Final Review - Thanks to NX Owners
07-06-15, 11:25 AM
#1
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Thread Starter
Final Review - Thanks to NX Owners
Hey, I know this is not a huge community here but wanted to say thanks for feedback on the NX and I have forwarded it on to my reps and the review. Initial Thread: https://www.clublexus.com/forums/nx-...to-review.html Here is the final video review:
Written Article: http://www.savagegeese.com/reviews/2...nx200t-f-sport Final Notes: First off, this is a good vehicle, and very good driving dynamics. There are some objective elements here but we did our best to cover the issues noted on the forums and some of the things we had. I hope we can see continual improvements on this platform, and one of the best ways is to continue being active in the community and sharing feedback, issues with everyone it's important.
07-06-15, 02:42 PM
#4
Well done and seemingly all inclusive review. As with most reviews, this is only your opinion...and, as such, I disagree with your conclusion. First, I love the look of the F Sport front end. I realize it's a love it or hate it type of look. I'm in the first group. Second, I find the driving dynamics over the rough stuff great!! I have no issues with it other than, yes, the sport mode makes odd decisions with the gear changes. Third, I have become used to the RTI and the software. It's not great (Jarvis would be ideal), but its not bad and only gets better with use. Fourth, the interior space for luggage is superior to any sedan in the same size range.
Again, as with any review, its only someone's opinion. I understand...and respectfully disagree with yours.
Oh, and I like the analog clock!
Again, as with any review, its only someone's opinion. I understand...and respectfully disagree with yours.
Oh, and I like the analog clock!
07-06-15, 03:12 PM
#5
Driver School Candidate
Thread Starter
Well done and seemingly all inclusive review. As with most reviews, this is only your opinion...and, as such, I disagree with your conclusion. First, I love the look of the F Sport front end. I realize it's a love it or hate it type of look. I'm in the first group. Second, I find the driving dynamics over the rough stuff great!! I have no issues with it other than, yes, the sport mode makes odd decisions with the gear changes. Third, I have become used to the RTI and the software. It's not great (Jarvis would be ideal), but its not bad and only gets better with use. Fourth, the interior space for luggage is superior to any sedan in the same size range.
Again, as with any review, its only someone's opinion. I understand...and respectfully disagree with yours.
Oh, and I like the analog clock!
Again, as with any review, its only someone's opinion. I understand...and respectfully disagree with yours.
Oh, and I like the analog clock!
And the big one what is it like compared to everything else. But overall it's extremely hard to find a balance but as always really appreciate your feedback, not only that being logical about it too!
07-06-15, 04:26 PM
#6
Lexus Test Driver
Yeah, I agree with others here, some of your conclusions are not supported by owner's experience posted here and by facts and figures. If you are going to compare with other makes and model then at least provide the footnotes to support your statement. No issues with negative feedback, just back it up.
You did a good job on the 3IS review, so I expected something to that calibre, but this one misses the mark.
Oh, one more thing, your opening post mention that there are some objective elements, but your article fails to provide those elements as they don't include the facts and figures for that, therefore, the entire review is subjective. Writing school 101.
You did a good job on the 3IS review, so I expected something to that calibre, but this one misses the mark.
Oh, one more thing, your opening post mention that there are some objective elements, but your article fails to provide those elements as they don't include the facts and figures for that, therefore, the entire review is subjective. Writing school 101.
Last edited by My0gr81; 07-06-15 at 04:33 PM.
07-06-15, 05:19 PM
#7
Driver School Candidate
Thread Starter
Yeah, I agree with others here, some of your conclusions are not supported by owner's experience posted here and by facts and figures. If you are going to compare with other makes and model then at least provide the footnotes to support your statement. No issues with negative feedback, just back it up.
You did a good job on the 3IS review, so I expected something to that calibre, but this one misses the mark.
Oh, one more thing, your opening post mention that there are some objective elements, but your article fails to provide those elements as they don't include the facts and figures for that, therefore, the entire review is subjective. Writing school 101.
You did a good job on the 3IS review, so I expected something to that calibre, but this one misses the mark.
Oh, one more thing, your opening post mention that there are some objective elements, but your article fails to provide those elements as they don't include the facts and figures for that, therefore, the entire review is subjective. Writing school 101.
You are mostly right. Not even going to argue. Here are the three most troubling things regardless of segement and related to F sport.
1. With seats up less cargo capacity than Mazda3 hatch. This is an SUV right?
2. Rav4 suspension, no doublewishbone front and no attempt at underbody aero.
3. For price and utility a rav4 , crv and cx5 make more sense in almost every regard except interior. As much as I like the 4 banger. Its a 4 banger.
All of this related to the 45k as tested Fsport.
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07-06-15, 06:11 PM
#8
See, here again, I've got to disagree. Having traded in a CX-5 for the NX, except for rear cargo space, nothing else on a CX-5 compares to this Lexus. With 3 years of ownership of a CX-5, I can say this some authority. Essentially, I paid $15K more for this NX over the Mazda and I feel like I got my $15K worth of fit, finish and premium materials over the Mazda. Mazda's engine power is deplorable, particularly in the first model year run!
Last edited by D4V1D; 07-07-15 at 03:57 AM.
07-06-15, 06:12 PM
#9
First, I would like to say I do not believe that Lexus over did the front. Why not make it different..to me, it is art work. It doesn't need to look like other SUV's. That's what makes it special. That's what made me want it.....it is different. Most all SUV's these days look the same !
Second... I don't think you gave enough credit to the smooth and quiet ride that the NX has on normal and highway roads. Sure, some choppy to the ride on rough surfaces, but not nearly as much as others in it's class. There is no way you can think that this is a Rav4 ride..the Rav4 is much worse and much more noise level on all surfaces. I also test drove a CX5, no way was it as quiet , nor did it ride as smooth.
You gave your opinion, but I disagree with most of what you said. That is mine......as NX owners, we didn't pay the big bucks to drive a Rav4, and there is a big difference in them. I wish Lexus had never mentioned the fact that the NX was built on the same frame, so everybody can call it a glorified Rav4.
Second... I don't think you gave enough credit to the smooth and quiet ride that the NX has on normal and highway roads. Sure, some choppy to the ride on rough surfaces, but not nearly as much as others in it's class. There is no way you can think that this is a Rav4 ride..the Rav4 is much worse and much more noise level on all surfaces. I also test drove a CX5, no way was it as quiet , nor did it ride as smooth.
You gave your opinion, but I disagree with most of what you said. That is mine......as NX owners, we didn't pay the big bucks to drive a Rav4, and there is a big difference in them. I wish Lexus had never mentioned the fact that the NX was built on the same frame, so everybody can call it a glorified Rav4.
07-06-15, 08:21 PM
#10
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You are mostly right. Not even going to argue. Here are the three most troubling things regardless of segement and related to F sport.
1. With seats up less cargo capacity than Mazda3 hatch. This is an SUV right?
2. Rav4 suspension, no doublewishbone front and no attempt at underbody aero.
3. For price and utility a rav4 , crv and cx5 make more sense in almost every regard except interior. As much as I like the 4 banger. Its a 4 banger.
All of this related to the 45k as tested Fsport.
1. With seats up less cargo capacity than Mazda3 hatch. This is an SUV right?
2. Rav4 suspension, no doublewishbone front and no attempt at underbody aero.
3. For price and utility a rav4 , crv and cx5 make more sense in almost every regard except interior. As much as I like the 4 banger. Its a 4 banger.
All of this related to the 45k as tested Fsport.
2. Does the RAV4 have an Adaptive Variable Suspension? Didn't think so. At least mention that it is available on the F-Sport in most countries. To do a thorough review you should have at least made the short trip across the border to Canada and tested one with this feature to compare the two.
3. It's a turbo 4 banger. A lot of people prefer this to a V6, including myself.
I also like the F-sport grill. To me I find it looks aggressive and masculine.
07-06-15, 08:49 PM
#11
The pursuit of F
You are mostly right. Not even going to argue. Here are the three most troubling things regardless of segement and related to F sport.
1. With seats up less cargo capacity than Mazda3 hatch. This is an SUV right?
2. Rav4 suspension, no doublewishbone front and no attempt at underbody aero.
3. For price and utility a rav4 , crv and cx5 make more sense in almost every regard except interior. As much as I like the 4 banger. Its a 4 banger.
All of this related to the 45k as tested Fsport.
1. With seats up less cargo capacity than Mazda3 hatch. This is an SUV right?
2. Rav4 suspension, no doublewishbone front and no attempt at underbody aero.
3. For price and utility a rav4 , crv and cx5 make more sense in almost every regard except interior. As much as I like the 4 banger. Its a 4 banger.
All of this related to the 45k as tested Fsport.
Not just yourself, but all journalists take the printed number at face value without actually taking a moment to realize how impossible this figure is instead of validating it.
You're right, it's an SUV with matching cargo. Needless to say, I've pointed this glaring misrepresented spec out to Lexus and it got their attention. 2. Incorrect. NX suspension is not the RAV4's suspension. Only thing shared are suspension mount points. All suspension parts are unique to the Lexus despite some similarities in design.
3. When buying a luxury car, it is by definition a weak value proposition. Non-luxury counterparts will be the more sensible buys 100% of the time. Why state the obvious instead of comparing it to luxury CUVs such as the X3, GLK, and Q5?
As for the choppy ride, the TPMS read 39-40 way over the recommended 32 psi. You mentioned no difference dropping the psi which leads me to believe you had a faulty gauge. Owners including myself notice a smooth ride at lower psi.
Last edited by corradoMR2; 07-06-15 at 08:55 PM.
07-06-15, 09:10 PM
#12
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Thread Starter
These are all just talking points, please remember these "opinions" are not judgements on owners taste or anything personal. And to clarify we made some mistakes in the review and your feedback helps to improve things, appreciate it.
The CX5 is also one of the best in class, but you pointed out some shortcomings, nothing wrong with that and I agree. This is a new platform. Most of what we are doing despite some mistakes is gather data and going to try and help improve the vehicle by gathering that information and passing it along. We could have done better here and thanks for pointing it out.
The ride is smooth for sure but it's overly dampened and its very apparent over chop. Not a deal breaker just another area to mention. May bother some other like most of the owners like the sportiness.
Toyota much like other companies share many parts with their sub brands it's nothing new. The ES the RX are current examples and now the NX.
Is it better than the RAV4, yes. It has a new well thought out rear suspension and other cool touches. BUT the AWD system and front suspension is RAV4 in fact most of the underbody is and that is just fact.
The NX doesnt have some of the the aero and sound deadening that the other Lexus models have underneath nor as many vibration dampers We left all of that out of the video. Does it make the NX a bad SUV no. But the reality is your chassis is mostly RAV4. And at 45k we have to point it out.
The other areas like interior, yes absolutely its best in class. Lexus quality. They have 10s of thousands of hours in durability testing on the new motor and trans. It's a good SUV overall, but going forward there are definitely areas to improve.
Its really hard to compare the US market to Canada, in fact its absurd how Canada gets some features we don't get and vice versa.
We don't get adaptive suspension and clearly its a cost cutting measure. We have driven on the adjustable dampers on two Lexis it does make a difference however those were also running DW front suspensions, not struts. Regardless I assume it would help the NX as you could run less aggressive rebound until you go into sport.
Looks are subjective but I am telling you while I don't mind it on the NX or other Lexis not one person I talked to in my usual circle liked it. Not one. I had a discussion on a recent press trip about the same thing, almost every journalist told Toyota how awful it was. Its the most panned aspect of this recent generation. The Veloster had the same issue mostly any quirky car like the Cube, Juke, Soul etc. But I will agree with you as said in the video it's unique and nothing looks like it in the end who cares right?
Its the elephant in the room, and I have gotten tired of defending it so I had to address it here. No offense.
The 4 banger, I am a fan big fan, love it, but again at 45k it makes less power than competing 4 bangers with turbos from just about everyone and REQUIRES premium fuel. So it's something to note here.
See, here again, I've got to disagree. Having traded in a CX-5 for the NX, except for rear cargo space, nothing else on a CX-5 compares to this Lexus. With 3 years of ownership of a CX-5, I can say this some authority. Essentially, I paid $15K more for this NX over the Mazda and I feel like I got my $15K worth of fit, finish and premium materials over the Mazda. Mazda's engine power is deplorable, particularly in the first model year run!
First, I would like to say I do not believe that Lexus over did the front. Why not make it different..to me, it is art work. It doesn't need to look like other SUV's. That's what makes it special. That's what made me want it.....it is different. Most all SUV's these days look the same !
Second... I don't think you gave enough credit to the smooth and quiet ride that the NX has on normal and highway roads. Sure, some choppy to the ride on rough surfaces, but not nearly as much as others in it's class. There is no way you can think that this is a Rav4 ride..the Rav4 is much worse and much more noise level on all surfaces. I also test drove a CX5, no way was it as quiet , nor did it ride as smooth.
You gave your opinion, but I disagree with most of what you said. That is mine......as NX owners, we didn't pay the big bucks to drive a Rav4, and there is a big difference in them. I wish Lexus had never mentioned the fact that the NX was built on the same frame, so everybody can call it a glorified Rav4.
Second... I don't think you gave enough credit to the smooth and quiet ride that the NX has on normal and highway roads. Sure, some choppy to the ride on rough surfaces, but not nearly as much as others in it's class. There is no way you can think that this is a Rav4 ride..the Rav4 is much worse and much more noise level on all surfaces. I also test drove a CX5, no way was it as quiet , nor did it ride as smooth.
You gave your opinion, but I disagree with most of what you said. That is mine......as NX owners, we didn't pay the big bucks to drive a Rav4, and there is a big difference in them. I wish Lexus had never mentioned the fact that the NX was built on the same frame, so everybody can call it a glorified Rav4.
The ride is smooth for sure but it's overly dampened and its very apparent over chop. Not a deal breaker just another area to mention. May bother some other like most of the owners like the sportiness.
Toyota much like other companies share many parts with their sub brands it's nothing new. The ES the RX are current examples and now the NX.
Is it better than the RAV4, yes. It has a new well thought out rear suspension and other cool touches. BUT the AWD system and front suspension is RAV4 in fact most of the underbody is and that is just fact.
The NX doesnt have some of the the aero and sound deadening that the other Lexus models have underneath nor as many vibration dampers We left all of that out of the video. Does it make the NX a bad SUV no. But the reality is your chassis is mostly RAV4. And at 45k we have to point it out.
The other areas like interior, yes absolutely its best in class. Lexus quality. They have 10s of thousands of hours in durability testing on the new motor and trans. It's a good SUV overall, but going forward there are definitely areas to improve.
1. If someone wants more space they won't buy the vehicle, they will look at something else. Maybe an RX, which I just traded in for the NX because I wanted something smaller.
2. Does the RAV4 have an Adaptive Variable Suspension? Didn't think so. At least mention that it is available on the F-Sport in most countries. To do a thorough review you should have at least made the short trip across the border to Canada and tested one with this feature to compare the two.
3. It's a turbo 4 banger. A lot of people prefer this to a V6, including myself.
I also like the F-sport grill. To me I find it looks aggressive and masculine.
2. Does the RAV4 have an Adaptive Variable Suspension? Didn't think so. At least mention that it is available on the F-Sport in most countries. To do a thorough review you should have at least made the short trip across the border to Canada and tested one with this feature to compare the two.
3. It's a turbo 4 banger. A lot of people prefer this to a V6, including myself.
I also like the F-sport grill. To me I find it looks aggressive and masculine.
We don't get adaptive suspension and clearly its a cost cutting measure. We have driven on the adjustable dampers on two Lexis it does make a difference however those were also running DW front suspensions, not struts. Regardless I assume it would help the NX as you could run less aggressive rebound until you go into sport.
Looks are subjective but I am telling you while I don't mind it on the NX or other Lexis not one person I talked to in my usual circle liked it. Not one. I had a discussion on a recent press trip about the same thing, almost every journalist told Toyota how awful it was. Its the most panned aspect of this recent generation. The Veloster had the same issue mostly any quirky car like the Cube, Juke, Soul etc. But I will agree with you as said in the video it's unique and nothing looks like it in the end who cares right?
Its the elephant in the room, and I have gotten tired of defending it so I had to address it here. No offense.
The 4 banger, I am a fan big fan, love it, but again at 45k it makes less power than competing 4 bangers with turbos from just about everyone and REQUIRES premium fuel. So it's something to note here.
07-06-15, 09:29 PM
#13
Driver School Candidate
Thread Starter
1. Incorrect. Mazda 3's 20.2 cu Ft of cargo is measured to the ceiling. NX's 17.7 cu Ft is measured to the tonneau cover. To the ceiling, NX is 28 cu Ft as per here: https://www.clublexus.com/forums/nx-...the-mulch.html
Not just yourself, but all journalists take the printed number at face value without actually taking a moment to realize how impossible this figure is instead of validating it. You're right, it's an SUV with matching cargo. Needless to say, I've pointed this glaring misrepresented spec out to Lexus and it got their attention.
2. Incorrect. NX suspension is not the RAV4's suspension. Only thing shared are suspension mount points. All suspension parts are unique to the Lexus despite some similarities in design.
3. When buying a luxury car, it is by definition a weak value proposition. Non-luxury counterparts will be the more sensible buys 100% of the time. Why state the obvious instead of comparing it to luxury CUVs such as the X3, GLK, and Q5?
As for the choppy ride, the TPMS read 39-40 way over the recommended 32 psi. You mentioned no difference dropping the psi which leads me to believe you had a faulty gauge. Owners including myself notice a smooth ride at lower psi.
Not just yourself, but all journalists take the printed number at face value without actually taking a moment to realize how impossible this figure is instead of validating it.
You're right, it's an SUV with matching cargo. Needless to say, I've pointed this glaring misrepresented spec out to Lexus and it got their attention. 2. Incorrect. NX suspension is not the RAV4's suspension. Only thing shared are suspension mount points. All suspension parts are unique to the Lexus despite some similarities in design.
3. When buying a luxury car, it is by definition a weak value proposition. Non-luxury counterparts will be the more sensible buys 100% of the time. Why state the obvious instead of comparing it to luxury CUVs such as the X3, GLK, and Q5?
As for the choppy ride, the TPMS read 39-40 way over the recommended 32 psi. You mentioned no difference dropping the psi which leads me to believe you had a faulty gauge. Owners including myself notice a smooth ride at lower psi.
However I will say we do test cargo capacity and I can tell you most certainly for an SUV and this is a segment issue not so much with the NX that it's small. In between a hatch back and mainstream SUVs. When we did our storage test we used a Focus hatch and Mazda3 and believe me the NX barley had more USABLE room than the 20-22k cars. Thats what soured us. Whats the point of an SUV? Again discussion not a diss.
2. We looked at a RAV and NX before we said this, it's basically the same including the AWD system. They also share identical wheel base... Even had interchangeable part numbers in parts of the front end. I looked it up after to verify. I will be glad to post this data and video of RAV4 is so desired. It's not a bad thing but owners don't like to hear this, not sure why.
3. Because comparisons are too biased in many cases, it's a double edge sword. But you are right this vehicle is not a value proposition nor is the segment. And part of the issue with this review which I will admit was not our greatest was this segment is confusing and no way reflects on the NX as a vehicle and I am admitting that mistake.
Last edited by Dezoris; 07-06-15 at 09:50 PM.
07-06-15, 10:06 PM
#14
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1. Noted on the space, it seemed odd and we don't measure everything as that's impossible. I will also forward it on to my rep as their spec sheet clearly says 17cu feet.
However I will say we do test cargo capacity and I can tell you most certainly for an SUV and this is a segment issue not so much with the NX that it's small. In between a hatch back and mainstream SUVs. When we did our storage test we used a Focus hatch and Mazda3 and believe me the NX barley had more USABLE room than the 20-22k cars. Thats what soured us. Whats the point of an SUV? Again discussion not a diss.
2. We looked at a RAV and NX before we said this, it's basically the same including the AWD system. Even had interchangeable part numbers in parts of the front end. I looked it up after to verify. I will be glad to post this data and video of RAV4 is so desired. It's not a bad thing but owners don't like to hear this, not sure why.
3. Because comparisons are too biased in many cases, it's a double edge sword. But you are right this vehicle is not a value proposition nor is the segment. And part of the issue with this review which I will admit was not our greatest was this segment is confusing and no way reflects on the NX as a vehicle and I am admitting that mistake.
However I will say we do test cargo capacity and I can tell you most certainly for an SUV and this is a segment issue not so much with the NX that it's small. In between a hatch back and mainstream SUVs. When we did our storage test we used a Focus hatch and Mazda3 and believe me the NX barley had more USABLE room than the 20-22k cars. Thats what soured us. Whats the point of an SUV? Again discussion not a diss.
2. We looked at a RAV and NX before we said this, it's basically the same including the AWD system. Even had interchangeable part numbers in parts of the front end. I looked it up after to verify. I will be glad to post this data and video of RAV4 is so desired. It's not a bad thing but owners don't like to hear this, not sure why.
3. Because comparisons are too biased in many cases, it's a double edge sword. But you are right this vehicle is not a value proposition nor is the segment. And part of the issue with this review which I will admit was not our greatest was this segment is confusing and no way reflects on the NX as a vehicle and I am admitting that mistake.
07-07-15, 03:46 AM
#15
Lexus Test Driver
1. Noted on the space, it seemed odd and we don't measure everything as that's impossible. I will also forward it on to my rep as their spec sheet clearly says 17cu feet.
However I will say we do test cargo capacity and I can tell you most certainly for an SUV and this is a segment issue not so much with the NX that it's small. In between a hatch back and mainstream SUVs. When we did our storage test we used a Focus hatch and Mazda3 and believe me the NX barley had more USABLE room than the 20-22k cars. Thats what soured us. Whats the point of an SUV? Again discussion not a diss.
2. We looked at a RAV and NX before we said this, it's basically the same including the AWD system. They also share identical wheel base... Even had interchangeable part numbers in parts of the front end. I looked it up after to verify. I will be glad to post this data and video of RAV4 is so desired. It's not a bad thing but owners don't like to hear this, not sure why.
3. Because comparisons are too biased in many cases, it's a double edge sword. But you are right this vehicle is not a value proposition nor is the segment. And part of the issue with this review which I will admit was not our greatest was this segment is confusing and no way reflects on the NX as a vehicle and I am admitting that mistake.
However I will say we do test cargo capacity and I can tell you most certainly for an SUV and this is a segment issue not so much with the NX that it's small. In between a hatch back and mainstream SUVs. When we did our storage test we used a Focus hatch and Mazda3 and believe me the NX barley had more USABLE room than the 20-22k cars. Thats what soured us. Whats the point of an SUV? Again discussion not a diss.
2. We looked at a RAV and NX before we said this, it's basically the same including the AWD system. They also share identical wheel base... Even had interchangeable part numbers in parts of the front end. I looked it up after to verify. I will be glad to post this data and video of RAV4 is so desired. It's not a bad thing but owners don't like to hear this, not sure why.
3. Because comparisons are too biased in many cases, it's a double edge sword. But you are right this vehicle is not a value proposition nor is the segment. And part of the issue with this review which I will admit was not our greatest was this segment is confusing and no way reflects on the NX as a vehicle and I am admitting that mistake.
1. Price =/= storage. If I wanted a low end Ford or Mazda, I would have gotten that. I honestly couldn't care less what the mazda 3 had (I actually traded a hunk of junk mazda 3 for my NX), and it honestly is not a comparison point. I can't think of a single time when someone would cross shop a low end utility hatchback with a luxury brand CUV. I sense that you were digging for comparisons and couldn't find much better. Your comparison should have been against the Evoque, or the MKC, or even the BMW/Mercedes options. Thus, you'd had comparable prices, sizes, and demographics.
2. Now wait...you're telling me that you found similar parts....on similar cars...from the same company? Say its not so.
You mean to say that my Camaro shares parts from the previous generation GTO and G8, and even shares a motor from the previous gen corvette? OF COURSE they share parts, that's how you keep manufacturing prices down. They will always share parts, but the cars are no where comparable. Again, no one will cross shop a Rav4 and an NX. They just won't.3. I don't really have much for this point other than, most people don't buy luxury in looking at the value. They simply see the car they want, love whatever it is they love about it, and buy it.
4. I'm going to add another point...you keep pushing 4 banger 4 banger 4 banger. What is your point? That because cars have 4 cylinders, they are all simply comparable? No, they really aren't. Engine designers are different, the ways the engines run, the power they provide, and the longevity of their life, are all different. You need to get rid of this blind comparison. And PLEASE, get off the premium fuel thing. Who honestly cares? Its ~$200 extra a year. Toyota decided they didn't want to pull timing in order to accommodate for lower octane fuel. If you can afford a $45k car, you can afford premium. Stop whining.
Finally, the only extra variable I'll add is that you state the rear brakes have to be done by the dealership because of a key. That is simply not true. I can go online and buy the key without an issue and be able to do the work myself. Do not state things like that without having the full background.
Last edited by Swacer; 07-07-15 at 03:58 AM.