SMC

Thanks Alan.

I just got my car back. Dealer did their job as quoted, got the car back with complete exterior wash and interior vaccummed, they even cleaned my engine bay. No regret not going to Exact for this 90K service.

RMMGS4

iTrader: (5)

It's all good SMC. I appreciate your consideration and some benefit of the doubt. I worked 12 + hours at work today so no time to do any inquiry. Maybe later this week.


Exact is a small family run business with only two people doing all the work. Over the years, they get to know us and our cars very well. My personal decision about services industries is this. I don't go to a repair shop (dealer) I go to a mechanic, I don't go to a paint shop, I go to a painter, I don't go to a window tint shop I go to a winder tinter, etc. etc.

The reasoning behind this is, I am getting personal and consistent service. If I go to the dealer, there's no telling who will work on my car and if their performance will be up toi the standards that I have come to expect. Case in point, when I worked in the car audio installation world, I saw that the install the workmanship , etc. varied (sometimes) greatly within the same shop, depending on who did the work. This not only translates to the work perfomed but the overall care and handling of your car.

I have included a thread link below where even our very own NorCal Lexus Tech will tell you that dealer experiences can be varied (TAMR_GUS98) That's pretty much the point I am making here. Lexus dealer performance is overall very good, but it doesn't mean every trip to the same dealer will guarantee the same results.

If you do a search on the forums (not just NorCal) you will read stories from those of us with lowered cars, body kits, expensive rims, etc. who got damage after bringing their car to the dealer. In some cases resolving the problem and making it right has turned out to be a nightmare.

This is probably the #1 reason why I would not bring my car to the dealer. Now for those with stock rims, not lowered, no expensive bodykit, well by all means go to the dealer for your service, they can handle that.

So back to Exact for a moment, anyone who knows John knows "he cares" about our cars and "he cares" about our onging business with him. If you look back at all the recommendations for Exact, I will bet you will find that no one ever claimed that Exact was the cheapest shop in town, or that they beat everyones prices.

Those of us who are loyal to his shop go there for reasons beyond just comparing his hourly rate. Those of us who go there know we are getting more than that.

I made a very quick search of experiences at some of the local Lexus dealers. Compared to all the negative comments I've read about Exact, these dealer stories are no better and often worse.

https://www.clublexus.com/forums/sho...ighlight=wheel

https://www.clublexus.com/forums/sho...867#post778867

( includes TAMR_GUS98 thread comments)
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/sho...ramonte+dealer

https://www.clublexus.com/forums/sho...hlight=service

RMMGS4

iTrader: (5)

Sorry you feel this way, but I must ask, what is it that they did that causes you to judge their character to be dishonest or greedy?

Yes, your feelings are quite different from what you have read others post, which is what makes your comments so disconcerting.

For instance:
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/sho...hlight=service

https://www.clublexus.com/forums/sho...ighlight=exact

rominl

iTrader: (4)

with the title change i think now it's more "appropriate", in a sense that it's more of an objective view on exact rather than a balant call. after all it's one (or a few) people's opinions and this is bound to happen. all i can say is sorry about your experience, although i can say i will still take my car there for service any day.

like i have said before, 90k is nothing more than just a name, a number. there is a recommendation list on the manual about what to do, but let me tell you this, NOT even all dealerships follow that. that's why i said get a full list of what's done and compare it that way. just throw out the price of 1500 and 500, seriously, is as useless to me as anything you can imagine. if you really want, just get your OWN custom list of stuff you wanna do and tell them what to do, rather than just saying 90k service. personally i have never asked them to do 30k or 60k service, i always go there and say "change oil, change tranny fluids, diff fluids, and bleed the brakes". i can care less about if that's 60k service or not.

and another thing i care most is the quality of work. i am NOT saying dealership work are bad, as a matter of fact i personally know a superb master tech in socal working on my cars. however, i can also say chances of running into a mechanic who is fresh out of school is pretty damn high. at least when i bring my car to exact, i know for sure that the $90/hr is spent on some quality work done by john. seeing him work more than a few times, i can tell how careful he is. after all, that's what we all need for our cars.

SMC

It seems like my experience of the high price quote was not normal in the beginning of this thread, but after the title was changed, the same price being compared is now normal/acceptable/expected.

What's the hidden message here?

mikal

here's a list of the 90k service for a GS from local So. Cal dealers.
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=196993

Some offer more work than other. Cant really compare unless you get a full breakdown of what's being performed.

RMMGS4

iTrader: (5)

Well it looks like another local member mentioned this thread to Exact before I got to them. As it turns out, Sandy has been attempting to respond to this thread but it appears she has trouble logging in. She has PM'd the admin. but currently cannot reply.


In the mean time I will report my findings and let Exact respond if they choose to down the road. (Once they can get their login working)


After investigating and talking to Exact and a Magnessun tech I have the following findings & observations:

#1- Both Magnessun and Exact will recommend replacing the belt at 90k for the same reason, "Preventative Maintenance". It is difficult to truly know the condition of a timing belt without actually removing the covers and pulling part of the belt off. It is somewhat of a judgement call to say a belt is "OK" since the recommendation will be based on the use history of the car, milage/ age, how it has been maintained, a minimum visual, etc. The bottom line is beyond 90k, there is no guarantee how long the belt will last.

From the above information, my take is that those who choose not to change the timing belt do so at their own risk and this choice not to change would remove any liability by the shop doing the work.

I would pose the question that if one chooses not to change their timing belt at 90k then when, 120k or more ??? To me the cost of the belt is not enough for me to risk trying to gain another 30k of milage at the risk of breaking the belt, which can occur at any time, any where at a moments notice.

Let's get this perfectly clear folks; not changing plugs, oil, filters, etc. at the recommended service interval may not be good for the car's longevity, but none of these are likely to cause the engine to die instantly like a timing belt break would. This could happen to you while on the freeway, in a bad part of town, on a long trip down Hwy 5, etc. Is this worth the risk?

It is obviously in a shops best interest to recommend changing the timing belt. Any shop that says it's OK for another 10-20k, is taking a risk and may be liable if it should break on the customer within that recommendation.


#2 - So as mentioned by several people on this thread, it is very difficult to know exactly what a "basic" 30/60/90k service includes unless you go over all the details to be sure you know exactly what you are getting. After again talking to Exact and a Magnessun Tech I found that Exact included a sparkplug change on their 90K quote. Magnessun DOES NOT change plugs on their 90k service.

From additional discussions on this topic with both Exact and Magnessun, I don't believe neither Exact or Magnessun should be considered to be at fault for choosing to include or not include plugs at 90k.

From Magnessuns side, they would expect the plug change to occur at either the 60k or 120k service, depending on the type plugs utilized on the car. Magnessun does not do plug changes at 90k, nor do they inspect the plugs to see if a change would be recommended.

From the Exact side, it is common practice for them to change plugs at 90k service, regardless of make, Honda, Toyota, Nissan, Lexus, etc. (They don't do American makes)

Talking to the Magnessun Tech, he believes that the labor time to change 8 plugs is more than 1 hour, but didn't know how much more, at the time we spoke. (He wasn't at work, but I suppose I can confirm later)

If you take Exact's labor rate of $90/hr + the approximate dealer price for 8 OEM sparkplugs, I'd say we are looking at about $200 for the cost of installing plugs P & L.

Based on the above information Exact would charge $350, to do the same 90k service as what Magnessun charges $577 which also includes a loaner car and they wash your car & engine.

I have asked Exact to make sure to let people know what is included in their service and to make sure it is clearly communicated that changing plugs and timing belt are optional, though highly recommended.

Hopefully this clears up any mis-understandings.

My part to investigate and report findings is done.

I believe Exact may choose to respond to any other comments directed to them by SMC.

SMC

Thanks RMMGS4. Great report and write up.

I assume the Sandy you refer to is from Exact. If the $350 you quote Exact's 90K service is indeed confirmed by her. AND that the 90K service we speak of here is the same as that of the Mag dealership (brake, steering, tranny, differential, oil, coolant, rotate+balance wheels and safety inspections) then I must say that Exact is indeed offering a heck of a deal I had not realized.

EXACT

Hi! SMC, I'm Sandy from Exact, I believe I talk to you when you called for pricing. $577 for 90k is still more expensive than mine, my 90k for $550 are include all fluid, air filter, 8 platinum spark plugs. What's include in your 90k? are you be able to tell us all?

EXACT

What I do for 90k is more than dealer does, we replace air filter, oil filter, 8 platinum spark plugs, oil, atf, rear differential fluid, brake fluid, coolant. balanced & rotated tires, check brake system, full car inspection! Timing belt service is recommanded to replace by the manufacture of the car is for prevention, dealer can't check timing belt without removing it, I believe dealer won't remove timing just to see & tell you if you need to replace it or not, because it takes time to remove it & replace it back. Most customers did what recommanded for service is for preventing car breaking down when they need it. Do you know if your car's timing belt broke, car stop running at that same moment, it can cause accident & inconvienence. You can't call me dishonest & greedy because I recommanded you what to do, you have a choice not to do. How you determine a person is honest or dishonest? You don't even know me!

I thank you very much for every members that supporting us, in business & in the forum. Thank you!

rominl

iTrader: (4)

thank you exact for posting here and clarify some of the questions we have. it does seem like exact does quite a bit more than dealerships for certain services, and in this case, the 90k. it also seems like customers have the right to choose what to perform and what not, and the price would be adjusted accordingly, which makes sense to me as well.

thank you sandy for posting the feedback, it's always good to know directly from the source!

henry

EXACT

Assuming what you mention here for the 90k is what been done at the dealer, at my shop will cost under $350, we can drop customer off to any destination within 5 miles, I don't have a loaner car for you, but the money you save is more than enough to rent a car from Enterprise 4 building away from us & a fancy car wash.

EXACT

[QUOTE=RMMGS4]Well it looks like another local member mentioned this thread to Exact before I got to them. As it turns out, Sandy has been attempting to respond to this thread but it appears she has trouble logging in. She has PM'd the admin. but currently cannot reply.


In the mean time I will report my findings and let Exact respond if they choose to down the road. (Once they can get their login working)


After investigating and talking to Exact and a Magnessun tech I have the following findings & observations:

#1- Both Magnessun and Exact will recommend replacing the belt at 90k for the same reason, "Preventative Maintenance". It is difficult to truly know the condition of a timing belt without actually removing the covers and pulling part of the belt off. It is somewhat of a judgement call to say a belt is "OK" since the recommendation will be based on the use history of the car, milage/ age, how it has been maintained, a minimum visual, etc. The bottom line is beyond 90k, there is no guarantee how long the belt will last.

From the above information, my take is that those who choose not to change the timing belt do so at their own risk and this choice not to change would remove any liability by the shop doing the work.

I would pose the question that if one chooses not to change their timing belt at 90k then when, 120k or more ??? To me the cost of the belt is not enough for me to risk trying to gain another 30k of milage at the risk of breaking the belt, which can occur at any time, any where at a moments notice.

Let's get this perfectly clear folks; not changing plugs, oil, filters, etc. at the recommended service interval may not be good for the car's longevity, but none of these are likely to cause the engine to die instantly like a timing belt break would. This could happen to you while on the freeway, in a bad part of town, on a long trip down Hwy 5, etc. Is this worth the risk?

It is obviously in a shops best interest to recommend changing the timing belt. Any shop that says it's OK for another 10-20k, is taking a risk and may be liable if it should break on the customer within that recommendation.


#2 - So as mentioned by several people on this thread, it is very difficult to know exactly what a "basic" 30/60/90k service includes unless you go over all the details to be sure you know exactly what you are getting. After again talking to Exact and a Magnessun Tech I found that Exact included a sparkplug change on their 90K quote. Magnessun DOES NOT change plugs on their 90k service.

From additional discussions on this topic with both Exact and Magnessun, I don't believe neither Exact or Magnessun should be considered to be at fault for choosing to include or not include plugs at 90k.

From Magnessuns side, they would expect the plug change to occur at either the 60k or 120k service, depending on the type plugs utilized on the car. Magnessun does not do plug changes at 90k, nor do they inspect the plugs to see if a change would be recommended.

From the Exact side, it is common practice for them to change plugs at 90k service, regardless of make, Honda, Toyota, Nissan, Lexus, etc. (They don't do American makes)

Talking to the Magnessun Tech, he believes that the labor time to change 8 plugs is more than 1 hour, but didn't know how much more, at the time we spoke. (He wasn't at work, but I suppose I can confirm later)

If you take Exact's labor rate of $90/hr + the approximate dealer price for 8 OEM sparkplugs, I'd say we are looking at about $200 for the cost of installing plugs P & L.

Based on the above information Exact would charge $350, to do the same 90k service as what Magnessun charges $577 which also includes a loaner car and they wash your car & engine.


Thank you very much RMMGS4 explaining so clearly, what you mention here is exactly what I wanted to say. Some cars if timing belt break , it will interfere engine, hit valve, then it will cause more money to repair it, so any maintainance on car is for prevention & for a peace of mine & long lasting & sometime can save $$$.

EXACT

[QUOTE=FunGuy]I second that notion. I hate exact motorsports. I too been ripped off each and everytime I go there. I too take my car to Mag Lexus of Freemont as often As i can. They are cheaper than anywhere else.
John is the owner but his wife sandy drives up all of the prices.

NO MORE EXACT!!!

I am sorry to make you hate exact so much, if you don't love a person, where the hate come from, so thank you for loving us before. We are very seriously doing business here, we charge what been done, we honestly & fairly treating our customers, we won't rip off customers, because we know the concept of long term customers, if they are happy, they will refer their friends & families to us. We belive we never meet you before & you never have any work done by us, if you did, please mention the work been done to your car & what kind of car you own.

markgs4

John and Sandy took great care of me when I went there to install my coilovers last year, and I plan to go back soon to replace my ball joints and tie rods. They were both friendly, professional, informative and their prices were very fair (especially considering that the shop here in Concord was going to charge me $400+ for the same services).

I made the drive all the way from Concord based on the recommendations here on the forumns by many of our Nor Cal members, and I wasn't disappointed. That one experience was enough to convince me that the drive from Concord to get work done by Exact was worth it