S&S Header on a '99 LS - A tale of woe
09-25-06, 07:22 PM
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S&S Header on a '99 LS - A tale of woe
Well, it’s been a couple of months since my (financially) painful experience installing the S&S Shorty Headers. My wounds are mostly healed, so it’s time to write about it!
A preamble: I have a ’99 LS400, black on black. I purchased it used (with just under 50K miles) 4 years ago. I didn't winter-drive it, so it's still in fantastic condition. It now has 126,000 km, or about 75,000 miles. I was ready for a "mid-life kicker", and had been following the S&S Header development with great anticipation. Since the guy who started the S&S Header project (John Brady – what a brilliant, tenacious guy!) had the same car as me, I was sure that I was in safe hands ordering a set of headers. What could go wrong? If anyone had any problems, it would be John; the early worm gets the bird, right? He’d sort out all the problems, I would learn from his mistakes, and tada! I would have a simple, inexpensive, safe horsepower boost for my ride.
HA!
My first mistake was assuming that John was actually going to install a set of these headers on his own car. Installing a set was certainly his intention, but unfortunate financial circumstances prevented that from happening. So in June, nine months after receiving my headers, I finally caved and decided to get ‘em installed. The GS guys were raving about them, and hey, they’re so pretty!
I had read the posts. I was aware that there was a flange issue, and was prepared to deal with it. It seemed like a minor incovenience, in the overall scheme of things. The important question was, who was I going to get to do the work?
After consulting with a passionate local Lexus LS owner (Sharad Khan), I hooked up with Alan Shek of Kensai Racing, a high-performance shop in Markham, just north of Toronto. Alan agreed to do the work for a mutually agreeable fee. I printed out the posts with the instructions and the caveats, dropped off my Lexus, rented a car to drive for a couple of days, and drove back home, eagerly awaiting the call saying that the work was done, and I could come on up and pick up my rejuvenated, pumped-up baby.
I called them the next afternoon (no patience). Seems that they were having a devil of a time getting the steering rack off, and getting the stock headers off. I went up that evening to see my baby, and could see why they were having difficulties: it was virtually impossible to get at the last couple of nuts (see picture 1). But, they were almost there, and I was sure that I would get the call the next evening.
By 4:00 the next afternoon, I hadn’t heard back, so I called them again: “Well, the instructions are wrong, and I think that the headers are built different too. Oh, by the way, the only way we’ll ever get these headers out is by hauling the engine out of the car”. Not good news at all! It was time to head up again to see what was going on.
When I got there, Alan showed me that the S&S headers (right side only installed) end up in a totally different place than the stock headers. (see picture 2).
I was dumbfounded. This totally took me by surprise. I put the other S&S header next to the stock header on the floor (see picture 3).
Not only was the flange rotated, but the stock header is longer, and the exhaust is at a different angle! Why hadn't they caught this when they installed the header? Because I had told them that the headers were a direct bolt-on replacement, so they believed me! WRONG!.
Why the difference between the GS and LS headers? It turns out that the steering rack is mounted differently in the 98/99/00 LS (see the aluminum strut in picture 4), requiring the headers to be longer and on a more shallow angle than in the GS (and SC, and all the 430s).
So, I was now stuck between the proverbial rock and hard place. Either I had to shell out another grand to have the engine pulled so that they could put back the stock headers, or try to custom fit the exhaust to the new headers. I chose the latter, because I couldn't bear the thought of spending all that money to end up where I began.
The next day, Kensai installed the other header, with a new challenge. The new header was less than 1/3” away from the steering box. I could see my steering rack roasting like lamb on a spit (rack of lamb, get it?). (see picture 5). It was now very evident why the LS header was designed differently from the other cars.
I expressed my concerns about heat, but Alan was confident that heat would not be a problem if he wrapped the headers near the steering box, and then wrapped the hydraulic lines as well. Which is exactly what he did. Two months later, I’ve had no problems at all. Bless you, Alan!
In order to get the stock cats to fit, Kensai rotated them around so that they bolted onto the S&S headers, then cut off the bottom flanges, and welded on new flanges at the correct (new) angle. They also welded extensions onto the exhaust (again with new flanges) so that everything met up (pictures 6, 7, 8 and 9). It looked great! Hopefully, it was going to be worth the (now expensive) modification!
After everything was installed, I made the rash decision to try John Brady’s low-restriction intake modification. I had drawn the cut lines on my air box a year previous, but had chickened out then. Emboldened by overcoming impossible adversity with the header installation, I cut out the front of the air box.
The results were… strange. The engine boggled at low RPM, but had great power (and intake noise) at higher RPMs. I realized that I had no idea whether the problem was with the header installation, or with the airbox cutout I had done. Lesson: do one thing at a time!
I drove the car around for about a month like this, then decided that I hated the performance, and that the too-open intake was probably responsible. I screwed the cutout back onto the air cover with some mild steel flanges (an interesting operation worthy of its own post), with magical results. The low-end bogging completely disappeared. The car now sounded virtually stock; yet the increased boogie factor was undeniable. Chirping the tires came easily, and the car was truly quick; I even beat a G35 coupe off the line one day (to 60 mph): big surprise for both of us!
In the end, I am very glad I got the headers, despite the pain and aggravation. The car is definitely a lot more fun now.
I plan on sending my stock headers back to S&S (at their expense) so that they can build a proper jig for LS headers. I know that John Brady will need a set one of these days…
A preamble: I have a ’99 LS400, black on black. I purchased it used (with just under 50K miles) 4 years ago. I didn't winter-drive it, so it's still in fantastic condition. It now has 126,000 km, or about 75,000 miles. I was ready for a "mid-life kicker", and had been following the S&S Header development with great anticipation. Since the guy who started the S&S Header project (John Brady – what a brilliant, tenacious guy!) had the same car as me, I was sure that I was in safe hands ordering a set of headers. What could go wrong? If anyone had any problems, it would be John; the early worm gets the bird, right? He’d sort out all the problems, I would learn from his mistakes, and tada! I would have a simple, inexpensive, safe horsepower boost for my ride.
HA!
My first mistake was assuming that John was actually going to install a set of these headers on his own car. Installing a set was certainly his intention, but unfortunate financial circumstances prevented that from happening. So in June, nine months after receiving my headers, I finally caved and decided to get ‘em installed. The GS guys were raving about them, and hey, they’re so pretty!
I had read the posts. I was aware that there was a flange issue, and was prepared to deal with it. It seemed like a minor incovenience, in the overall scheme of things. The important question was, who was I going to get to do the work?
After consulting with a passionate local Lexus LS owner (Sharad Khan), I hooked up with Alan Shek of Kensai Racing, a high-performance shop in Markham, just north of Toronto. Alan agreed to do the work for a mutually agreeable fee. I printed out the posts with the instructions and the caveats, dropped off my Lexus, rented a car to drive for a couple of days, and drove back home, eagerly awaiting the call saying that the work was done, and I could come on up and pick up my rejuvenated, pumped-up baby.
I called them the next afternoon (no patience). Seems that they were having a devil of a time getting the steering rack off, and getting the stock headers off. I went up that evening to see my baby, and could see why they were having difficulties: it was virtually impossible to get at the last couple of nuts (see picture 1). But, they were almost there, and I was sure that I would get the call the next evening.
By 4:00 the next afternoon, I hadn’t heard back, so I called them again: “Well, the instructions are wrong, and I think that the headers are built different too. Oh, by the way, the only way we’ll ever get these headers out is by hauling the engine out of the car”. Not good news at all! It was time to head up again to see what was going on.
When I got there, Alan showed me that the S&S headers (right side only installed) end up in a totally different place than the stock headers. (see picture 2).
I was dumbfounded. This totally took me by surprise. I put the other S&S header next to the stock header on the floor (see picture 3).
Not only was the flange rotated, but the stock header is longer, and the exhaust is at a different angle! Why hadn't they caught this when they installed the header? Because I had told them that the headers were a direct bolt-on replacement, so they believed me! WRONG!.
Why the difference between the GS and LS headers? It turns out that the steering rack is mounted differently in the 98/99/00 LS (see the aluminum strut in picture 4), requiring the headers to be longer and on a more shallow angle than in the GS (and SC, and all the 430s).
So, I was now stuck between the proverbial rock and hard place. Either I had to shell out another grand to have the engine pulled so that they could put back the stock headers, or try to custom fit the exhaust to the new headers. I chose the latter, because I couldn't bear the thought of spending all that money to end up where I began.
The next day, Kensai installed the other header, with a new challenge. The new header was less than 1/3” away from the steering box. I could see my steering rack roasting like lamb on a spit (rack of lamb, get it?). (see picture 5). It was now very evident why the LS header was designed differently from the other cars.
I expressed my concerns about heat, but Alan was confident that heat would not be a problem if he wrapped the headers near the steering box, and then wrapped the hydraulic lines as well. Which is exactly what he did. Two months later, I’ve had no problems at all. Bless you, Alan!
In order to get the stock cats to fit, Kensai rotated them around so that they bolted onto the S&S headers, then cut off the bottom flanges, and welded on new flanges at the correct (new) angle. They also welded extensions onto the exhaust (again with new flanges) so that everything met up (pictures 6, 7, 8 and 9). It looked great! Hopefully, it was going to be worth the (now expensive) modification!
After everything was installed, I made the rash decision to try John Brady’s low-restriction intake modification. I had drawn the cut lines on my air box a year previous, but had chickened out then. Emboldened by overcoming impossible adversity with the header installation, I cut out the front of the air box.
The results were… strange. The engine boggled at low RPM, but had great power (and intake noise) at higher RPMs. I realized that I had no idea whether the problem was with the header installation, or with the airbox cutout I had done. Lesson: do one thing at a time!
I drove the car around for about a month like this, then decided that I hated the performance, and that the too-open intake was probably responsible. I screwed the cutout back onto the air cover with some mild steel flanges (an interesting operation worthy of its own post), with magical results. The low-end bogging completely disappeared. The car now sounded virtually stock; yet the increased boogie factor was undeniable. Chirping the tires came easily, and the car was truly quick; I even beat a G35 coupe off the line one day (to 60 mph): big surprise for both of us!
In the end, I am very glad I got the headers, despite the pain and aggravation. The car is definitely a lot more fun now.
I plan on sending my stock headers back to S&S (at their expense) so that they can build a proper jig for LS headers. I know that John Brady will need a set one of these days…
09-25-06, 10:09 PM
#2
Lexus Champion
Howard, wow, quite a story. Great persistence. Hats off to you.
Very strange on the intake mod. Mine has been open for thousands of miles and even did back to back testing at the dragstrip (have a stock un modded housing). Never have any bog and it was faster with the mod. Go figure.
Very strange on the intake mod. Mine has been open for thousands of miles and even did back to back testing at the dragstrip (have a stock un modded housing). Never have any bog and it was faster with the mod. Go figure.
09-25-06, 10:25 PM
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I concure with your problems and feel for you as I went thru the same BS that you did with these headers...It took me forever to get the headers in the first place from S&S and when I did finally get them they did not fit in many ways... The flanges and bolt paterns were way off at the down pipes..I needed to make custom made down pipes with custom fitting flanges to match up with the S&S Headers...The hole patterns was wrong for the EGR screw part on the S&S headers as well..Had to re-thread that on both headers and also had to delete the 2 little stock cats just to make it all work and fit.....Needless to say I will never pass smog emissions again with my car here in the state of California...
So what I thought would originally be an $800 mod with some minor fitment problems quickly turned into $1300 delayed mod nightmare.....John Brady needs to go back with the S&S Header company and make them friggin fit right for the each year Lexus car or not sell them at all in my opinion....Or S&S needs to state the fitment facts upon purchase which they don't on their website.......
Even though I knew they were not true bolt on headers I never imagined there would be that much trouble with the install..I was pissed at all the custom work I had to do and pay for.....The final power results were good at mid to highend but I did end up losing a little lowend torque which also pissed me off....My car was a rocket off the line and still is, but you never like to lose anything with a $1300 mod...For someone installing these headers with the stock torque converter they will be in for a suprise as more lowend sluggishness will occure....I contacted all the pro's and experts and they told me no lowend would be lost prior to the S&S Header purchase.. All horse crap as I knew it from all my years of Chevy builds with headers, lowend always suffered with shorty header installs......Oh well..
All in all the header design and flow is excellent but everything else sucks bigtime.....
In conclusion I felt so bad for what I new the future buyers of these headers were in for, I am now trying to design my own true bolt on header prototype thru a friend for the right year model Lexus and then have it mass produced in Hong Kong... Then develope a website to sell them on for all the worthy Lex owners whom deserve them.....My final goal would be to present a "true bolt on" header set for each year Lexus car that are truley designed for the right YEAR car!!!!...Wish me luck..
There is a new company that just came out with the TRUE bolt on Mid length headers for the SC4's..forgot the name but they are out their...and of course the existing Long tubed Tex Headers which are made out of country exist......
If I could do it all again I would go with a "true bolt on header" all day long....End of Story.....
So what I thought would originally be an $800 mod with some minor fitment problems quickly turned into $1300 delayed mod nightmare.....John Brady needs to go back with the S&S Header company and make them friggin fit right for the each year Lexus car or not sell them at all in my opinion....Or S&S needs to state the fitment facts upon purchase which they don't on their website.......
Even though I knew they were not true bolt on headers I never imagined there would be that much trouble with the install..I was pissed at all the custom work I had to do and pay for.....The final power results were good at mid to highend but I did end up losing a little lowend torque which also pissed me off....My car was a rocket off the line and still is, but you never like to lose anything with a $1300 mod...For someone installing these headers with the stock torque converter they will be in for a suprise as more lowend sluggishness will occure....I contacted all the pro's and experts and they told me no lowend would be lost prior to the S&S Header purchase.. All horse crap as I knew it from all my years of Chevy builds with headers, lowend always suffered with shorty header installs......Oh well..
All in all the header design and flow is excellent but everything else sucks bigtime.....
In conclusion I felt so bad for what I new the future buyers of these headers were in for, I am now trying to design my own true bolt on header prototype thru a friend for the right year model Lexus and then have it mass produced in Hong Kong... Then develope a website to sell them on for all the worthy Lex owners whom deserve them.....My final goal would be to present a "true bolt on" header set for each year Lexus car that are truley designed for the right YEAR car!!!!...Wish me luck..
There is a new company that just came out with the TRUE bolt on Mid length headers for the SC4's..forgot the name but they are out their...and of course the existing Long tubed Tex Headers which are made out of country exist......
If I could do it all again I would go with a "true bolt on header" all day long....End of Story.....
Last edited by jibbby; 09-25-06 at 10:31 PM.
09-26-06, 10:45 AM
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Jibby, no offense but the problems you are describing should come at no surprise at all. It was well documented by jbrady that these headers were made to fit vvti engines. I was contemplating getting a pair, so I simply pm'd jbrady and he told me specifically what would need to be done to make these headers fit my 95 sc, which was shorter cats and a custom downpipe. The 98-2000 LS issue is definately an anomoly due to a relatively undocumented change in the configuration of the LS's steering system (perhaps due to the LS's softer steering system). I'm glad you are taking the initiative to have another set of headers designed for the rest of us, but please don't bash jbrady or SS for this. They did a ton of work to make this happen and is greatly appreciated by the community, including myself even though i have chosen not to opt for ss headers at this time. And if happen to find a link for the mid headers, please post, all contributions are appreciated.
09-23-07, 04:48 PM
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Well.. these headers where a pita.. when you check alldata to see how the stock manifolds are removed they say.. DROP THE ENGINE.. WTF?
well.. in the end... what we did was lower the cross member, removed the rack and pinion and we were able to fit them..
The first pain was to remove the heat shields... Which we DESTROYED. after that... tightening the nuts was such a pill also... lots of universal joints where needed. In the end..t he passenger header cracked! how great. At least is not the most difficult one and i'll see if we can weld it in place.
One more thing... NO power increase... NO buttometer difference.. NOTHING... i did notice that removing the middle resonator and adding dual tubes all the way gave more torque to the car. other than that.. headers suck.. don't change them..
Sorry.. but.. Pain to install.. they are not designed for the ls400. Very close to the rack (after almost a year, no situations still but...) had to do a custom everything, no power increase... Leaking right side header??? well.. you know... its not worth it.. AT ALL... underhood heat is the same also.
well.. in the end... what we did was lower the cross member, removed the rack and pinion and we were able to fit them..
The first pain was to remove the heat shields... Which we DESTROYED. after that... tightening the nuts was such a pill also... lots of universal joints where needed. In the end..t he passenger header cracked! how great. At least is not the most difficult one and i'll see if we can weld it in place.
One more thing... NO power increase... NO buttometer difference.. NOTHING... i did notice that removing the middle resonator and adding dual tubes all the way gave more torque to the car. other than that.. headers suck.. don't change them..
Sorry.. but.. Pain to install.. they are not designed for the ls400. Very close to the rack (after almost a year, no situations still but...) had to do a custom everything, no power increase... Leaking right side header??? well.. you know... its not worth it.. AT ALL... underhood heat is the same also.
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