Let's just clarify the w58 tranny and shifter issue right here in this thread.
12-08-09, 11:24 PM
#1
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Let's just clarify the w58 tranny and shifter issue right here in this thread.
This is what I know so far, and correct me if I'm wrong: W58 tranny from a mkiii will work on any sc300 as long as you are using the sc300 w58 bellhousing w/ a sc300 stock shifter. The w58 tranny sc300 92-94 looks exactly the same as the mkiii w58 tranny (not sure of all yrs. from mkiii). The sc300 shifter hangs back 2-3 inches so it sits at the right spot on that particular car. The w58 sc300 95+ has a different looking shifter ASSEMBLY than 92-94 sc300, and both w58 tranny looks different. The 95+ sc300 w58 tranny looks exactly the same as the w58 out of the 93+ MKIV Supra Na (not sure about all yrs on the Supra though), and both interchangeable. However, again make sure you use the right shifter. I think most people get confused about the shifter assembly being different on w58 trannies because they are using the wrong shifter. For example, if you use a w58 5spd swap out mkiv supra, using supra's shifter is what causes you to cut the shifter hole larger, or further up front or back (don't remember). But as long as you use the right shifter, you should be fine with any w58 mkiv. on all yr. sc300.
I will try and find some pix of the trannies.
But chime in if you like. Always better with more responses or corrections.
I will try and find some pix of the trannies.
But chime in if you like. Always better with more responses or corrections.
12-09-09, 06:19 PM
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Here's a few pictures:
Below is a w58 tranny off of the mkiv supra. The lexus sc300 95+ also uses the exact same tranny as long as you are using the shifter off of either the mkiv supra or 95+ sc300 shifter (pre 95 sc300 shifter will not work/ will sit 3 inch back). This will work with 92-94 sc300 as well but again need mkiv supra or 95+ shifter due to the already extended tripod or shifter housing, or what ever they call it.
Below is the w58 tranny off of either the mkiii 7m, or sc300 92-94. If you use a mkiii w58 you need the 2jz bell housing and also the sc300 stock shifter specifically from 92-94 sc300 (95+ sc300, mkiii, mkiv shifters will not work on this application/will sit too close to the radio). With all that should work on all years 92-00 sc300.
Hopefully with the above info, this will no longer prevent people from doing the 5spd swap.
Below is a w58 tranny off of the mkiv supra. The lexus sc300 95+ also uses the exact same tranny as long as you are using the shifter off of either the mkiv supra or 95+ sc300 shifter (pre 95 sc300 shifter will not work/ will sit 3 inch back). This will work with 92-94 sc300 as well but again need mkiv supra or 95+ shifter due to the already extended tripod or shifter housing, or what ever they call it.
Below is the w58 tranny off of either the mkiii 7m, or sc300 92-94. If you use a mkiii w58 you need the 2jz bell housing and also the sc300 stock shifter specifically from 92-94 sc300 (95+ sc300, mkiii, mkiv shifters will not work on this application/will sit too close to the radio). With all that should work on all years 92-00 sc300.
Hopefully with the above info, this will no longer prevent people from doing the 5spd swap.
12-09-09, 06:32 PM
#3
Man I hope this thread clears up some questions for me...^Thanks scfou for your useful post!
My situtation:
92 SC300
I have:
MK3 tranny (looks just like the one in the bottom pic you posted)
2jz-w58 bellhousing
MK3-w58 front driveshaft
MKIV shifter.
My issue:
I've been searching and searching on how to make the MKIV shifter work on the MK3 tranny. I've read of people making a bracket to hold the MKIV shifters lower "arms" and came across a few vague references to swapping out the shift collars for MKIV units, but after having a parts diagram faxed to my shop from Toyota, the collar appears identical to the MK3 unit and without it being way shorter and perhaps turned around (pic showed the same long collar) the MKIV shifter just wont work (And I had my doubts on it being able to travel far enough forward to engage 2nd 4th and reverse if the collar was different anyway)
Anyway, enough of that^^
What I take from your post is that I can use the MK3 tranny if I simply bolt in a 92-94 shifter lever to it, without swapping the gooseneck housing for anything different, is that right?
(crossing my fingers...lol)
My situtation:
92 SC300
I have:
MK3 tranny (looks just like the one in the bottom pic you posted)
2jz-w58 bellhousing
MK3-w58 front driveshaft
MKIV shifter.
My issue:
I've been searching and searching on how to make the MKIV shifter work on the MK3 tranny. I've read of people making a bracket to hold the MKIV shifters lower "arms" and came across a few vague references to swapping out the shift collars for MKIV units, but after having a parts diagram faxed to my shop from Toyota, the collar appears identical to the MK3 unit and without it being way shorter and perhaps turned around (pic showed the same long collar) the MKIV shifter just wont work (And I had my doubts on it being able to travel far enough forward to engage 2nd 4th and reverse if the collar was different anyway)
Anyway, enough of that^^
What I take from your post is that I can use the MK3 tranny if I simply bolt in a 92-94 shifter lever to it, without swapping the gooseneck housing for anything different, is that right?
(crossing my fingers...lol)
12-09-09, 07:21 PM
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Honestly, I'm not sure about the drive shafts mating with the mkiii w58. But based on your parts you are gathering the right parts and yes, except the mkiv shifter. I don't believe that will work. Your shifter will sit close to the radio. You need the goose neck design sc300 stock shifter from 92-94 models. To use the shifter you have you would need the 95+sc300 or supra mkiv w58 with the extended tripod. I'll take a picture of my w58with the 92-94 goose neck shifter.
Last edited by scfou; 12-09-09 at 07:24 PM.
12-09-09, 09:52 PM
#7
Hmmm.....at first glance it looked the same as my MK3, but now i'm thinking my shifter position may be a hair closer to the bellhousing...
I think mine may be the 3rd from the left...It's at my shop so I'll have to look closely tommorow.
I think mine may be the 3rd from the left...It's at my shop so I'll have to look closely tommorow.
Last edited by Gspec; 12-09-09 at 09:56 PM.
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03-02-10, 07:30 AM
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So what short throw shifter will work with a 92-94 sc300 with a stock w58 from 92-94 sc300? I do not care if i have to get adapters, just do not want to cut the center console.
03-02-10, 07:46 AM
#10
Driveshafts.
Regardless if you are using a MK3/MK4/SC400 W58 in the SC, you can use the SC300 MT driveshaft OR a MK3 W58 Front Shaft with a SC300 Rear shaft.
You CANNOT use a MK4 driveshaft. It is shorter and the front shaft does not slide off.
Regardless if you are using a MK3/MK4/SC400 W58 in the SC, you can use the SC300 MT driveshaft OR a MK3 W58 Front Shaft with a SC300 Rear shaft.
You CANNOT use a MK4 driveshaft. It is shorter and the front shaft does not slide off.
Last edited by RedPhoenix; 07-03-10 at 12:50 PM.
03-02-10, 03:51 PM
#11
Cut and pasted from a PM from myself to another member. All the stuff I learned with my 1UZ-W58 project.
And some more info I found out later on:
I got the MKIII transmission thinking that it would fit fine with the stock shifter. Then, when I realized that it would be way too short, I started doing some research.
The MKIV (or 1995+ SC300) had the external extended shifter. This part would make the shift location a few inches further back, and would fit perfectly in my shift console.
So I tried to find this damn external shift assebmly for just over a month. I called about 60 junkyards all over the country, and almost nobody had it. The ones who had it, wouldn't separate it from the transmission. The same went for most people selling W58 swaps on the forums.
So I found a guy over on Supra forums who had them and cut me a killer deal. I actually ended up with 2 all of a sudden. When I went to install it, you'll notice that the shift collar inside of the MKIII tail shaft is much different than the MKIV. So I called the same guy back and bought those pieces from him. You just remove the tail shaft and remove the piston, slide the other one on, and screw it in. Not a big deal.
A few other issues with parts braking later, I've got everything I need to put it all back together.
Now, I was going to make brackets to make the MKIV shifter fit on the MKIII tail shaft. The earlier units didn't have the same bolts to support that MKIV shifter. So I ended up calling the same guy again and he gave me another cheap deal on just buying the whole MKIV tail shaft.
I was going to create a bracket to show CL how to do it, since it hadn't been done yet, but decided I'd sell out and just replace it.
So, with the combination of my SC400 bellhousing, the adaptor plate, and the various MKIII/MKIV W58 parts, I'm done collecting pieces. I also have the SC300 drive shaft, master cylinder, throw out bearing, etc...
The MKIV (or 1995+ SC300) had the external extended shifter. This part would make the shift location a few inches further back, and would fit perfectly in my shift console.
So I tried to find this damn external shift assebmly for just over a month. I called about 60 junkyards all over the country, and almost nobody had it. The ones who had it, wouldn't separate it from the transmission. The same went for most people selling W58 swaps on the forums.
So I found a guy over on Supra forums who had them and cut me a killer deal. I actually ended up with 2 all of a sudden. When I went to install it, you'll notice that the shift collar inside of the MKIII tail shaft is much different than the MKIV. So I called the same guy back and bought those pieces from him. You just remove the tail shaft and remove the piston, slide the other one on, and screw it in. Not a big deal.
A few other issues with parts braking later, I've got everything I need to put it all back together.
Now, I was going to make brackets to make the MKIV shifter fit on the MKIII tail shaft. The earlier units didn't have the same bolts to support that MKIV shifter. So I ended up calling the same guy again and he gave me another cheap deal on just buying the whole MKIV tail shaft.
I was going to create a bracket to show CL how to do it, since it hadn't been done yet, but decided I'd sell out and just replace it.
So, with the combination of my SC400 bellhousing, the adaptor plate, and the various MKIII/MKIV W58 parts, I'm done collecting pieces. I also have the SC300 drive shaft, master cylinder, throw out bearing, etc...
I just walked in from my garage. Unfortunately, I can say this:
The MKIII and MKIV tail shafts are NOT interchangeable. At least, not without some physical modifications to the MKIV tail shaft. I got the MKIV piece to sit all the way down to the actual transmission mid-section, until about the last inch and a half, where it got stuck on something and wouldn't budge. Some buddies and I compared the two side by side and noticed a few very small, but apparently very different characteristics. I will post pictures to illustrate:
The MKIII is on the left, MKIV on the right. In the following pictures, the MKIII can be more easily distinguished by noticing that it the darker color grey.
Starting at the top, middle of the tail shaft housing, you'll notice that the ring that the "shift piston" (as I've been calling it) runs through sticks out (into the housing) on the MKIII, and is flush on MKIV. Probably not a big deal, but it's different. Next, the sprung pieces counterclockwise and slightly lower on both housings: they are different sizes. This could possibly be what kept my MKIV housing from sitting flush; its high enough to the drive shaft side of the housing that it would be allowed to slide down to the midsection juuust enough before stopping it.
A more detailed look at both:
MKIII
MKIV
One other thing I wasn't sure of:
The "shifter piston" slides into the channel that depresses a sprung nipple piece, correct? Looks like this:
Lastly, the tail of the housing:
Notice that the collar that the "shift piston" slides into in the MKIV (pictured on the right) allows about 1/2" more room between its edge and the rear lip of the housing. I can get my finger in the gap of the MKIV, but not of the MKIII.
So, now I'm scratching my head, thinking I'm "fuct". After a while of deliberation, we concluded that the MKIV tail shaft will not fit on the MKIII midsection (please chime in if you know differently). With this assumption in mind, I was left to replace the MKIII unit back on to the transmission. The issue I had then was that the MKIV external shifter would not sit into the collar that is bolted to the "shift piston". The male end of the shifter is too tall, and doesn't allow the cover to sit flush on the housing.
Hope this helps anyone trying to do some researching. Hope someone else can help me with my research and issues.
The MKIII and MKIV tail shafts are NOT interchangeable. At least, not without some physical modifications to the MKIV tail shaft. I got the MKIV piece to sit all the way down to the actual transmission mid-section, until about the last inch and a half, where it got stuck on something and wouldn't budge. Some buddies and I compared the two side by side and noticed a few very small, but apparently very different characteristics. I will post pictures to illustrate:
The MKIII is on the left, MKIV on the right. In the following pictures, the MKIII can be more easily distinguished by noticing that it the darker color grey.
Starting at the top, middle of the tail shaft housing, you'll notice that the ring that the "shift piston" (as I've been calling it) runs through sticks out (into the housing) on the MKIII, and is flush on MKIV. Probably not a big deal, but it's different. Next, the sprung pieces counterclockwise and slightly lower on both housings: they are different sizes. This could possibly be what kept my MKIV housing from sitting flush; its high enough to the drive shaft side of the housing that it would be allowed to slide down to the midsection juuust enough before stopping it.
A more detailed look at both:
MKIII
MKIV
One other thing I wasn't sure of:
The "shifter piston" slides into the channel that depresses a sprung nipple piece, correct? Looks like this:
Lastly, the tail of the housing:
Notice that the collar that the "shift piston" slides into in the MKIV (pictured on the right) allows about 1/2" more room between its edge and the rear lip of the housing. I can get my finger in the gap of the MKIV, but not of the MKIII.
So, now I'm scratching my head, thinking I'm "fuct". After a while of deliberation, we concluded that the MKIV tail shaft will not fit on the MKIII midsection (please chime in if you know differently). With this assumption in mind, I was left to replace the MKIII unit back on to the transmission. The issue I had then was that the MKIV external shifter would not sit into the collar that is bolted to the "shift piston". The male end of the shifter is too tall, and doesn't allow the cover to sit flush on the housing.
Hope this helps anyone trying to do some researching. Hope someone else can help me with my research and issues.
Last edited by MongooseGA; 03-02-10 at 03:55 PM.
07-02-10, 08:11 AM
#13
Here's a few pictures:
Below is a w58 tranny off of the mkiv supra. The lexus sc300 95+ also uses the exact same tranny as long as you are using the shifter off of either the mkiv supra or 95+ sc300 shifter (pre 95 sc300 shifter will not work/ will sit 3 inch back). This will work with 92-94 sc300 as well but again need mkiv supra or 95+ shifter due to the already extended tripod or shifter housing, or what ever they call it.
Below is a w58 tranny off of the mkiv supra. The lexus sc300 95+ also uses the exact same tranny as long as you are using the shifter off of either the mkiv supra or 95+ sc300 shifter (pre 95 sc300 shifter will not work/ will sit 3 inch back). This will work with 92-94 sc300 as well but again need mkiv supra or 95+ shifter due to the already extended tripod or shifter housing, or what ever they call it.
my trans looks exactly like the one pictured, but my shifter is straight up.
the picture you posted above has the shifter (which appears to be the 92-94 style) going back towards the front... i'm wondering if this is what i need
