Inabj2

Well I too have noticed that my car feels much peppier when its not yet fully warmed up, but rather when its almost there but not quite. And also I know that coolant actually makes the car run a little hotter then it would if it was just water alone.

I Had problems with overheating when i raced, my 1990 nissan 240sx with perfect 50/50 coolant and water mix, especially since I live in arizona and it could be pretty hot on a sunny day. I switched to 2 parts water wetter and 6-8 parts water, and drove like that, (autoxed and many highway miles.) For roughly 7-8 months, and I had 0 problems while I drove it. The winters here are pretty mind and thus very rarely am I exposed to near freezing temperatures. (car felt more responsive but it could be my imagination.)

I was wondering if it would be safe to do the same with the sc300? From what I hear the water wetter has similar lubricating properties as coolant does. So is it a bad idea? I dont have any problems with overheating, Im just trying to lower the air intake tems slightly, and thus hoping to get that extra half of a free hp and response from my car. I just thought Id ask you guys before I end up making any grevious mistakes?

What do you guys think? Currently I have a leaking radiator so I will not be doing this until I have that problem fixed, Im thinking fluidyne.

TMaxxTim

As long as the water isn't boiling in your radiator, I don't think its a problem.

rscott

before you leave the coolant out completely, try a 70/30 mix of the toyota red coolant. Running 100% water would indeed run cooler, but only until your radiator cap/hose clamps cant hold the elevated pressure. at that point something is going to blow. When it does blow, youre going to have a massive surge of even more water boiling when the pressure is relieved. Youll quickly find yourself with an empty cooling system and a warped head. If it works out for you then but when you replace youre radiator id suggest you go with a beefier one with a hi pressure cap

got_trd

I use toyota coolant, water, and a bottle of water wetter

Inabj2

Right now I have a leak and it probably would be a bad idea to try this now.

So Im thinking if I get the fluidyne+ high pressure cap. (who do you suggest I should be ok right?

I only have the basic courses of chemistry done in college and didnt need any more chemistry credits so forgive me if my question sounds silly:

But why would the pressure be higher then normal? I always thought that boiling point temperature was dependant of pressure (like temp room water in a vacuum boils at room temp.). SO if the water wetter+water solution is cooler why would the pressure rise? Sorry if my question sounds again, stupid, but its been awhile, but in my oversimplified understanding isnt it higher temp = higher pressure?

hmm.

SCV8

Speaking of chemistry, there's this thing that happens to aluminum motors when you run water in them; they turn to mush, ie corrosion, so I'd just stick with the pure antifreeze.

The spark timing is upped a bit when the intake is cooler,before heat soaks into everything, makes the car nice to drive.

Inabj2

I thought that was the purpose of water wetter? Provide corrossion and rust protection( as well as better heat transfer properties, but I thought that was only applicable if you ran coolant, since water is the best known heat transfer substance available)? Although Id be using distilled water. Id rather avoid using coolant if possible, but just in case anywhere else I can obtain the red coolant or is that a toyota dealer item only?

All this annoying pondering from a busted stock radiator... so far Im thinking of getting a ... fluydine radiator, plus trd cap... and running 2 watter wetters plus rest water... (or one red coolant plus water wetter and rest water if necessary... :-( )

got_trd

I dont see why you want to stay away from coolant so much... If we didnt need it, they wouldnt make it

Inabj2

Main reasons are coolant is more slippery then oil (applicable if youre at an event and have had someone spilled the coolant all over the place), but biggest reason is that the heat capacity of coolant is much lower then that of water. And people that live in colder climates that are exposed to freezing temperatures do need coolant, I just dont think I need it, living in Phoenix Az.

Gabe M

We run water and water wetter only in our race bikes. They have always done fine with it.
-Gabe

rscott

remember coolant raises the boiling point of a liquid too.

large chemistry lesson coming up on boiling points. For those of you who dont care, skip the rest of my post...

okay so theres more than just pressure and boiling point you have to look
at (im a chem/biochem major )

first looking at just pressure and boiling points independent of
everything else:
Pressure is dependent on the temperature of the system. The higher your
temperature goes, the higher your pressure will be when there is no room
for a phase change (ie the radiator closed off with no air pockets.
Because there is no room to expand into when you heat it, it cant expand,
so pressure starts to build. Thats why i say you HAVE to have a high
pressure cap.

Next point. Boiling point as a function of pressure:
First think of a gas. lets say you have a huge cylinder of gas and you
compress it. Eventually the molecules will come so close together
without room to move that they will be forced into the liquid phase.
Same goes in the other direction. If you start with a liquid and expand
really fast then it will turn into a gas. Negative pressure above the
surface of the liquid will pull molecules into the empty space. Remember
that boiling is just that: liquid molecules going into the gas phase.

Tie those together: Boiling point as a function of temperature and
pressure:
Water at sea level boils at 100C: They say at sea level because this set
point was established as a standard. If you move away from sea level,
the airpressure changes and so will the boiling point. If you go back to
our cylinder example when we expanded the cylinder the negative pressure
was acting on the liquid to pull molecules out. If you add heat to it,
youll add energy to the molecules still in the liquid and those will
start to randomly move out of the water. Do this at a lower pressure and
your boiling point will move down since youll have the heat below exciting
the molecules and the pressure pulling them out. From there, youll have a
lower boiling point. If you increase the pressure youll have opposing
forces. The pressure above will want to put the molecules back into the
liquid and the heat will try to vaporize it. High pressure will raise
the boiling point.

Application:
Your radiator is closed held at constant volume. When you add heat from
the engine, internal pressure of the liquid will build and the
temperature will rise, but because those forces are opposing, the
molecules will remain in the liquid phase. Once you relieve the pressure
(like a hose blowing or removine the cap while hot, the liquid will
instantly boil because the pressure drops so were back at the low
pressure/high heat example. Water boils and your car goes to the yard.



lol so back to answering your question: The pressure will be from the
heat and the water at the boiling point but unable to vaporize. when you
add some sort of contaminant (ie coolant) you average the two boiling points depending on concentration and pure boiling points of the two components. This is why coolant is not only essential in cool climates but also in warm ones. when you reach the boiling point with no where to expand, pressure rises. when your pressure gets high enough, something is going to explode.

If you guys are running straight water and its working, then maybe its okay, but as far as safety goes, id run at least some coolant in there just for peace of mind. Water does have a great heat capacity, but once you hit that point where cooling or pressure just isnt sufficient to keep it from boiling, something is going to overheat/crack/pop.

Sorry for the long seemingly pointless post, but when you get me going, i get going. I can be cool and all, but im just a nerd at heart. have fun

T0ked

iTrader: (2)

You can't beat plain distilled water for heat transfer properties. The problems are the freezing and boiling points and metal corrosion (if you don't use distilled). That's where coolants come in. If you never have to worry about freezing and use distilled water, just plain h20 and water wetter should be fine. My friend had a mustang built just for the track. In the summer, he would run distilled water and water wetter (forgot what ratio, but a lot of those little bottles...) and his temps were alway fine. If youn can find good distilled water, you don't have to worry about corrosion either, but you usually can't. Water wetter is supposed to help with all the above, so I don't think there would be a problem. I've always used distilled water and coolant on my car.

rscott

oh yeah distilled water is a must also. Im still going to have to stand behind the 70/30 mix with a bottle of water wetter.

SCV8

That's a good point, I'm reasonably sure that the cruddy motors that I've seen didn't have the benefit of distilled water.