Crank pulley debate
06-17-07, 07:10 AM
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Crank pulley debate
So I have searched on this forum and others, but I am getting different opinions. Has anyone ran Unorthodox racing's crank pulley for an extended period of time, and if so, any problems/praises?
I am debating on purchasing one in my "pursuit of unsqueakiness", a problem which is in another thread.
I am debating on purchasing one in my "pursuit of unsqueakiness", a problem which is in another thread.
06-17-07, 07:43 AM
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Amazing what you can find with a few clicks! Here's what Unorthodox Racing says about this issue......
"People are getting their crank pulleys confused with the harmonic dampers found on some V6 / V8 engines. "Harmonic Balancer" is a term used loosely in the automotive industry. Technically, this type of device does not exist. The "balancer" part comes from engines that are externally balanced and have a counterweight cast into the damper, hence the merging of the two terms. None of the applications we offer use a counterweight as part of the pulley, as these engines are all internally balanced.
The pulleys on most of the new import and smaller domestic engines have an elastomer (rubber ring) incorporated into the pulley that makes them look similar to a harmonic damper. The elastomer in the OEM pulley serves as an isolator, which is there to suppress natural vibration and noise from the engine itself, the A/C compressor, P/S pump, and alternator. This is what the manufacturers call NVH (Noise Vibration & Harshness) when referring to noticeable noise and vibration in the passenger compartment. It is important to note in these applications, the elastomer is inadequate in size and durability to act as an effective torsional damper. If you look at the pulleys on some imports there is no rubber to be found at all. We have samples of these, mostly from Acura/Honda, the Nissan Altima, 1.8L Eclipse, 2.3L Fords, Chrysler 2.2L's, and 1.8L VW's, to mention a few. This is not to say with our pulleys you will hear a ton of noise or feel more vibration from your engine compartment. Most owners who have installed our pulleys notice the engine actually feels smoother. This is result of replacing the heavy crank pulley with our crank pulley. NVH is variable and unique to every car. NVH will increase with the installation of an aftermarket intake and/or exhaust, for example. Think of OEM intake systems in newer cars, they use baffles and resonators in the intake to quiet all the intake noise. Aftermarket intakes eliminate these resonators and create dramatic increases in engine noise from the throttle opening and closing. So to most tuners, certain types of NVH can make the driving experience more enjoyable.
The purpose of a traditional harmonic damper is to protect against crank failure from torsional movement. This is not necessary in most modern engines because of the many advances in engine design and materials. Factors such as stroke length, displacement, inline, V configurations, piston dwell time, piston pin off-set, power output, etc., do determine when and how these harmonics and torsional movements occur.
Again, there is a lot of internet hearsay about crank pulleys. When engine problems occur, too often people are quick to blame the pulley first, rather than taking the time to look logically into why there was a problem. We hope that after reading this you will understand the crank pulleys better."
Whatcha think?
"People are getting their crank pulleys confused with the harmonic dampers found on some V6 / V8 engines. "Harmonic Balancer" is a term used loosely in the automotive industry. Technically, this type of device does not exist. The "balancer" part comes from engines that are externally balanced and have a counterweight cast into the damper, hence the merging of the two terms. None of the applications we offer use a counterweight as part of the pulley, as these engines are all internally balanced.
The pulleys on most of the new import and smaller domestic engines have an elastomer (rubber ring) incorporated into the pulley that makes them look similar to a harmonic damper. The elastomer in the OEM pulley serves as an isolator, which is there to suppress natural vibration and noise from the engine itself, the A/C compressor, P/S pump, and alternator. This is what the manufacturers call NVH (Noise Vibration & Harshness) when referring to noticeable noise and vibration in the passenger compartment. It is important to note in these applications, the elastomer is inadequate in size and durability to act as an effective torsional damper. If you look at the pulleys on some imports there is no rubber to be found at all. We have samples of these, mostly from Acura/Honda, the Nissan Altima, 1.8L Eclipse, 2.3L Fords, Chrysler 2.2L's, and 1.8L VW's, to mention a few. This is not to say with our pulleys you will hear a ton of noise or feel more vibration from your engine compartment. Most owners who have installed our pulleys notice the engine actually feels smoother. This is result of replacing the heavy crank pulley with our crank pulley. NVH is variable and unique to every car. NVH will increase with the installation of an aftermarket intake and/or exhaust, for example. Think of OEM intake systems in newer cars, they use baffles and resonators in the intake to quiet all the intake noise. Aftermarket intakes eliminate these resonators and create dramatic increases in engine noise from the throttle opening and closing. So to most tuners, certain types of NVH can make the driving experience more enjoyable.
The purpose of a traditional harmonic damper is to protect against crank failure from torsional movement. This is not necessary in most modern engines because of the many advances in engine design and materials. Factors such as stroke length, displacement, inline, V configurations, piston dwell time, piston pin off-set, power output, etc., do determine when and how these harmonics and torsional movements occur.
Again, there is a lot of internet hearsay about crank pulleys. When engine problems occur, too often people are quick to blame the pulley first, rather than taking the time to look logically into why there was a problem. We hope that after reading this you will understand the crank pulleys better."
Whatcha think?
06-17-07, 08:24 AM
#3
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I run a lightweight crankshaft pulley from Underdog on my RX300 and have had no problems in almost than 1.5 years of use. About the only import thing is to make sure the belts are clean to get better effectiveness.
You mentioned Unorthodox. My cousin has a 1995 VW Golf VR6 and I bought him some UR pulleys a while back. No issues. You can feel the hard pull almost immediately, though the feeling is less so as you hit about 3rd. They took about a week's worth of driving, before the full potential was realized, but they took a good .15 off of his 1/4 mile time by my calculations.
You mentioned Unorthodox. My cousin has a 1995 VW Golf VR6 and I bought him some UR pulleys a while back. No issues. You can feel the hard pull almost immediately, though the feeling is less so as you hit about 3rd. They took about a week's worth of driving, before the full potential was realized, but they took a good .15 off of his 1/4 mile time by my calculations.
06-17-07, 09:46 AM
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That's good to hear! So do those cars have a torsion/dampener in the crank pulley? That's what SC300 owners are concerned about, because the UR pulley doesn't have it. i'll see if more people can give me opinions before I decide for sure, but I'm sold so far.
06-17-07, 03:00 PM
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Nice,nice. Well, ladies and gents, I'm sold.I'l have them in a week or two Another answer, another thread we can close. Thanx a mill guys!
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06-17-07, 03:56 PM
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I run a ATI harmonic dampener, originally i ran a unorthodox unit and just happened to spin a bearing, but i also had other parts and problems that could have contributed to that unfortunate event. The new ATI unit designed after the stock dampener and is only slightly more money than OEM. However, the ATI unit is far superior as the rubber dampening bushings are encased inside the unit preventing oil and road debree from degrading them. Actually, the Titan Motorsports crank pulley is an ATI with a sticker on it jacked up $100. I am 100% sold on the ATI unit. Just my .02
06-20-07, 05:06 PM
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One thing i would like to point out about the quote from UR's website...Do you guys honestly think they would tell you the truth if they knew there pulleys caused problems down the road? This is there product and of course they are going to support it as much as they can and "debunk" these hearsays. Do they have any real r&d data of there own products? If what UR says is true, why is it required by the NHRA to have a dampened crank pulley to legally compete even in the sport compact class?
06-20-07, 06:01 PM
#13
It amazes me how so many people over look this information. Why would yota design our crank pulleys with dampeners if a non dampened pulley could be used with equal or better results? I would imagine a simple non dampened pulley could be mass produced for much less than a dampened one.
One thing i would like to point out about the quote from UR's website...Do you guys honestly think they would tell you the truth if they knew there pulleys caused problems down the road? This is there product and of course they are going to support it as much as they can and "debunk" these hearsays. Do they have any real r&d data of there own products? If what UR says is true, why is it required by the NHRA to have a dampened crank pulley to legally compete even in the sport compact class?
One thing i would like to point out about the quote from UR's website...Do you guys honestly think they would tell you the truth if they knew there pulleys caused problems down the road? This is there product and of course they are going to support it as much as they can and "debunk" these hearsays. Do they have any real r&d data of there own products? If what UR says is true, why is it required by the NHRA to have a dampened crank pulley to legally compete even in the sport compact class?
Some will run it, others will not. Nobody is going to change the world here.
06-20-07, 07:22 PM
#14
Its not an opinion though. Its in the motor's design specs. Thats like pulling the CPU cooler off the CPU and expecting it to last forever.
Some of the new chips run pretty cool; but they will eventually wear prematurely from excess heat fluctuations.
Some of the new chips run pretty cool; but they will eventually wear prematurely from excess heat fluctuations.
06-20-07, 07:38 PM
#15
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/sho...=288753&page=2
here's another thread about the same exact thing we are in the middle of still...
is it worth the 5 hp to potentially damage your motor? seriously... there are lots more hp options that are not potentially dangerous...
here's another thread about the same exact thing we are in the middle of still...
is it worth the 5 hp to potentially damage your motor? seriously... there are lots more hp options that are not potentially dangerous...