock ignitor location now since I got rid of most wiring on the passeneger side, or you can leave it there I had it there by itself for a long time. you can also peel back the power wire and trigger wire for the stock coil and use that for 1 of the 3 trigger signals and power wires, and for the other 2 coils run new trigger signals and splice into that 12V. the coil power wire and the noise filter power wire are spliced together though so that kind of limits things unless you extend those wires. lots of ways to do it but if you don;t want to unwrap your harness running 4 new wires is much easier and has a more stock like appearance if you wrap it nicely.
Last edited by Ali SC3; 07-30-14 at 01:15 PM.
07-30-14, 02:22 PM
#250
I tend to follow this as a rule of thumb for grounding in general, and ground to the motor/head/etc more so than the chassis.
http://www.msextra.com/doc/general/grounding.html
http://www.msextra.com/doc/general/grounding.html
07-30-14, 02:50 PM
#251
That makes sense the sensors should go to the block/head generally speaking but the more sensitive ones go to a special ground on the ecu, well at least toyota does it that way. The ignitor I think is different cause its not a sensor so I would put it to chassis ground. I don't follow many guides I sort of do it myself and I wouldn't be moving it to the block/head lets put it that way. it just has to work not be read accurately or interfere with the things that read accurately.
08-01-14, 11:04 PM
#252
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my problem has been solved by ditching the ignitor and using lq9 coils. car has never ran this fricking good.
Typing this just in case someone in the future has my problem, lq9 coils did what the vvti coils couldnt, fixed my spark blowout issues.
Typing this just in case someone in the future has my problem, lq9 coils did what the vvti coils couldnt, fixed my spark blowout issues.
08-02-14, 05:24 AM
#253
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LQ9 FTW hahaha.
Ali- stock ignitor does have a ground comes the the engine harness to the ignitor, it grounds at the intake manifold iirc.
Those brown wires that bolts to the lower runner .
Ali- stock ignitor does have a ground comes the the engine harness to the ignitor, it grounds at the intake manifold iirc.
Those brown wires that bolts to the lower runner .
09-05-14, 03:12 PM
#254
well it should be falling edge, but if the MS is processing it and reversing the polarity then yes the edges would be reversed and it would be rising edge off of the processed signal. thats odd that it asks what edge to use on the processed signal vs the original.
I would spot check the timing at idle by comparing the laptop value to the crank value with a timing light.. this timing is usually spot on since you probably set the timing once already.
Then spot check it at 1800-2000 rpm's either crack the throttle or open up the IACV stepper in the software wait till the timing is stable and compare the laptop again to the crank. the more rpm's you can spot check the better. then you will know if your timing is drifting and by how much. The signal can look great but if you are not triggering right it will be off as the rpm's increase. if they are close then you are good to go.
with cam driven distributors also there will be a little fluctuation, but not so much as to not be able to get the timing within a few degrees.
I would spot check the timing at idle by comparing the laptop value to the crank value with a timing light.. this timing is usually spot on since you probably set the timing once already.
Then spot check it at 1800-2000 rpm's either crack the throttle or open up the IACV stepper in the software wait till the timing is stable and compare the laptop again to the crank. the more rpm's you can spot check the better. then you will know if your timing is drifting and by how much. The signal can look great but if you are not triggering right it will be off as the rpm's increase. if they are close then you are good to go.
with cam driven distributors also there will be a little fluctuation, but not so much as to not be able to get the timing within a few degrees.
http://www.megamanual.com/ms2/pickups.htm
That first picture showing the conversion to square wave. The sin wave that looks like mine, you can see it says the correct setting is "Rising". So I'm pretty sure I have it correct.
10-11-14, 01:59 PM
#255
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My 1998 Camry have DS62, but third connection 'TAC' is not connected to any wire. It shows 2-3V on start and go upto 5-6V with acceleration.
I am installing remote starter, can I hook remote module tach wire to this idle TAC connector on DS62?
I am installing remote starter, can I hook remote module tach wire to this idle TAC connector on DS62?