The 2 litre Turbo - more KW hidden inside?
02-23-15, 03:46 PM
#16
Lexus Test Driver
As much as I do appreciate your input in this thread, why are your responses combative? Everybody just adds their thoughts. This is just a discussion. Personally, I'm happy to read all opinions, and if someone's wrong, then it's interesting to hear why. But it's no fun if we descend into ridicule.
airchomper wrote "the fundamental engine is probably good for 450 - 500 horsepower"
The words "fundamental engine" seemed to refer to the fundamental engine. Not the car as a whole.
If no-one cares about the speed of a Crossover vehicle, then why are there sub-5 second 0-100 Crossovers on the market already? Why do so many sportscar makers have crossovers? Why does the Porsche Cayenne account for most Porsche sales? Why does the Lamborghini Urus project exist?
Further, why would anyone need to "keep in mind" what other people think about the speed of the car they drive? Is that what you do?
DB
airchomper wrote "the fundamental engine is probably good for 450 - 500 horsepower"
The words "fundamental engine" seemed to refer to the fundamental engine. Not the car as a whole.
If no-one cares about the speed of a Crossover vehicle, then why are there sub-5 second 0-100 Crossovers on the market already? Why do so many sportscar makers have crossovers? Why does the Porsche Cayenne account for most Porsche sales? Why does the Lamborghini Urus project exist?
Further, why would anyone need to "keep in mind" what other people think about the speed of the car they drive? Is that what you do?
DB
As for the Porsche, it's a large percentage of the sales because people are tired of Porsche cars using the same fascia over and over and over. Lack of innovation
02-24-15, 06:34 AM
#17
dunebuggy, it is simply Swacer's character to tell people that their numbers are junk, that their Hyundais will be crap and to generally be a bit on the unpleasant side. Forgive him, as I suspect he can't help it.
02-24-15, 07:58 AM
#18
Pole Position
At the risk of wrestling with a pig in mud (and then finding out that the pig might enjoy it)
My ideas aren't conclusive, but I'm not a crack pot.
Here are my thoughts: Every turbo engine from Toyota is unbelievably stout. Even their normally aspirated engines are stout. The bottom end of a 2AR uses really similar components to the *UZ and *JZ engines and those make massive power. I couldn't fathom that Toyota/Lexus would go to the trouble of developing a new engine with a ton of new tooling and deploy their newest valve train on it just to make it weak and unreliable.
I think 500-600 horsepower is a reasonable estimate based on flow rates we know toyota can achieve through the valves on an 86 mm bore. And these VVTI-iw heads appear to flow really well.
An estimate of 500-600 horsepower doesn't seem outlandish if you just want to estimate the max power. I've seen some dyno-queen motorcycles lay down that much power with half the displacement. I've seen a 450 horsepower GSXR1000 and a 750 horsepower GSXR1300, on functionally stock engines. The 750 horsepower GSXR1300 only lasts a few dyno pulls, but it makes 750 horsepower from a 1.3 liter engine basically as it left the factory.
If you buy top notch internals, you can get to the same 750 horsepower threshold more reliably. But this is the nature of turbo engines - you can make as much power as you can flow air and fuel into the head, and you can make that power as long as the bottom end holds up.
Everything else is a trade-off.
So what's your objection? That there's no way you the engine can flow the power - that's wrong. The flow rates on these heads are great. And although no one outside of Toyota and their suppliers know how 'beefy' this engine is, the preponderance of evidence suggests that it's very durable. I'd need to see some compelling evidence to convince me that this new engine, the first turbo charged engine in a Lexus ever, was made with a lower safety factory than any Toyota engine since the 7M.
My ideas aren't conclusive, but I'm not a crack pot.
Here are my thoughts: Every turbo engine from Toyota is unbelievably stout. Even their normally aspirated engines are stout. The bottom end of a 2AR uses really similar components to the *UZ and *JZ engines and those make massive power. I couldn't fathom that Toyota/Lexus would go to the trouble of developing a new engine with a ton of new tooling and deploy their newest valve train on it just to make it weak and unreliable.
I think 500-600 horsepower is a reasonable estimate based on flow rates we know toyota can achieve through the valves on an 86 mm bore. And these VVTI-iw heads appear to flow really well.
An estimate of 500-600 horsepower doesn't seem outlandish if you just want to estimate the max power. I've seen some dyno-queen motorcycles lay down that much power with half the displacement. I've seen a 450 horsepower GSXR1000 and a 750 horsepower GSXR1300, on functionally stock engines. The 750 horsepower GSXR1300 only lasts a few dyno pulls, but it makes 750 horsepower from a 1.3 liter engine basically as it left the factory.
If you buy top notch internals, you can get to the same 750 horsepower threshold more reliably. But this is the nature of turbo engines - you can make as much power as you can flow air and fuel into the head, and you can make that power as long as the bottom end holds up.
Everything else is a trade-off.
So what's your objection? That there's no way you the engine can flow the power - that's wrong. The flow rates on these heads are great. And although no one outside of Toyota and their suppliers know how 'beefy' this engine is, the preponderance of evidence suggests that it's very durable. I'd need to see some compelling evidence to convince me that this new engine, the first turbo charged engine in a Lexus ever, was made with a lower safety factory than any Toyota engine since the 7M.
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