EGR removal - what do you think..
07-27-06, 09:52 PM
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EGR removal - what do you think..
hey guys, i have seen a few threads about EGR removal and was considering it my self till i found this:
tell me what you think
from:
http://www.overboost.com/story.asp?id=422
all the way to the bottom
(while ur looking at the article, look at the section beginning of the section:electronics and emissions, if im not mistaken, that glove box is from a SC? lol)
tell me what you think
A lot of people have an inherent distrust of modern automotive emissions laws, usually garnered through misinformation. The truth about emissions devices as found on stock automobiles is that they are integrated with the engine's electronic management and play in a team effort in a properly running and powerful engine. Take the Exhaust Gas Recirculation (EGR) valve. It is viewed as “the bad guy” because it allows – gasp! – exhaust gas to be recirculated back into the intake manifold. But once you know the actual influence recycled exhaust gasses have on your engine, you'll happily leave it connected as intended by the factory. The EGR only opens (allowing exhaust gas into the combustion chamber) during part throttle conditions when the vehicle is accelerating or under load. Nitrogen oxides within the exhaust gas actually cool the combustion chamber and allow a more aggressive ignition timing profile. Those of you who have disconnected an EGR valve probably noticed detonation, and detonation is always an indicator of a power loss.
http://www.overboost.com/story.asp?id=422
all the way to the bottom
(while ur looking at the article, look at the section beginning of the section:electronics and emissions, if im not mistaken, that glove box is from a SC? lol)
07-27-06, 10:02 PM
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Originally Posted by lighthalo
hey guys, i have seen a few threads about EGR removal and was considering it my self till i found this:
tell me what you think
from:
http://www.overboost.com/story.asp?id=422
all the way to the bottom
(while ur looking at the article, look at the section beginning of the section:electronics and emissions, if im not mistaken, that glove box is from a SC? lol)
tell me what you think
from:
http://www.overboost.com/story.asp?id=422
all the way to the bottom
(while ur looking at the article, look at the section beginning of the section:electronics and emissions, if im not mistaken, that glove box is from a SC? lol)
The thing that made me do it... was when i saw what it did to the Intake plenum connector.
07-28-06, 10:37 AM
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"In an internal combustion engine, a mixture of air and fuel is burned. When the mixture is tuned so as to consume every molecule of reactant (in this case fuel and oxygen) it is said to be "running at stoichiometry". When this burns, combustion temperatures reach a high enough level to burn some of the nitrogen in the air, yielding various oxides of nitrogen, the results of which can be seen over major cities such as Los Angeles, California in the summer in the form of brown clouds of smog."
i fail to see how circulating HOT exhaust gas into the intake will cool the air. about the only thing he had correct was that it is built in for emissions. it reduces emissions and thats it. i'm not sure how one could actually state hot exhaust gas actually cools the air better than no hot exhaust gas, that makes no sense. anything the nitrogen oxides do is washed out by the major increase in temeperature it brings. and dont forget, NOx is not the ONLY thing flowing through your exhaust. let's not forget carbon deposits and such.
i fail to see how circulating HOT exhaust gas into the intake will cool the air. about the only thing he had correct was that it is built in for emissions. it reduces emissions and thats it. i'm not sure how one could actually state hot exhaust gas actually cools the air better than no hot exhaust gas, that makes no sense. anything the nitrogen oxides do is washed out by the major increase in temeperature it brings. and dont forget, NOx is not the ONLY thing flowing through your exhaust. let's not forget carbon deposits and such.
07-28-06, 11:50 AM
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Originally Posted by jtucci
"In an internal combustion engine, a mixture of air and fuel is burned. When the mixture is tuned so as to consume every molecule of reactant (in this case fuel and oxygen) it is said to be "running at stoichiometry". When this burns, combustion temperatures reach a high enough level to burn some of the nitrogen in the air, yielding various oxides of nitrogen, the results of which can be seen over major cities such as Los Angeles, California in the summer in the form of brown clouds of smog."
i fail to see how circulating HOT exhaust gas into the intake will cool the air. about the only thing he had correct was that it is built in for emissions. it reduces emissions and thats it. i'm not sure how one could actually state hot exhaust gas actually cools the air better than no hot exhaust gas, that makes no sense. anything the nitrogen oxides do is washed out by the major increase in temeperature it brings. and dont forget, NOx is not the ONLY thing flowing through your exhaust. let's not forget carbon deposits and such.
i fail to see how circulating HOT exhaust gas into the intake will cool the air. about the only thing he had correct was that it is built in for emissions. it reduces emissions and thats it. i'm not sure how one could actually state hot exhaust gas actually cools the air better than no hot exhaust gas, that makes no sense. anything the nitrogen oxides do is washed out by the major increase in temeperature it brings. and dont forget, NOx is not the ONLY thing flowing through your exhaust. let's not forget carbon deposits and such.
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08-02-06, 04:02 PM
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Emissions fella's.....Does the world need more polution? I say the EGR is good for the masses but not so good for the hotrodder.....
I don't think you will get better gas mileage or gain horsepower by deleting, infact you may lose a few ponies...Why? Because the return gases from the EGR which recycles thru the intake actually cools it down so your intake feed actually becomes a bit cooler in temperature ...... Colder air is condensed and condensed air makes for more horsepower.... You do get grime buildup which sucks... I also would think that you would lose gas mileage as the volume flowing into the intake would be less with deleted egr so more fuel mix would have to fill that void...Not sure but it makes sense, but that is my reasoning in theory.......I could be wrong....
What I am wondering is if you do remove the EGR does the engine clean up by itself over time of all that grime buildup? My guess is it is permanent so the damage is already done....Anyone have any thoughts on that?
I don't think you will get better gas mileage or gain horsepower by deleting, infact you may lose a few ponies...Why? Because the return gases from the EGR which recycles thru the intake actually cools it down so your intake feed actually becomes a bit cooler in temperature ...... Colder air is condensed and condensed air makes for more horsepower.... You do get grime buildup which sucks... I also would think that you would lose gas mileage as the volume flowing into the intake would be less with deleted egr so more fuel mix would have to fill that void...Not sure but it makes sense, but that is my reasoning in theory.......I could be wrong....
What I am wondering is if you do remove the EGR does the engine clean up by itself over time of all that grime buildup? My guess is it is permanent so the damage is already done....Anyone have any thoughts on that?
08-02-06, 09:59 PM
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NOx is formed when combustion chamber temps approach and exceed 2500 degrees. An A/F mixture at or around 14.7:1 generates 2500 degree temps. In order to run at 14.7:1 and have a low NOx emission, a method of controlling NOx becomes necessary.
At cruise when engine power demand is low, exhaust is introduced into the cylinders, along with the air and fuel. This displaces some of the room the air and fuel normally would have taken up with non-flammable inert gas. Since there is no longer the same amount of air and fuel in the cylinder, the burn in the cylinder decreases in size, and temperatue decreases as well.
At idle, the engine is making minimum amount of power. If we add exhaust gas to dilute the mixture, that minimim power is further reduced, and stalling or a very rough idle will be the result.
A cold engine does not vaporize fuel as easily as a warm engine. An engine relies on fuel vapor to run. If we add exhaust gas to dilute the mixture, the amount of vaporized fuel in the cylinder decreases even further, and rough running or hesitation will result.
If we give the engine a full power command (WOT) we want just that, full power. If exhaust ggas were to be introduced to the cylinders during WOT, full power could not be achieved, so the mixure is not diluted with exhaust gas when the operator commands full power from the engine.
At cruise when engine power demand is low, exhaust is introduced into the cylinders, along with the air and fuel. This displaces some of the room the air and fuel normally would have taken up with non-flammable inert gas. Since there is no longer the same amount of air and fuel in the cylinder, the burn in the cylinder decreases in size, and temperatue decreases as well.
At idle, the engine is making minimum amount of power. If we add exhaust gas to dilute the mixture, that minimim power is further reduced, and stalling or a very rough idle will be the result.
A cold engine does not vaporize fuel as easily as a warm engine. An engine relies on fuel vapor to run. If we add exhaust gas to dilute the mixture, the amount of vaporized fuel in the cylinder decreases even further, and rough running or hesitation will result.
If we give the engine a full power command (WOT) we want just that, full power. If exhaust ggas were to be introduced to the cylinders during WOT, full power could not be achieved, so the mixure is not diluted with exhaust gas when the operator commands full power from the engine.
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