shaodome

iTrader: (3)

I am not new to tuning engines by any means, but how the hell are so many 2JZ guys getting buy running 18+psi on T67 turbos using just an SAFC? Really? I've seen a few cars now (IN PERSON) that are just using an SAFC, one was a 1J (so that for sure is MAP) and the other was a 2J in an SC.

I'm in the process of going single and the last major hurdles I have to jump are fuel injectors (trying to decide if I want to use USDM 550s or just go top feed with 680s) and a tuning solution. I've read about the lean spot with the ODB1 ECUs, but I don't see it according to my dyno plot. All the car currently has is a Greddy BCC and it overboosts to about 19psi due to the JDM Turbos and open exhaust.

My concern is how conservative the timing is up there on the stock ECU. Over 18psi on pump gas with a turbo flowing a lot more air than stock without timing control just seems like a recipe for detonation. Are these guys just riding on the stock knock sensors? That definitely isn't safe to me.

The current goal is roughly 500whp on pump which seems pretty common. The turbo is a billet PT6265. From what I understand so far, going full standalone isn't really REQUIRED to get this point.

The options I've looked at so far are:

1. SAFC
2. Emanage Ultimate
3. AEM
4. ViPEC

Right now I'm leaning towards the Emanage Ult. but I don't like to WASTE money either. I'd like to hear some of your experiences with the JDM ECU and tuning.

tampa mike

iTrader: (2)

I would not recommend the emanage to anyone, I have never had much GOOD experience with it.

i own a shop and a dyno and tune plenty of cars, by far the most affrodbale would be the AEM, but then again its a full standalone, and the issues that always come with them. but I have tuned plenty of 2JZ cars, and for the most part they have been MAF cars which all in all the SAFC type devices were designed for, they work okay on MAP cars but were honestly meant for a MAF car. Now SAFCs have always been a known disaster for MAP car with distributors because of the timing advance when pulling fuel out so if you had for instance a turbo honda you would not have any true idea of the timing advance.

MANY guys have pushed thier 2JZs to the level of 18-19-20 and more on stock twins, but to obtain 500hp I dont think you would really need much more than that from a 67mm turbo, i would think you could hit it under 20psi or close to it. timing maps are very conservative on these cars, its almost like they knew what we were gonna do with them as soon as we got them.



On a side note, how did you wire your BCC on a JDM motor? I havent had time to do mine but when looking at the instructions, it doesnt make sense for our cars

lexforlife

iTrader: (7)

jordan

i am on aem tuned by alpha, you see first hand how my car runs and starts. cold starts like stock , restarts like stock but drives better then stock

Hp levels once above 400ish to me has little to do with needing a standalone in other words i would rather have total control of timing and fuel without interference of another ecu (oem) trying to fight a setting


with the aem set it tune it and forget it ..safc can work by it relies soley on knock sensors which i dont like... at least my tuner setup my knock threshold map so if octance not up to par or overboost it shuts down according to our parameters before throwing a rod throw the block

my tuner also programmed boost cut .. i am tuned up to 23.8 on pump gas so 23.9 read on my map sensor and car shuts down like it hit a brick wall

if coolant temp rises beyond certain point again shuts down

and with this all i still get better fuel economy then i did with stock ecu

99SC42

iTrader: (44)

WOW that nice how much did the aem run you ?

shaodome

iTrader: (3)

As for the BCC, I'll have to check it as its been a while since I looked at it, but if I recall, it was Power, Ground, and the signal interrupt wires. I REALLY dislike it as since I'm on the JDM ECU, it is a speed/density based system. At least with MAF cars, the ECU will continue to add fuel until the MAF is maxed out since it only used the map sensor to monitor overall boost. On my car, that IS the load sensor


Ed,

I've tuned a lot of cars and in my humble opinion, that is HOW it should be! I've seen a lot of threads with people complaining about AEM with start-up and other various drivability issues. All of those issues are pretty much common amongst ALL stand alone systems worth a damn and that falls squarely on the tuners shoulders. Cold start can take a while to tune as you need to wait for the engine to be bone cold, rinse and repeat till you get it right. Your car looks to run hard from the outside, would love to get a ride in it someday. Did you get the fuel pump issue sorted? I pickup the turbo FINALLY from TDAutowerkes this Sat. Would start the single conversion, but I don't want any unforeseen issues keeping the car from the DnB Meet.

I do like all the features of the AEM and after having comparable standalones on my personal car I am not 100% sold that I need it for my current goals. While having the knock stuff is nice (I think Emanage Ult. has it too as an input) I don't tune that aggressive and perfer to use Det Cans when tuning as opposed to a knock sensor. Most of the time I find them giving false positives and unnecessarily retarding timing. Not quite sure how sensitive Toyota made them on the 2JZ, but I know in Mazda land the stock ECU ignored them after about 4k rpm as valve train noise alone would trigger it

LRD's car seems to run fine as well and he's on the Emanage Ult. From what I've read about it on SF, it was DESIGNED to be used with the JDM ECU and NOT the USDM setup. So that might be why you have had some of the issues Tampa Mike. It is still a piggy back it seems, but for as many people that have had problems, many more seem to like it. I would love to hear some of the issues you witnessed so I can research them a bit. It's much easier to find the problems or potential problems if you know what to look for from the start

Thank you both for the input so far!

wanganstyl

iTrader: (5)

I have a JDM aristo ecu in my sc300, when i get past my break in milage i will start turning up the boost as well. currently i have a neo AFC installed for trimming fuel only at idle and WOT. Greddy SCC for obvious reasons, no other piggyback modules currently-

runs decent, but without real scaling of injectors I feel its a pita to get a very clean map with only an afc. I doubt I could produce a satisfactory result (overall power/drivability and fuel economy)

a friend of mine in houston had his Right Hand Drive JDM MK4 tuned with e-manage ultimate and a GT35R-ish small single. he's making ~ 500-530 rwhP depending on fuel, i don't know how good his fuel economy is or the overall tune- post tune, he told me he would have prefered to go AEM or power FC from the beginning.

if one is trying to tune with stock ecu, the e-manage ultimate seems to be ideal - it is setup to work with the JDM 2jzgte ecu yes, it does delete speed limit and has its own boost controller device.

shaodome; what AFR's are you getting on the stock 2jzgte jdm ecu setup?

Most ideal would be for a manufactuer to figure out how to do a e-prom style (ala mines or toms or somebody else) and provide a product similar to the cobb accessport.

without a product like that avail stateside, it seems like AEM would be the most pnp here.

I was trying to have DIYautotune build me a custom megasquirt to pnp or simply wire into 2jzgte, but the VR range cam sensors are an issue- they wanted me to convert to hall effect cam sensor as the oem vr cam sensors have not really been used sucessfully with megasquirt.

anyone else have any ideas?

$$$$ (1k+)- AEM + other full standalones
$$$ ($500) -emanage ultimate
ideally there would be a $300 - chip e-prom for BPU+ configureable for whatever setup you wanted- bmw guys have things like this, so do nissan.

I once used an e-manage blue with a NA subaru. did not enjoy the results, I will not be using e-manage on my 2jzgte.

shaodome

iTrader: (3)

Awesome...another Megasquirt person! I've been building and tuning them for years and have made it work on a 2JZGTE using the factory cam sensors. It can be done, its just a little time consuming to build the VR Decoder circuits. The is a guy on MSEFI/MSExtra in Australia (or was it South Africa) that uses it all the time. He has posted circuit diagrams for it as well. Phoneix somethin...I think...

Did your friend say why he would have preferred AEM?

I don't see an EEPROM coming available anytime soon...or ever at this point. I could build your a MS for your 2J, but the $ you would have to pay me, might as well go get a standalone. I don't have time to build one off units anymore and have got to the point where I basically have a JIG setup when building for applications like 420a, SR20, BP, KL, etc....I've scaled all that way down since getting occupational asthma

I'm currently in the low lows 11s AFR wise according to the dyno sheet sent to me from the previous owner. This is at 19psi on the JDM twins (which now have a lovable whine by the way).

wanganstyl

iTrader: (5)

why not post the megasquirt info? if it could be sold for ~$750 retail, then would undercut aem and have an opensource tuning platform- what did you have to do to make the MS work? i had all the info to make a 2jz MS except for that?

build it build it buildi! or post the info so we can do it- we are all contributing info to the benefit of the entire community

one guy in vancouver got it working on a 1j, but then scrapped the stock vr sensor setup for a hall effect. realistically, a 2jzgte in layout is not much different than a BMW M50 dohc with 6 individual cop.

shaodome

iTrader: (3)

This is going back 2 years. I'm going to look when I get home for any info I probably still have on it. I have no problem posting info to share with the community. My biggest reason for not going MS2Extra on the 2J is idle control still and I have to figure out how to wire up the a/c. The whole reason I sold my street/race car to get an SC300 was to have a very comfortable yet VERY fast car with all the creature comforts and I can't afford an AMG

With MS, the idle control can ONLY be reactive (unless somebody has changed this in the code recently) to loads placed on the engine. I've spent hours tuning that stupid PWM setup and pretty much hate it. On most of my MS installs now, I run it tandem with the FACTORY ecu to do things like idle and a/c stuff. Being that the VR Circuit on MS is high impedance, it shouldn't affect our factory ECU. I had talked myself out of doing this for my 2J, but you've peaked my interest again.

CuLayTur

iTrader: (1)

I figured you would be using the MS from the MX6, but would you have issues with the batch fire that the MS uses instead of sequential (not sure if the 300 uses that or not)... Also, does the idle control on the 300 use the same PWM that we used on the MX6's?

shaodome

iTrader: (3)

Hey man! A PT guy

I haven't looked to see if the idle is PWM or not, nor do I really care at the moment because I plan to let the factory ECU handle that. Batch fire doesn't phase me as once you come off idle it becomes far less revelant. I've had 850CC idling on a 2.5L with batch fire. Ran a little rich, but still above 12.5:1

F4A22

iTrader: (14)

Please post up what route you take since i'm in the same boat with tuning my car on the aristo ecu.The map sensor has to be adding fuel i pulled my plugs and @16 lbs on the jdm twins on a stock n/a sc300 pump everything looks good(fouled not lean).What is the speed cut on the aristo ecu i think i might be running into it.....

shaodome

iTrader: (3)

I've been up to 120mph ish and haven't hit any limiter. I wouldn't be running the stock pump either though That is NEVER a good plan.

Where in FL are you?

RX7 RAGE

iTrader: (18)

Wow you're running 16 psi on the stock fuel pump?

F4A22

iTrader: (14)

Car has had colder plugs and a mix of 93 and GT100 at all times for a safety net.I'm about 45 minutes south of Orlando and east of Tampa.My TT Denso is on the way.Its funny the Sc300/Sc400 stock fuel pump's are the same part number(I work@ a Toyota dealer) and also in the 4.5 V8 Toyota Landcruiser's so it has some decent flow.