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I can't believe I worked this hard and long for this piece of information. If you are not going to install a cam you will be well served by the shorty systems or Tex headers. If you want true headers that scavange you have only one choice that I can find and that is the EKtuning. Theirs is 4 into 1 and that config is used for high rpm power but it will work well with any performance cam. Just biases the power to the upper end. My choice would be a TRI Y config for streetability optimization but it seems if I want that I will need to build it. EK is 304 stainless also and that is a mojor plus.
If ANYBODY has more or better header info please advise me.
John
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How about you post a list of the manufacturers of headers that actually FIT the SC and web links? I can't even find THOSE.. Now if someone would just make a set of Twin Turbo headers..Like Ryan's car..that would be nice. Heck, for now I'd be happy with headers and a new engine back exhaust. I'd bet there's 50 HP hiding behind those four ancient cats..
Dave
I don't own these EK's but I have read that they are a bolt on item. The posts indicate that the S&S have to be modified to fit the newer SC. I may be wrong but they are a bolt on for the 92-94 SC. JGRADY knows and he has shorties that are great.
I will email EK and post their reply. I want to know what the specs are on their product anyway.
EK hasn't said much around here-- someone tried to set up a group buy a few weeks ago-- and nothing happened with it-- They aren't very aggressive about marketing their product, or the mods won't approve them as a vendor, but whichever it is, the EK's are not true equal length either from the pics I've seen.
There is a funny thing about their site that I have noticed-- They only have ONE PRODUCT!! They have tons of categories, Audi, BMW, Porsche, Volks, Honda-- But the only product that exists in all those listings is for the SC400 -- seems strange if you ask me-- No dyno sheets, no visible effort to become a CL vendor-- hmmmmm...
I do however think a true equal length long tube is totally possible, and really don't know why Tex didn't spend the extra few hrs. in their design stage to work that out.
A 4-2-1 style like the Tex set is so close to being equal length, that it would almost be worth buying them and butchering a few of the primaries and reconfiguring them a bit to a true equal length--
I'd love to see someone do it -- If I had a bender, a tig, a lift, etc-- I wish
__________________
99 ES300 250k and still going strong
92 SC4 sold with 180k and ran perfect
I have a dodge truck but nobody probably cares, but it's faster than any lex I've owned so far...
i'll be using the s&s headers regardless of the modification to get them to fit, they bolt on to the motor side just fine. their design is very streetable and is also a solid design that will yield gains all around rather than drop out in the lowend.
i'll be using the s&s headers regardless of the modification to get them to fit, they bolt on to the motor side just fine. their design is very streetable and is also a solid design that will yield gains all around rather than drop out in the lowend.
They do drop out in the low end. Go read some of Jibby's posts. It's not TOO bad, but jibby says it's noticeable. I think it still does drop out on the low end is cause it basically is a long type header once u take out all the cats and make the custom piping. But im no too familiar w/ the design or modification needed.
They do drop out in the low end. Go read some of Jibby's posts. It's not TOO bad, but jibby says it's noticeable. I think it still does drop out on the low end is cause it basically is a long type header once u take out all the cats and make the custom piping. But im no too familiar w/ the design or modification needed.
Having read a lot of Jibby's posts, I feel his exhaust set-up was geared strongly toward the top end: 2.5" piping, cannon mufflers, etc.
While shorty headers are biased toward the top end, I do not think that they -on their own- hinder low end performance. What lies from the headers back dictates that a lot.
If I was biasing my exhaust toward the top end, I would go with S&S headers in a heartbeat. There is a small amount of modification necessary to keep the exhaust system close to the car, but nothing a good shop can not handle. I believe they were designed for the GS400's UZ engine.
If I was biasing my exhaust toward the low end, I would stongly consider the Aussie headers. They were designed for the Soarer, and -while imperfect- are far more perfect than the stock exhaust manifold.
Regardless, what lies from the headers back strongly influences the performance characteristics of your exhaust. If you want to maintain low end with the S&S headers, this could absolutely be accomplished even though the shorty style headers are indeed biased toward the top end.
ps. I would struggle to buy the EK Tuning headers simply because there is little track record and their company website seems rather enigmatic. Personally, the S&S and Aussie varieties are the only options short of having custom headers made.
well even if it does hurt low end, you could make up for that with a dragon TC right?
headers and the TC would help out eachother's negative side effects
In many instances, you are correct. But, this is not necessarily true.
You could put on a Dragon, then do your exhaust, and still have less low end than stock. Headers to a 3" exhaust with cannon mufflers would give you sick performance up top, but even with a torque converter, your low end would be horse manure.
It is my understanding a Dragon simply increases the stall speed to ~2800rpm while also decreasing the diameter of the TC from 10"? to 8". Both of these characteristics get you off the line. If your exhaust system was reasonable in its bias toward the top end, a Dragon would definitely present your car with a good balance of power.
While not to the degree of a TC and header-back exhaust, a simple header-back exhaust -when designed properly- could absolutely give you that same balance of power...though of course not quite as pronounced as with the Dragon.
ps. A smaller diameter TC with a higher stall speed gets pretty hot. A tranny cooler would increase the life of your tranny if you had any reliance on your vehicle as a daily driver.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucky SC
Also wut are the names of these Aussie headers that you speak of that help low power as well?
link?
I believe the guy who developed the Aussie headers was named Terry and nicknamed Tex. Aussie headers and Tex headers are the same thing. For that matter, Rush headers are the same as they are the ones who sell them: http://rushimports.com.au/index.php?...products_id=31
I am not the expert but I have a few points you might want to disprove if you can.
The shorties are not a "tuned" manifold. With runners that short the engine would have to be turning 14Krpm for scavanging to occur. The S&S headers are a LOW BACK PRESSURE device. That is worth a ton all by itself. Especially when our stock item is sooooo very restrictive. Opening up the rest of the system yields all the power that you can get from this engine configuration. If you are not going to install a cam....get the shorties for $600 and ride the leading edge. That might be 10 to 25 HP, I don't know.
EK headers are a beauty to behold. They are the 4 into 1 design and cost $1,000. Probably worth every penny. Only if you are using a high perf street or race cam with a lot of intake and ex overlap. I have never owned a header like this but their effectiveness is well worn path of proofs. They work. We used to call them the "dragster cam" cause they made their power up on top. Right where a drag type engine wants it. Hig peak horsepower. Didn't mean it wouldn't perform well on the street...it did and 90% of the headers were of this design. In the 60's and 70's now Clide. Still holds though.
The smart street racers went with a spiffy tri Y to get some low end and mid range improvement and still get a little top end. The hp froom this config never came close to the peak produced by the 4 into 1 set up. Advertising and that peak no. sold the 4's and they were cheaper to manufacture anyway so the mfr.s were all for the missconception.
TOYSRME has a great post about this. His opinion is that the tri Y is much better but harder to design and is cam and head design affected. Way back they used to have shoot outs between the different headers and they would see how each performed with different cam profiles. This was a really big issue way back. They had dyno run sheets for 4 different headers using 3 different cams. Thats 12 dyno sheets to really confuse you and argue over. I don't see that now and it is because we are limited to the zero overlap smog cam that a tuned header does nothing for at all. $ into 1 into 4 or tri Y either one will only get you a reduced back pressure gain and benifit that you can get from a "shorty".
I am going to work on building a tri y but I will install a shorty for the street till I can do the cam and all.
the wrong pair of cylinders are merged with the tri-Y headers that are available for our cars, would be better if they didn't do it that way, considering the cost and hassle.
The bottom end should be better with those headers, after tuning the mixture/advance curves.
I thought I was the only one that spoted that. I couldn't believe my eyes, nor could I believe I was alone. They look good though in terms of apparent workmanship. I am so very torn on this. I haven't named the Mfr. and neither did you so I guess everyone will just have to keep their guard up and ask questions.
SC400 exhaust headers/extractors/scavangers
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