dunebuggy

Just throwing this topic out there in case any engine experts have any info and thoughts...

I've done a lot of reading in recent weeks about the engine used in the 200t NXs. A few times, I've seen mention of the fact that the engine is tuned somewhat for Economy. And that in fact, it will be capable of a higher Kw output.

Lexus plans to use this engine in other cars in future, thus it might be tuned differently.

Questions for engine experts:
1. Do you think the new engine has additional Kw "hiding" in there somewhere?

2. If yes, can this power be released either via aftermarket or any sort of Lexus-approved (service) tuning or adjustment?

I'm new to the notion of "hidden" power output.

I have read a lot of reviews about the car. Most are quite positive about the car's power and acceleration times of as high as 6.9 seconds for 0-100 for the F-Sport, most likely in Sport+ mode.

This is impressive to me, since it is even faster than the RAV 4 SX6 which had a 3.5L V6 engine that had so much power the car could barely control itself. It would do about 7.4seconds. If you ever have a chance to drive that particular RAV 4, try it because it's really punchy.

Some reviews state however that some competitors (we are talking about crossover vehicles with similar dimensions) are faster. I believe there are some BMW X3s that will do mid to low 6seconds.

Of course there is also the Porsche Macan which has a larger engine. But its worth mentioning that the Macan S Diesel only does 6.3 seconds from its 3.0litre V6, which is not far ahead of the 6.9 seconds of the NX 200t F-Sport. (upper Macans are in the 5 and 4 second range).

So I'm just curious as to whether Lexus took a slightly conservative tack with the setup of what, by all other accounts, is a great new engine that they developed for a long time.

Swacer

#1 - Lexus/Toyota is never going to release approved performance tuning. If they haven't for the IS-F, don't dream of it for the NX.

Now, to your question, every car is downtuned in order to assist with longer engine life. This has been done for a decade or more. They bog the engine down with obnoxious amounts of fuel in order to keep the car running cool, which does nothing more than kill hp and throttle response.

There is plenty of hp that is in the fuel mapping and A/F tables that could be gained. I would assume somewhere on the range of 15-20hp is available. However, toyota will make sure you can never get to it lol Thats actually one of the reasons I went to GM for my performance car. One of the few companies that thrive on the enthusiasts making the car as fast as you can.

Its also important to keep in mind this is a small 2.0L 4 cylinder, that is the major "performance" (I use performance lightly...) killer. In regards to your car pairings....

1. A diesel is all low end torque. A diesel with larger displacement and a turbo will beat a small displacement gas turbo anyday. Turbos love displacement for assistance.
2. A turbo when properly tuned will beat an NA engine simply due to spool up. Thats why the RAV4 is slower (well...throttle response, open loop tuning, and a lack of FI). I"m pretty sure you can take a nap by the time it reaches 60 at 7.4 seconds hahah

Nights

I think we'll see the 2L turbo is slightly different tunes, depending on where it's utilised, similar to how BMW offers multiple tunes of the 2L. So we may see slightly different numbers when it's in the RC200t, or the IS200t, or even the GS200t and the CT200t

Swacer

Of course they are tuned differently. Its a different car with a different drivetrain at a different weight with differently desired response.

Now also keep in mind, just because the displacement is the same, doesn't mean its the same engine. Consider the Chevy Silverado offers a 6.2L direct injection engine called the L86, while the Corvette also offers a 6.2L but its called the LT1. These are 2 completely different engines.

Also like my Camaro has a 6.2L, called the LS3.

corradoMR2

Lexus stated they will use the 2L Turbo in future Lexus products. Inside information states the IS will surely get it, highly likely in the MY 2016 which is expected to have 250-260 hp. The question is, whether the gains are software or hardware including exhaust, or a combination.

dunebuggy

Actually those V6 RAV 4 SX6s generate quite the bit of torque steer. Absolutely no napping is possible
Anyway, thanks very much for the breakdown Swacer. I'm entirely new to the notion of custom tuning + had read a lot about how great this new Lexus 2.0 Turbo is, along with some enthusiasts speculating about improvements.

Pity Lexus doesn't offer a more open tuning path like GM, or better still, their own upgrade facility. Wishful thinking on my part.
Thanks to everyone else for your comments also.

DB.

Nights

I don't think you quite got the gist of what I was saying. It's basically like how BMW offers two tunes of their 2L turbo engine in the 3 series here in Australia. A "base" version with 135 kW and 230 Nm which they put in the 320i, and an uprated (more aggressively tuned) version of the same 2L engine with 180 kW and 350 Nm in the 328i.

There's nothing to stop Lexus from offering the same thing in say the IS, CT, GS or RX. They could offer multiple versions of the same engine in the same vehicle line. They could even run a more hi-po version of the 2L in the "sportier" vehicles ie RC ala A45 AMG (would be awesome if it happened, and the NX Chief engineer has stated that he would like to do a similar type of model for the NX). You can easily get quite a bit of power from a 2L turbo these days and still have a reliable engine.

Of course, Lexus may just offer the same 2L variant across the board. Only time will tell.

Swacer

Torque steer isn't a sign of speed though, its a sign of poor front end geometry and weight distribution. Thats the only thing I didn't like about the NX is the FWD bias. I wish it was RWD bias.

Swacer

usually, what this means is they overly detuned the first engine. But when your'e gaining almost 50hp, thats more than just tuning, that is usually part replacements. I would see if there was a different cam or different head on that car. Tuning a turbo won't get you that kind of hp bump by itself.

LexBob2

Ford is into turbocharged engines in a big way these days. They offer a 2.0t (240hp/270ft lb.) and a 2.3t (285hp/305ft lb.) for their engine options in the MKC as well as other models. Just a different way to offer different power levels from their 4 cylinder engines.

Swacer

ugh, ecoboost. Its almost nauseating how much they are shoving it into things. They ruined the Raptor for me the moment they took the 6.2L out and put an ecoboosted 6. I'm sorry, but no exhaust is going to save the sound of it driving down the road.

Furthermore, no one buys a raptor and counts mpgs. So if they are trying to brag about increased gas mileage, tis the wrong demographic to convince. Furthermore, by decreasing the displacement, and putting a turbo on, they only gained 40hp over the previous raptor. thats a joke. You can gain 40 hp from an exhaust, headers, and intake. Plus, the supercharged applications for that motor were great.

Large step back for Ford.

01LEXPL

iTrader: (10)

Give it some time OP. I'm sure that companies like COBB already have their eye on this motor for the near future.

Even with off the shelf, safe tunes, these cars will be able to crank out more power for reasonable money. Their accesports currently sell for 650$, basically a tuner that you keep in the car with a nice screen that can display any and all vitals of the vehicle.

100% agreed. But, one can argue that the Raptor is basically a "city slicker" poseur truck that sees more tire shine than dunes lol

The truck guys that really go mudding usually build an older toy, not many willing to spend 70k$ on a bush truck!

I'm not saying people don't drive them hard, but probably not as hard as they were meant to be driven when they first came out [then again, the bending frame when taking it off of "approved" jumps didn't help their marketing].

Not to mention its kind of weird hearing a full size [talking F150] spooling when having some fun with it!

airchomper

There isn't a doubt in my mind that the engine can make more power.

There's probably only about an extra 15 horsepower in the NX configuration. Toyota seems to select a power output, and efficiency curve and work backwards - figuring out the most simple exhaust and intake to support their performance goals.

A ton of supporting parts (injectors, fuel pump, oil pump, ect.) probably can't support much higher power levels either.

If you could get a free flowing exhaust system and just slap a pod air filter on smoothbore, tapered intake tract, I'd bet the engine could make 300 horsepower.

But the fundamental engine is probably good for 450 - 500 horsepower. It'd just need some massaging to get there.

I haven't seen any really good technical analysis on the engine, but I have heard some very knowledgable people say that the *AR engine series has a very stout design. Some tuners even say it has a greater power potential than the old *MZ V6s.

We probably wont see much after market support for the engine, however. The VVT system is probably too complex to reverse engineer on an after market budget. You'd need some factory documentation to figure out how it works and what to consider when you work with it.

Swacer

450-500hp? LMAO not with the stock bottom end you won't.

Furthermore, to get to that range, an oil pump, and injectors is minuscule in comparison the work that ACTUALLY needs to be done. to make that kind of power, you'll need a twin turbo setup easily. To do the setup right, you're looking at $10k or more just in parts alone. With that kinda of power, now your tranny is worthless and will need replaced, your drive train is junk and underrated now. Your axels are worthless and on borrowed time, and this is all before hte ECU work that is required.

For the price it would take to get that car to 500hp, you may as well buy a real sports car. Keep in mind, no one cares how faster your family hauler is. Exception to this is maybe a CTS-V wagon.

To further dissect....a full exhaust system, and an intake will NOT give you 70hp. Furthermore, without any tuning ability, you gain nothing.

Where are you coming up with these ghost numbers?

dunebuggy

As much as I do appreciate your input in this thread, why are your responses combative? Everybody just adds their thoughts. This is just a discussion. Personally, I'm happy to read all opinions, and if someone's wrong, then it's interesting to hear why. But it's no fun if we descend into ridicule.

airchomper wrote "the fundamental engine is probably good for 450 - 500 horsepower"

The words "fundamental engine" seemed to refer to the fundamental engine. Not the car as a whole.

If no-one cares about the speed of a Crossover vehicle, then why are there sub-5 second 0-100 Crossovers on the market already? Why do so many sportscar makers have crossovers? Why does the Porsche Cayenne account for most Porsche sales? Why does the Lamborghini Urus project exist?

Further, why would anyone need to "keep in mind" what other people think about the speed of the car they drive? Is that what you do?

DB