Bluesman

Greetings,

I purchased a 1994 ES300 w/ 82,000 miles roughly a month ago. The ATF is starting to look more black than red. I'm concerned. I have the records from the seller and she did keep up w/ the scheduled maintenance on the vehicle. In fact, the ATF was changed during the 75,000 mile service. Hence, I'm concerned that it's turning black after 7,000 miles. The delear advised that I perform a 15,000 mile service. I declined to do so. I'm curious as to what advice CL may have. Should I have it flushed ? Should I take it to a transmission shop ?

Thanks.

Lexmexico

Good question. What I think may have happened is what happened to me. My Lexus dealer back in Maryland used to put in Castrol ATF, the regular Dexron garbage. Once in Mexico, I drove my RX like a bastard, despite regularly taking it to my local Toyota dealer and the dealer up in San Antonio. Mine also started to change color. I asked Lexus of SA what gives, and they said my prior dealers were not using Toyota Type-IV ATF or Mobil 1 ATF, both synthetics.

Another possibility, even if they did use the Toyota or Mobil 1 ATFs, it could be that the the shop followed different ATF removal procedures. For instance there are four ways that I know of:

1. The old-fashioned way, open the valve and let it drain. This hardly gets anything out, but that is the reason I do not take it to the Toyota dealer here in Mexico City, as they think this does the job, NOT!

2. The two fluids method. They open the valve, and let pour two fluids in that GET MOST of the old ATF out, but not all.

3. Running the engine method. They open the valve, and let the engine kick out the ATF fluid as it goes into its cycle. This does a good job of getting the fluid out, but again NOT ALL, and it is a little risky on the transmission unless you know what you are doing.

4. The pump method. The best way by far. Here a special pump (not all dealers have this) will pump as much fluid as possible out. Of course no method is perfect, but this is by far the best method on earth.

I seriously doubt the dealer ever did number 4.

I would take it to a transmssion shop with a pump. I am not sure how much ATF you need for that car, but you can buy the Toyota ATF at any Toyota or Lexus dealer (cheaper at Toyota). Mobil 1 is commonly available. Mobil 1 ATF is an older synthetic ATF formula than the Toyota formula.

HD-GS4

Coming from past experience with owning an ES300, I can tell you that the ES has an extremely fragile transmission. My fluid was always black. It didn't matter if it was recently changed or not. My brother has an ES300, and his fluid had the same problems with turning black. He was recently slammed with the reality of having to replace the transmission! It completely failed on him with only 95K miles. Wouldn't even go in to gear. My ES didn't shift smoothly for the 2 years that I owned it. It never seemed to get any worse, but seeing my brother need to replace a tranny made me a little gunshy, so I sold the thing and bought an SC400. The transmission in the SC is much more robust and smooth. If I were you, I'd sell your ES while you still can.

By the way, Toyota type IV fluid is NOT recommended for the ES300. Type IV is for vehicles such as the SC400. The vehicle specifically calls for Dexron type fluid (look right on the tranny dipstick).

Guitarman

You can always use the old mechanic's trick to find out if the fluid is oxidized and bad.

Pull the dipstick out and let a couple drops fall onto a clean white paper towel. Wait a couple minutes. If the fluid spot is a solid color, and uniform throughout, it's still ok. If the spot has a darker "ring" or bullseye in the middle, and lighter on the outside, then it's oxidized.

This is a general way to judge the ability of transmission fluid to do it's job, but yes, it works.

If it's turning black that fast, then obviously you may not need such a test to judge it, but for other cars, it is.

Good luck any which way.

fireballs gs400

had my pan taken off and had 2 quarts of new type iv put in my 99gs4. It seems to helped out a bundle. I was doing this for the heck of it...but i was told i would need about 10 more quarts for a entire flush from tc to tranny. I have my rear end oil changed as well with royal purple...checked to make sure it was gle 4 and 5 approved...i believe i got those numbers correct, thanks bryan

Lexmexico

I had a friend with an ES300 down here who would beg to differ regarding the use of Toyota Type-IV in his car. The mechanics at Toyota put ESSO Dexron in, and 80 miles later, kiss that transmission goodbye. If you value your car, you will pay no attention to those recommendations.

HD-GS4

Your friend's transmission was obviously ready to go anyway. Using Dexron was just a coinsidense. Look right around the tranny dipstick where you fill the fluid. It says "Use Dexron Type ATF". If you don't see it there, perhaps the sticker fell off. Look in your owner's manual, and you will see it plain as day "Use Dexron Type ATF". If you want to use it, go right ahead- but don't come crying to the board when you make an already fragile transmission worse.

meZoom!

Bluesman,

I'm sorry to say but the ES transmission really IS extremely fragile. What you are experiencing is not new. Does your transmission sort of "buckle" or have any problem shifting when accelerating? You can do a search on ALLLLLLL the different types of tranny problems the ES owners have come across over the years. Try doing a ATF flush or fill.....keep checking the fluid once a week or every 500 miles after that. To give you an idea, my ATF in my 95 ES turned molasses black after just 1000 miles of a drain and fill, probably sooner, but i didn't check the fluid more often. You may take your car to any place you trust, preferably some place where you can stand close to the car and watch them work on it.

Lexmexico

Actually, his transmission has been running fine for the last 17-18K miles or so. The Lexus mechanics up in San Antonio have stated this problem has been occurring with a few Lexuses people bring up from Mexico because of its altitude, almost 8,000 feet up. I think it may have more to do with the stop and go driving, and hill climbing that takes place there, and gave the transmission a real hard time in friend's ES. However, the synthetic Type-IV is doing his job, and he does not fell any more shudders or buckles.

Nick T

Bluesman,
Are you a DIY'r? If so change the fluid yourself. Keep an eye on it ( check the color, smell, condition, paper towel test ) with each fuel-up. As soon as it goes black, change again.. keep doing this until you get at least 7500 between changes. Paying for a flush is nice, it gets all the OLD fluid out and you start with fresh fluid, but if your tranny is like other ES owners I've been reading... The fluid is going to darken relatively soon anyways b/c a flush does NOT remove all the varnish in the tranny.

Lexmexico,
Interesting about the Type IV fluid, I pay and arm and a leg for it $20/gallon (whole sale price) and now as of three weeks ago it sells for $3.75/quart retail price. Maybe all those ES owners with transmission problems might want to look into it.

meZoom,
Try doing a few more drain/fills to clean out your varnish. If your tranny "buckles" while accelerating try using either Lube Guard or Life Product's "Red Bottle" ATF conditioner. I'm not familiar with your tranny but if it has shift and lock-up solenoids pull and clean them ( internally clean ). I believe your car has a throttle position cable attached to the tranny. Make sure it's not too tight.

fireballsGS,
For a V8 toyota tranny it's probably 16 quarts for a flush.. $60 just for ATF

meZoom!

dood-

my ES died on me months ago. as much as i would've loved to keep her, it made more sense to sell it, so now i drive an 03 Impreza. My common belief is that the torque converter/clutch was gooooone in my car.

Bluesman

I have yet to change the ATF, but I haven't driven the car much of late either. I have noticed that the tranny buckles more often than not when I approach 40 mph the first time I get in the car and drive. Once it shifts into the next gear, it runs fine until I drive it for the first time on another day. Does this mean anything to anyone ?

I plan to do a tranny flush at a local transmission shop and use Dexron ATF since I have a 1994 ES300. I will monitor it after the flush and see what happens. I'm hoping that I will not have to sell the car.

Thanks.