My new dilemma: NX Vs. ES
03-03-16, 11:46 PM
#1
Driver
Thread Starter
My new dilemma: NX Vs. ES
So back on Valentines Day on the way to dinner, I had to do a 3 point turn. It was snowing, and it was a very odd slippery slushy snow here that night. I was coming out of the turn at I say 10mph, (my passenger said probably less than that) and the truck began to slide and started to tip! It quickly caught itself and came fully back on to solid ground. (I understand that I have the OEM Yokohama all seasons on there, and not Blizzaks, but still. All the safety nannies and AWD, and the thing slides and almost tips at low speed?!?!)
That coupled with radio freezes and restarts prompted a trip to the dealer on Wednesday. They were shocked, and couldn't find anything wrong with it. They were aware of the radio issues in the new IS, but haven't heard about it in the NX yet. They called Lexus, and are awaiting a resolution. I showed them the thread from here about the software update, but seeing as mine was built in September, it already had the 16.8 update.... yadda yadda. So since they felt bad that I've been having these issues, they've offered to take back my NX, and put me in an ES below invoice because they're low on CPO cars, and only have 2 used NX's anyway. Neither of which are loaded up like mine.
So my dilemma; do I take a fully loaded 16ESh with Ultra Luxury below invoice, and ditch the 15NX, (probably lowering my payment too) or keep my NX and hope for the best? I barely ever use the NX now because I can't trust it in bad weather, and I have been using my current ES more as a result of all of this.
I understand it's a matter of preference at this point, I'm just curious what my fellow Lexusphiles would do in this same situation?
That coupled with radio freezes and restarts prompted a trip to the dealer on Wednesday. They were shocked, and couldn't find anything wrong with it. They were aware of the radio issues in the new IS, but haven't heard about it in the NX yet. They called Lexus, and are awaiting a resolution. I showed them the thread from here about the software update, but seeing as mine was built in September, it already had the 16.8 update.... yadda yadda. So since they felt bad that I've been having these issues, they've offered to take back my NX, and put me in an ES below invoice because they're low on CPO cars, and only have 2 used NX's anyway. Neither of which are loaded up like mine.
So my dilemma; do I take a fully loaded 16ESh with Ultra Luxury below invoice, and ditch the 15NX, (probably lowering my payment too) or keep my NX and hope for the best? I barely ever use the NX now because I can't trust it in bad weather, and I have been using my current ES more as a result of all of this.
I understand it's a matter of preference at this point, I'm just curious what my fellow Lexusphiles would do in this same situation?
03-04-16, 04:37 AM
#2
Pole Position
Wow. What a loaded question. That depends so much on what you are going after as each model has a very different mission. It's a very subjective decision at this point based on your needs and preferences. We love our ES. And are just coming to really know the NX but like it so far. We were going after something with a different ride height, hauling capacity and all-weather performance when we decided on an SUV (at the time we purchased the RX). That desire has not changed for us, even though the reality is we only average perhaps 5 slick days per year in our region.
The ES definitely has the quieter and more serene cabin with a much smoother ride. That is especially true with the hybrid model. The ES, and especially the hybrid version, has much more limited hauling capacity - but it isn't like the NX has a ton of cargo space.
At this point, you know more about the NX than I, but you would certainly enjoy this generation of ESh. If you are afraid of the NX and consequently not driving it, then it is just sitting around and depreciating. We recently traded out of an RX that was three years old and only had 5300 miles on it. We weren't driving it much for different reasons but ended up losing a ton on depreciation while the car sat around decorating the inside of the garage.
It sounds like you have likely have a preference and may be trying to rationalize your decision. I don't know the NX well enough yet to try and convince you to stay put, but you can't go wrong with the ESh. If I had to pick only one car that I could have, it would probably be the ES (at least at this point). One final point to consider, the ES has higher door sills and many of our passengers struggle getting in and out of it, thus dragging their feet across the sill. Be sure you consider ingress/egress of both cars and how they compare to the verticle stature of the regular riders including yourself.
Good luck with your decision. From my perspective, you cannot go wrong with either car.
The ES definitely has the quieter and more serene cabin with a much smoother ride. That is especially true with the hybrid model. The ES, and especially the hybrid version, has much more limited hauling capacity - but it isn't like the NX has a ton of cargo space.
At this point, you know more about the NX than I, but you would certainly enjoy this generation of ESh. If you are afraid of the NX and consequently not driving it, then it is just sitting around and depreciating. We recently traded out of an RX that was three years old and only had 5300 miles on it. We weren't driving it much for different reasons but ended up losing a ton on depreciation while the car sat around decorating the inside of the garage.
It sounds like you have likely have a preference and may be trying to rationalize your decision. I don't know the NX well enough yet to try and convince you to stay put, but you can't go wrong with the ESh. If I had to pick only one car that I could have, it would probably be the ES (at least at this point). One final point to consider, the ES has higher door sills and many of our passengers struggle getting in and out of it, thus dragging their feet across the sill. Be sure you consider ingress/egress of both cars and how they compare to the verticle stature of the regular riders including yourself.
Good luck with your decision. From my perspective, you cannot go wrong with either car.
03-04-16, 04:55 AM
#3
Lexus Test Driver
In regards to the handling of the vehicle in the snow, if you don't have the proper tires for the conditions, your handling is going to be terrible. There is no way to sugar coat that. however, I will agree with you that the OEM all seasons are not great, but I haven't had an issue driving in 4-5" of snow and on ice. I find myself putting the car into M and paddle shifting to keep the gearing in my control, but its not bad. As for sliding and tipping, you do realize that NO tire will give you traction on ice, right? Your driving skills must improve to compensate for ice, no tire will save you. As for the tipping, there is plenty of body roll with this car, I tend to believe there was no true rolling here but rather a lot of body weight transfer.
For all the screen issues I've had with my NX, I am yet to have an issue with the radio. However, electrical gremlins are the most miserable to chase down. Personally, I would request that your dealer do you a favor and replace the screen. If the issue continues, then I would pursue something else because the issue is something deeper.
For all the screen issues I've had with my NX, I am yet to have an issue with the radio. However, electrical gremlins are the most miserable to chase down. Personally, I would request that your dealer do you a favor and replace the screen. If the issue continues, then I would pursue something else because the issue is something deeper.
03-04-16, 05:23 AM
#4
Lexus Champion
Not discrediting what you experienced, but I find it difficult to believe the car came close to tipping unless it came in contact with curb sideways at a moderate speed or if you were tilted at a fairly severe angle. Sliding alone shouldn't cause the car to nearly flip. Just admit it, you were trying to pop a wheelie. 
03-04-16, 05:42 AM
#5
Driver
Thread Starter
Ha, I wish! I think I would have needed the F-Sport for that though
I totally agree with you. However I've been driving in Chicago with all season for about 20 years now, and have never experienced this. The closest was my 85 Cadillac Fleetwood. That thing was frightening no matter what conditions it was in. Ha. I do like your idea of popping it into M, I never thought about that! Thank you. Also that night in particular, the plows were out and salting, and "maybe" 1 inch on the ground, tops. No ice, just odd slippery/slushy mess of snow. It was a freak storm, and I'm chocking it up to that, seeing as I've never had a problem in the NX before that, and I've only had it this winter... As for the radio, it's not the screen like everyone else on here, it's the actual radio. It'll restart itself randomly, not respond to the remote touch, get hyper sensitive out of nowhere, not recognize BT streaming, iPhone via USB, randomly try to switch to Pandora or other Enform apps... It's nuts. Like you said, Gremlins 
Absolutely, and that's mainly why I put it as a "What would you do" sort of question. I got rid of my RX for a similar reason to yours, I just wasn't using it to its full potential. I never hauled anything large in it, I never towed anything, etc. I have used the NX to carry furniture, TV's, and such. That's why I chose it, seeing as I already have a sedan too. Now that the fiance has the Tiguan, I don't have to have a CUV necessarily. So it's become a really tough call on what road to take here. I've had mine for just shy of 4 months, and I wanted to wait until spring to make up my mind. I've been really really happy with it until the last few weeks when all of this started happening. Seeing as we're most likely moving to Florida soon, I don't need the AWD, or have to worry about snow for much longer... But I also feel like having two ES's is overkill and pointless. I'm at a crappy crossroads lol
Absolutely, and that's mainly why I put it as a "What would you do" sort of question. I got rid of my RX for a similar reason to yours, I just wasn't using it to its full potential. I never hauled anything large in it, I never towed anything, etc. I have used the NX to carry furniture, TV's, and such. That's why I chose it, seeing as I already have a sedan too. Now that the fiance has the Tiguan, I don't have to have a CUV necessarily. So it's become a really tough call on what road to take here. I've had mine for just shy of 4 months, and I wanted to wait until spring to make up my mind. I've been really really happy with it until the last few weeks when all of this started happening. Seeing as we're most likely moving to Florida soon, I don't need the AWD, or have to worry about snow for much longer... But I also feel like having two ES's is overkill and pointless. I'm at a crappy crossroads lol
03-04-16, 05:44 AM
#6
The ES certainly is not going to be any better in snow with all season tires. And no way the car, either one is going to tip over without hitting something at a decent speed. Basically you can drive at 75 mph down an open, flat road and turn the steering wheel hard to the side and the car will skid all over, but not flip
03-04-16, 05:47 AM
#7
Lexus Test Driver
How many SUVs have you had prior to the NX? If this is the first you've had with a higher CoG, that is probably a huge reason for your discomfort.
And if you think you won't be comfortable with it moving forward, but want the utility, why don't you dump the NX and go for a hatchback? You could get a Mazda 3 hatch, a Honda Crosstour, or if you want to stick with Lexus go with a CT200h. That way you maintain a lot of the storage space, but you're closer to the ground and closer to what you've always known.
And if you think you won't be comfortable with it moving forward, but want the utility, why don't you dump the NX and go for a hatchback? You could get a Mazda 3 hatch, a Honda Crosstour, or if you want to stick with Lexus go with a CT200h. That way you maintain a lot of the storage space, but you're closer to the ground and closer to what you've always known.
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03-04-16, 05:50 AM
#8
Driver
Thread Starter
The hardest part is trying to describe this.
So on this 3 point turn: I made a left into a driveway and straightened out. Part 2, reversed into the street. Part 3, had the wheel to the left and began to accelerate that's when then instantly it started to slide about 2-3 feet. Gas not mashed, because it was a residential street in bad weather, and I don't do that stuff anyway. That's when it started to list about 5-10 degrees to the right, then quickly snapped back to level. I thought it was my imagination until I looked at the look of horror on my fiances face, as we both realized that just really happened. I'm sure if I had the 300h, it wouldn't have happened, because the battery and extra motor weight the bottom.
As for the ES in snow, you have no idea! I have Goodyear comfortred assurances on mine, and she will pile drive through snow like it was a 4x4 on snow tires. The low center of gravity with trac control really shine in the ES for some crazy reason... I don't understand it myself
So on this 3 point turn: I made a left into a driveway and straightened out. Part 2, reversed into the street. Part 3, had the wheel to the left and began to accelerate that's when then instantly it started to slide about 2-3 feet. Gas not mashed, because it was a residential street in bad weather, and I don't do that stuff anyway. That's when it started to list about 5-10 degrees to the right, then quickly snapped back to level. I thought it was my imagination until I looked at the look of horror on my fiances face, as we both realized that just really happened. I'm sure if I had the 300h, it wouldn't have happened, because the battery and extra motor weight the bottom.
As for the ES in snow, you have no idea! I have Goodyear comfortred assurances on mine, and she will pile drive through snow like it was a 4x4 on snow tires. The low center of gravity with trac control really shine in the ES for some crazy reason... I don't understand it myself
03-04-16, 06:01 AM
#9
Driver
Thread Starter
How many SUVs have you had prior to the NX? If this is the first you've had with a higher CoG, that is probably a huge reason for your discomfort.
And if you think you won't be comfortable with it moving forward, but want the utility, why don't you dump the NX and go for a hatchback? You could get a Mazda 3 hatch, a Honda Crosstour, or if you want to stick with Lexus go with a CT200h. That way you maintain a lot of the storage space, but you're closer to the ground and closer to what you've always known.
And if you think you won't be comfortable with it moving forward, but want the utility, why don't you dump the NX and go for a hatchback? You could get a Mazda 3 hatch, a Honda Crosstour, or if you want to stick with Lexus go with a CT200h. That way you maintain a lot of the storage space, but you're closer to the ground and closer to what you've always known.
03-04-16, 06:07 AM
#10
Lexus Test Driver
Ah ok, then that reasoning won't work lol
As for Xenon and LED snob, that can be solved with ANY car. My 4Runner that will be arriving next week has halogen projectors. The stock bulbs were absolutely terrible in comparison to the NX. However, I already have a retrofit HID kit prepared (and retro only means putting the HID in, and attaching a ballast somewhere in the engine compartment...easy stuff) and LED fog lights that are significantly brighter than the halogen fogs it comes with. These will produce MORE light than the NX with a cheaper reliability factor.
Phillips also makes LED headlight bulbs that go right into your halogen projector that will produce a similar light.
So you can make anything work, so don't make your decision on a car solely based on what the OEM headlights are.
Plus, if you go aftermarket, its cheaper to replace. When the LEDs start to fail on the NX, I really don't want to imagine the cost to replace that headlight. For the 4Runner, if a HID dies, $40 later I'm back up and running. Just my 2 cents.
As for Xenon and LED snob, that can be solved with ANY car. My 4Runner that will be arriving next week has halogen projectors. The stock bulbs were absolutely terrible in comparison to the NX. However, I already have a retrofit HID kit prepared (and retro only means putting the HID in, and attaching a ballast somewhere in the engine compartment...easy stuff) and LED fog lights that are significantly brighter than the halogen fogs it comes with. These will produce MORE light than the NX with a cheaper reliability factor.
Phillips also makes LED headlight bulbs that go right into your halogen projector that will produce a similar light.
So you can make anything work, so don't make your decision on a car solely based on what the OEM headlights are.
Plus, if you go aftermarket, its cheaper to replace. When the LEDs start to fail on the NX, I really don't want to imagine the cost to replace that headlight. For the 4Runner, if a HID dies, $40 later I'm back up and running. Just my 2 cents.
03-04-16, 06:12 AM
#11
Driver
Thread Starter
I just bought a set of aftermarket LED's for the Tiguan, so if the light output is where I want to be when we get them, I might just do that. The new ES comes with Bi-Level LED's now though. So if I go the ES route, that won't be an issue. Won't be the triples that I have on the NX, but close enough.
And I can't believe you're still waiting for your 4runner!!! I feel like I saw you say it was shipped out like a month ago. That's nuts :/
03-04-16, 06:18 AM
#12
Lexus Test Driver
Hahaha I know! My finace turned to me with that "really?!" look when I turned on the lights in the CT. I was trying to rationalize it when I saw the car, then the lights instantly made me turn it off and give the key back to the salesman. Isn't that terrible?! I know, I know....
I just bought a set of aftermarket LED's for the Tiguan, so if the light output is where I want to be when we get them, I might just do that. The new ES comes with Bi-Level LED's now though. So if I go the ES route, that won't be an issue. Won't be the triples that I have on the NX, but close enough.
And I can't believe you're still waiting for your 4runner!!! I feel like I saw you say it was shipped out like a month ago. That's nuts :/
I just bought a set of aftermarket LED's for the Tiguan, so if the light output is where I want to be when we get them, I might just do that. The new ES comes with Bi-Level LED's now though. So if I go the ES route, that won't be an issue. Won't be the triples that I have on the NX, but close enough.
And I can't believe you're still waiting for your 4runner!!! I feel like I saw you say it was shipped out like a month ago. That's nuts :/
One thing to keep in mind is to check the lumen output of the LEDs. Phillips says that their LED headlight bulbs produce about the same as a halogen, just a whiter light and longer life. I'm sure you looked at that, so you know what I mean. Due to that is why I went with HIDs in the headlights instead of the LEDs. I drive a lot of back roads to work each day, so I need as much light as possible.
And yup, ordered it at the end of December, but it didnt' get a build date until February. Really though, this is right on par, it takes 1 month to get from Japan to New Jersey (The NX took the same amount of time to arrive). Its scheduled to make port on Sunday. Then up to 7 days to get to PA, then a day for rust coating, then signing for it hopefully the 15th. Bra and tint the 16th lol
03-04-16, 06:19 AM
#13
If your going to be dealing with Snow and Ice, a real AWD vehicle may be a better choice. Something like the Subaru Outback perhaps? AWD all the time and can send a lot of power to any corner
If you can swing it, go for it. If not, odds are the incident won't repeat itself.
03-04-16, 06:24 AM
#15
Driver
Thread Starter
Well, like I said before, I won't need AWD for much longer (hopefully.) But I don't think I could ever stomach a Subaru again, personally. I've had one. It was alright. But who the hell wants just alright haha!
LexBob, Not at all! That's actually why I bought the NX. I thought I would keep it for 5-7yrs and then get rid of it. It was also not-so-discreetly made clear to me by my loved ones, that I shouldn't get ANOTHER car anytime soon :P I normally get bored and buy and flip often.
LexBob, Not at all! That's actually why I bought the NX. I thought I would keep it for 5-7yrs and then get rid of it. It was also not-so-discreetly made clear to me by my loved ones, that I shouldn't get ANOTHER car anytime soon :P I normally get bored and buy and flip often.