Japanimal

http://www.amsoil.com/products/atf.html

I am not sure how it stacks up to the Toyota T-IV but Amsoil is not known to make substandard lubricants.

dmd85059

I'm sold by Amsoil completely on their motor oil. However, I'm still a little skeptical about their "universal" transmision oil. Anyone is brave enough for a test on their car hihi? I've emailed them and here's what they had to say:

-------------------------------
I have a Lexus GS300 which uses Toyota T4 trans. fluid. I'm still a little
skeptical of the broad compatibility of your universal trans. fluid. If
possible, could you please email me a spec. sheet of T4 fluid in comparison
to Amsoil Universal Trans. fluid? Thanks.
--------------------------------
Thanks for taking the time to contact AMSOIL with your concerns.

In response to your inquiry, sorry but we have no data sheet for the Toyota
Type T-IV fluid authorized for release to the public. You may be able to
procure one from Toyota. Our data sheet is posted in the "PRODUCT
INFORMATION" section of our website.

Thank you again for the opportunity to respond to your concerns. As always,
please feel free to contact us again if we can be of further assistance.

Thank you,

Jim Van
--------------------------------
Hi, if Amsoil doesn't have a T4 properties sheet, how do your company know
your fluid compatible with T4? Is there an agency that can verify this such
as American Petroleum Institution or is this just Amsoil claim? Thanks.
Jimmy.
--------------------------------
To: Jimmy

From: AMSOIL Technical Services Department

The reply was that we don't have a data sheet on the Toyota for public release.
A transmission fluid has to be correct for the manufacturer's spec or it can't
carry the rating. It would be somewhat foolhardy for us to authorize our product
for potential use in millions of vehicles if our chemists had not thoroughly
evaluated the chemistry. Until Exxon merged with Mobil we were the largest
supplier of synthetic lubricants in North America. Even after the merger of the
two giants we are still right on their heels. We didn't get there by marketing
products that don't do what they are supposed to.

Thank you,

Jim Van
AMSOIL Technical Services

============================================

So, I think I'll give it a shot next time I have my oil change. In the meantime, if any of you have tried it, please let us know!

mburnickas

Ok, I have been using Amosil fluids since my 94 LX 5.0 mustang days.

All that aside, they came out with this ATF in about 6 to 7 years ago or around 1997/1998. It passed toyota Ford, Mack also then. It did not cover GM I think.

I used it in my Ford F-350 Powerstroke with the worlds WORST tranny the E40D. They always have problems with this and that. When I sold it with just about 80,000 miles that tranny was in very good condition as per the Service manager stated at Lexus (got my car-traded the truck). Plus the service guy stated it shifted nice for a 1-ton.

I have been using the Amsoil ATF for jut about 2 years in My ES300. Works great, smells sweeeeeet and still as red as the day I put it in! I have about 25,000 miles and will change at 35,000 miles this interval and 45K next time.

So install it and forget it. It works.

Lexmexico

You can put Mobil 1 into a car that requires Toyota Type-IV. I know this from two diplomatic friends here with Toyota Harriers (yes, they shipped them across the Pacific), who have had them here since 1998 well before Toyota opened its doors here in 2002. They claim no ill results, but did put in Type-IV quite recently without much difference. I doubt Amsoil would be much different, but to be safe I will keep using Type-IV. Think about it, you do not change ATF that often (like motor oil), you still need to get it pumped out when you do.

To make the switch, I would have to see LONG-TERM data comparisons of the respective fluids within a Lexus and/or Toyota.

mburnickas

I diagree with Lexmexico. Again there is no need to buy Lexus Toyota Type-IV fluid (which is WAYYYY over priced). You can use any oil as long as it passes the proper specifications needed in your application.

Also when you have it changed you do not need to pump out old fluid. It is a waste of time and money. The small amount left in these trannys after a drain is soooo small. Just drain, install new filter (which is metal) and re-install fluid.

I do not know about Mobil for ATF but I know when I tried there Mobil Delvac in my diesel, the oil was not really as good as people told me. There ATF could be just as good as Amsoil’s but every since Mobil changed their base stock several years ago; which stopped there extended drains, I dislike Mobil. It is 100% a money-maker. I buy the Amsoil for less $$ and it performs the same if not better and can use extended drains and the oils tests are perfect.

This is not an Amsoil thread but it is by far the best product for the money. There are other good oils out there as I have stated in the past. But comparing money after, lets say after 30K miles, Amsoil will save time & money (while not compromising performance)

Lexmexico

Here in Mexico, it is very common for people to put the wrong ATF in. I know one Toyota dealership that put in ESSO ATF in my friend's ES300. Transmission went to hell, and it had to be towed to San Antonio, Texas. Moreover, given that you do not change ATF all that often, why not use Type-IV.

However, for my money I put in Mobil 1 oil since Amsoil is not even sold here (surprising if it is really that good).

hyperopt

This statement isn't correct for the first generation LS. Draining of transmission fluid via plug or pan removal removes about 2L out of 8L capacity.

PERRYinLA

I'd go a bit further and say that's not true for almost any car - except those Mercedes that have drain plugs on their torque converters. For most other auto trannies, the bulk of the fluid is stuck in the torque converter, and that is only coming out with a flush, as opposed to a drain. Plenty of other threads explain more about this, so I'll leave it at that.

SeattleGS400

iTrader: (1)

Toyota T-IV ATF is only $3.79/quart at Burien Toyota (near Seattle), so I don't think it is at all over priced. The Lexus dealership sells the same product for $7/quart, so it helps to shop around. Further, the Amsoil synthetic ATF, according to their website, is certified to work with Toyota T-IV ATF. While I'm not about to jump into using it yet, this may be an option for me once people are using it successfully in their cars.

Also, the GS (and probably LS as well, as Perry and HyperOPT else mentioned) has a capacity of 9 quarts in the transmission. A simple drain and refill only takes out 2 quarts that is in the transmission pan (which leaves 77% of the old fluid in the rest of the transmission line--torque converter and elsewhere). You would have to do 10 drain and refills to get most of the old fluid out, and that still leaves 8% of the old fluid in there (which is pretty neglible). The only way to get most of the fluid out in one shot is via a flush from the dealer using a pump machine, which isn't recommended if your transmission hasn't been serviced in a long time AND your car has many miles on it (due to sludge buildup)--which in that case, I'd just do a few drain and refills initially, then a drain an refill during each oil change interval.

mburnickas

PERRYinLA- Wrong... even fords have drain plugs and ford does not even drain the torque converters! Also incorrect here is the most of the fluid in the torque converter. My old truck, 1997, held 19 qts of atf and the torque converter only held 8 qts. Did the drain 3 times and the same came out within 0.5 quarts.

Also you will probably never have a problem if you never drain the torque converter. Again waste of time I feel ubnless it is a 10 minute drain.


SeattleGS400
So you think the about $4 per qt is not overpriced for T-IV? I think so for what you get compared to Amsoil price, value and benefits. But each to there own I guess. I find it hard to believe that my small ES drains more ATF fluid then the larger LS or GS? Something is wrong here. Also been using Amsoil in my car for sometime.

Also, no being a pain here, but I do not know what along time means. Is it 15K 30K etc. Plus how does the dealer know when it was drained and when things MIGHT happen?

SeattleGS400

iTrader: (1)

I recently paid $24.99 for 6 quarts of Mobil 1 5W-30, and I change my oil once every 4-5K miles. Add $7.99 for the Toyota 90915-2004 filter, and its's around $33 for each oil change--expensive, sure, but it's good insurance down the road. Now, if I do a drain and refill on my ATF, it's $3.79/quart for T-IV ATF (from Burien Toyota), add a $2 crush washer, it's going to run me $9.58 and literally another 5 minutes to change my ATF--it's no big deal for me. No fluid lasts forever, and considering I drive around 15K a year, I'd wager that replacing my ATF once or twice a year (for a measly $9.58) is also good insurance to keeping a clean and smooth running A/T for years to come.

You mentioned that your ES drains more than the GS--that is probably true-as the car's A/T are different designs. My old '00 Acura TL's A/T had a 7 quart capacity, and it drained 3 quarts for each drain and refill (43% old fluid out). Nonetheless, my '99 GS400 has a 9 quart capacity and it only drains 2 quarts (22% old fluid out)--this info is from the Lexus service manual. Your ES drains more, again, just different A/T designs.

What do I mean by "a long time"? A long time is considered 70k+ miles w/o any automatic transmission service--trust me there are cars like this. Talk to some mechanics and they'll tell you stories about people asking for ATF flushes on the used car that they just bought with this many miles (or they themselves have neglected over the years), only to have their A/T fail within a week of the procedure being done. The mechanics will only recommend a drain and refill (or two) for the intial A/T service in those neglected cars, but never a flush.

Like many lubricants, ATF has detergents and additives to help keep wear and tear contaminants in suspension (to prevent accelerated wear) and also to clean and clear up sludge that tends to build up over time. Draining and refilling removes some of those particulate suspensions and also of the sludge as well (much like Dawn dish soap removing a coat of cooked-on meat and fat from a cooking pan). If you neglect your A/T w/o changing any fluid, the particulates just stay in there causing damage (esp. when the fluid's capacity to buffer particulates has reached a maximal level), while thicker and thicker sludge layers start coating your valve body, torque converter, and some parts of your transmission line--as the detergents will slowly stop doing their cleaning chemical work miles back (like any detergent, you can only clean up so much). Say you let this go on for 70k miles, then do a full ATF changeover. Here's what happens: 1) yes, you do get most of the particulates in suspension out and then some--which is good, but. . . 2) you have all new ATF with strong detergents that will start working right away at cleaning up the sludge buildup. Now envision something, back to the cooked-on meat remanants from the cooking pan and you just put on some Dawn, what's going to happen? Some of it will slowly dissolve and go into suspension--fine--but some of the cooked on sludge layers will come off in solid chunks--some sooner, some later. What's going to happen to these solid chunks? Clog up lines, get into the gears, get into the valve body, clog up a filter (depending on your filter design), resulting in a transmission that will overheat and eventually fail. That's why I recommend a few drain and refills initially if your car hasn't been serviced in a while (or if you don't know the service history or the ATF is just plain brown or black), so you initially only have some gentle cleaning, and slowly work a little bit of sludge loose (and eventually over the course of a few weeks or so, the ATF will clean those small bits of solid sludge by dissolving them directly into a safe liquid suspension) instead of a strong shock of all new ATF (which will get a lot of the solid chunks of sludge off, but too fast and the chunks too large, which causes the aforementioned damage). After the initial drain and refill, then change the ATF over the course of the next oil changes, to slowly get the particulates and sludge out and chemically into solution. Eventually (maybe after 7 drain and refills later), assuming you start off with dark brown/black ATF in your car), you'll get a clean raspberry colored ATF, and a cleaner A/T without risking damage to your car that could have resulted from an ATF flush.

For about $10 per drain and refill, are you going to take risk to rebuild a $6k transmission? If I was in that postiion, it's not worth the risk. Further, an additional 5 min of manintenance to change the ATF is good insurance to keep my car's transmission running smooth and clean for years to come.

I'm sure that Amsoil ATF has it's benefits, but as I know that Amsoil just recently certified their universal ATF for use as a T-IV substitute, but for me, I'll just pass until I see more people sucessfully using it. I do like Amsoil, however, as I have a case of their 5W-30 sitting around for the next oil change. And a while back, I recently change the rear differential with their Series 2000 75W-90 gear oil ($20 for 2 quarts).

mburnickas

Here is my take on it. I pay $4.00 per qt and drain once per year. Am not a Amsoil nut, just know what number I have seen doing oil tests and the stuff works. Also there is no sure thing do the road anymore. If it gives you “piece of mind’ then that is all that matters. I just have better things to do with my time, money, etc and will not waste on oil changing. There is the engine oil pitch.

If you can do the ATF that cheap then that is good. I disagree with the statement made by you,” No fluid lasts forever”. I had a Ford musting 5.0 LX that was SEALED from the factory. The tranny was not to be drained. Also with proper filtration (bypass) it can last a long as indefinite time.

Is replacing the ATF twice a year really getting you anything? I guess no and that is why the manual states every 30K or 2 years. When they print things like that you know they have cushin in there as with any design (as they teach in design classes).

As far as who’s has more…It just looked weird..no contest here.

It was my understand that these fluids have additives to hold in suspension to ensure they flow to the filter and not fall the bottom of the pan or passages. If you use a nice fluid it should not have sludge problems. Doesn't sludge caused by junk oil and it then falls out or is burnt fluid? If you use a good fluid it will get filtered and/or not burnt. If you tranny gets that hot you have bigger things then fluid problems.

I also do not think the Lexus tranny is not a $6K job, maybe retail and no one pays retail. At least smart ones.

To close I have 28K on my tranny fluid and I will get it tested to see what is up this summer. I am not worried since it is red as hell and smells sweeeeeet! . It worked great on my 1-ton Ford with the worst tranny in the world,,,the E40D

Ps. I liked there old Series 2000 better. It was a cool blue color now they change it

nthach

the tranny fluid in my LS is a reddish-brown, not a bright red. Should i just change out 2 quarts, or let the local Toyota dealer flush it out?

mburnickas

Well I wil ask this, how many miles on car? How many miles on fluid? What kind of fluid? I am not an ATF expert but what I have found by myself and other people is that what the fluid smells like is more import then color. If it smells burnt I would change it. If is still smeel like new atf or sweetie you are fine.

Lexmexico

I knew my fluid was getting bad after 25K miles when it was turning a silver (due to metallic dust) and promptly had it flushed. Then again, I live in a hilly area and drive the car hard.

What you really want to see in the case of your LS is whether the drops of ATF fluid blot correctly on a piece of paper. If the fluid spreads out, you still have good ATF fluid. If it just sits still, time to FLUSH IT. Usually, you can drain and replace it if you are doing regular driving and then flush it about every 30-40K miles (based on friends' experiences). Motor oil functions similarly in the blot test, but is of course way different in mileage. However, do not let motor oil get to the point where it does not blot. Then you have real problems.