Bean

iTrader: (1)

If that doesn't make you happy in your pants, I dont know what will

If someone doesn't post an answer to what this shows, I'll respond myself and let you know. But this has me VERY excited and confirms a hunch that I had while working on a project of mine.

Bean

iTrader: (1)

Here's a hint:
G1 and G2 are the cam position sensors on a 2jz-GTE engine and the NE is the crank sensor on a 2jz-GTE engine

G1, G2, and NE on the GE engine reside within the distributor and stand for the same thing

5sp_jzz30

iTrader: (2)

they are the same. does this mean that the signal put out by the ecus is the same on the ge and gte are the same?

Bean

iTrader: (1)

The signal the sensors put out is the same
IE: GE distributor puts out the same exact signals as the 2 cam position sensors and the crank position sensor on the GTE

Also: these pins, between USDM,JDM,GE,and GTE ECUs are located in the same exact place on the ECU harness plug!!

shern

iTrader: (6)

Getting rid of your distributor?

cliffud

iTrader: (3)

um. i normally play with web sites, site traffic and foam in my door jams...

what does all this mean?

motorheaddown

Hmm... I thought this was common knowledge. The GE and GTE measure the cam/crank positions using different mounted sensors, but the signal conditioning is the same - namely variable reluctance pickups using a pickup coil and a timed tooth synchronized with cam or crank rotation. Basically, the sensors act as mini A/C generators and output oscillating waveforms.

In your case, it literally is a copy right out of the toyota manual. G1 or G2 represents 1 event for 720 degrees of crankshaft angle coming off the cam, and the NE signal indicates crank triggers. From your picture, it's easy to deduce there are 12 crank signals for each full crank rotation; consequently, there are 12 crank teeth in both cases. As you stated above, however, the crank triggers are actually on the distributor for the GE motor.

I guess I'm missing your point. Toyota uses similar sensors through many of its products. However, there are differences in the GE and GTE sensors that do matter with respect to the ECUs. For example, the metering of air on the GE motor is done with a Karman Vortex Type mass air flow sensor. The GTE, however, uses a Hot Wire Type. Unfortunately, I don't think they can be swapped.

I'm always open to learning something new; so, I'm interesting in understanding the importance of your findings.

Thanks,
-scott

qksl2

If you are suggesting that you can use this to cam sync the AEM and run TT coils, you sure can. Or you can use a single pickup hal or mag sensor on the cam gear and run individual coils; a really simple setup would be the LS1 coils with their built in ignitors (one per coil) to eliminate the distributor, if thats what you are trying to do.

Ian

O. L. T.

iTrader: (17)

Oscillo-what?

Bean

iTrader: (1)

motorheaddown,
you're really close, but I was thinking going a little further. I'm quite certain this wasn't common knowledge at all though. There's no reference to it anywhere unless you actually dig deep into signal analysis info about the 7M and 2jz. Most references to it deal with wiring up AEMs.

GTE ECU on GE harness... specifically, JDM ECU The distributor could even be used with it since the ignition signals are the same (just split among 6 outputs vs 1 for the GTE vs GE)

cheap, boost-friendly timing and fuel maps using a sensor that has a linear relationship between pressure and voltage. Makes for easy upgrades.. enter 3bar sensor and ~560-570cc injectors vs stock 440 and 2.3bar. Once could most assuredly use an SAFC to tune a big map sensor for larger injectors. Like a 3.5bar for
~660-680cc injectors. If they got too out of hand, one could use a greddy emanage blue since it can modify actual injector pulsewidths and also handle timing. emanage can datalog with wideband input too and is very affordable.

And as for ditching the distributor... I already know of a way go coil-on-plug with a simple add-on electronics board using the stock GE ECU. But wouldnt need that with this. A GTE ignitor and wires run would fix the issue for all time. Only question is how the coils will be run under the big GE intake manifold

motorheaddown

Ok... I thought you were going in that direction but with the USDM GTE ECU not the JDM GTE. That's why I mentioned the mass airflow sensors. You would definitely have to address the mass airflow signals because they are different.

Swapping in a GTE ECU would certainly work and could probably be done without the GTE ignitor right now. Years ago, the craze was LS1 coils with the AEM. Why?... because LS1 coils have an integrated igniter and could be driven directly from the AEM. Additionally, they are very large coils providing a more powerful spark on OEM dwell. Unfortunately, it did not work for everyone.

I tried it as far back as '03... I don't remember, exactly. That's when I did the research about G1, G2, and NE:
http://www.mkiv.com/specifications/ncf/ncf93/ncf064.jpg
http://www.mkiv.com/specifications/ncf/ncf93/ncf065.jpg
http://www.mkiv.com/specifications/ncf/ncf93/ncf097.jpg
and here
http://www.autoshop101.com/forms/h24.pdf pages 13 - 15

Anyway, LS1 coils will fit under the GE intake, but it's very tight, and I'm pretty sure it will work with the GTE ECU without an igniter. However, you'll need a light spring (ala TT coils) to adapt the spark post of the LS1 coil to contact the top of the spark plug... been there, done that. Obviously, the GE harness will have to be augmented with 5 additional wires to drive coils 2 - 5. You'll also have to address the mass air flow sensor as mentioned above.

-scott

Bean

iTrader: (1)

Well, with the JDM ECU, the MAF sensor is not needed; and the MAP sensor it uses is the same one that comes with the USDM motor as a turbo pressure sensor, it even uses the same pin input on the ECU. What needs to be run is an IAT. This pin on the ECU is the same one the KVF meter of the GE and the MAF of the GTE use with their internal IAT.

Wish I had seen some of that info earlier Any extra info on adapting a light spring in the coil to adapt the spark post in the LS1 coils? And yes I agree, this could be done with the stock ignitor and using the stock distributor/coil

motorheaddown

You'll need two things to adapt LS1 coils, rubber boots to seal the plug and coil, and a spring from the coil post to the top of the spark plug. There also has to be a GM pigtail that's required, but I don't remember what was used.

AnArkey on SF adapted the LS1 solution for the AEM. However, I don't know if he's still around. At one time he worked for TorqueFreaks.

-scott

Bean

iTrader: (1)

Just checked the GM IAT sensor specs vs the GTE IAT and they are very very similar. Enough that it shouldnt cause a problem if someone used a GM IAT hooked into a JDM ECU

Bean

iTrader: (1)

7M GTE electronics are also adaptable for a waste-spark setup if you're trying to save money. Couldn't also the Ls1 coils be mounted in front of the intake manifold and not have to cram them under the valvecover? Just run wires to the plugs

Biggest benefit here to NA-T users is to get rid of the bulkiness of the distributor. The distributor has been proven to handle A LOT of power.