Got Sludge??????
07-20-02, 11:01 AM
#1
Lexus Champion
Thread Starter
Got Sludge??????
i just got home from the infiniti dealer (my brother is thinking of ordering a G35) and was told something very interesting by the salesman. he said that lexus has recently had a problem with sludge in their engines. ive been on this board for 9 months or so now, and have never heard of such a problem, i told him. he said that it had been on the news and in all of the papers. is this true? like i said i have never heard anything about it and he siad the V8s were especially susceptible. i think it was salesman BS, but if there is something that i sshould know, i would like to be informed......
Doc
Doc
07-20-02, 11:15 AM
#4
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Good afternoon Dr. Rick
lol,... those car dealers are shadier than 3 shadows stacked on top of one another.! Ive never heard of the sludge thing?.... Are ya sure the dealer wasnt skitzophrenic?,.... cause my uncle is, and he makes up weird crap like that all the time? 
07-20-02, 11:19 AM
#5
Lexus Champion
Press release 04/03/02
Toyota Customer Support Program Provides Comprehensive Coverage for Unusual Maintenance-Related Cases
April 3, 2002, Torrance, Calif. - Toyota Motor Sales (TMS), U.S.A., Inc., today announced a new customer satisfaction program for owners of 1997 through 2002 Toyota and Lexus vehicles equipped with 3.0-liter V6 or 2.2-liter 4-cylinder engines. Toyota is taking this action because a very small number of customers have reported engine damage from motor oil breakdown, also known as oil gelling or "sludging," a result of oil change intervals delayed beyond the factory-recommended schedule. While any make vehicle can suffer from this condition if the oil is not changed often enough, Toyota has initiated this program to ensure owner peace of mind.
To make sure that customers have absolute confidence in their vehicles, this program will cover repair costs and incidental expenses for which a customer has paid or could incur as a result of damage due to oil gelling for a period of eight years from the date of first sale or lease without a mileage limitation. In addition to the costs of repairs, reasonable incidental expenses, such as car rental, and other out-of-pocket expenses will be covered.
This program replaces a previous special policy adjustment regarding oil gel damage, and extends protection against this condition well beyond the new vehicle powertrain warranty period.
Oil gelling is not caused by engine design, but by the long-term effects of changing oil at intervals longer than factory recommendation. When maintained according to schedule, it is extremely unlikely that any vehicle powertrain will develop this condition.
Lexus and Toyota will continue to communicate to customers the importance of assuring proper maintenance schedules for any automobile. Customers whose engines have needed repair in the past should contact Toyota at 888-802-9436 or Lexus at 888-654-6421 for details on obtaining reimbursement. In the very unlikely event that this condition should develop in the future, customers are advised to see their dealer to arrange for repairs.
April 3, 2002, Torrance, Calif. - Toyota Motor Sales (TMS), U.S.A., Inc., today announced a new customer satisfaction program for owners of 1997 through 2002 Toyota and Lexus vehicles equipped with 3.0-liter V6 or 2.2-liter 4-cylinder engines. Toyota is taking this action because a very small number of customers have reported engine damage from motor oil breakdown, also known as oil gelling or "sludging," a result of oil change intervals delayed beyond the factory-recommended schedule. While any make vehicle can suffer from this condition if the oil is not changed often enough, Toyota has initiated this program to ensure owner peace of mind.
To make sure that customers have absolute confidence in their vehicles, this program will cover repair costs and incidental expenses for which a customer has paid or could incur as a result of damage due to oil gelling for a period of eight years from the date of first sale or lease without a mileage limitation. In addition to the costs of repairs, reasonable incidental expenses, such as car rental, and other out-of-pocket expenses will be covered.
This program replaces a previous special policy adjustment regarding oil gel damage, and extends protection against this condition well beyond the new vehicle powertrain warranty period.
Oil gelling is not caused by engine design, but by the long-term effects of changing oil at intervals longer than factory recommendation. When maintained according to schedule, it is extremely unlikely that any vehicle powertrain will develop this condition.
Lexus and Toyota will continue to communicate to customers the importance of assuring proper maintenance schedules for any automobile. Customers whose engines have needed repair in the past should contact Toyota at 888-802-9436 or Lexus at 888-654-6421 for details on obtaining reimbursement. In the very unlikely event that this condition should develop in the future, customers are advised to see their dealer to arrange for repairs.
07-20-02, 12:03 PM
#7
Pole Position
Originally posted by wantAnewLex
I think that applied to all the Toyota/Lexus 3.0L V6s. It's not BS. Nobody ever accused Toyota of making a good V6.
I think that applied to all the Toyota/Lexus 3.0L V6s. It's not BS. Nobody ever accused Toyota of making a good V6.
Seriously, I think some of the owners of Lexus and Camrys have gotten so sold on the "quality" aspect that they fail to realize you do have to change your oil. We're paranoid with 3K or, heaven forbid, 5K oil change intervals. These folks let them run 10-20K or more! I heard a story about an LS that had been driven for 60K miles :eek: without an oil change and it was sludged. A-DUH!
I find it pretty unlikely that a properly maintained engine would encounter this problem and Toyota is being awfully nice in taking care of "problem"
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07-20-02, 12:09 PM
#8
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Originally posted by Mr Johnson
But, it's a Lexus!
Seriously, I think some of the owners of Lexus and Camrys have gotten so sold on the "quality" aspect that they fail to realize you do have to change your oil. We're paranoid with 3K or, heaven forbid, 5K oil change intervals. These folks let them run 10-20K or more! I heard a story about an LS that had been driven for 60K miles :eek: without an oil change and it was sludged. A-DUH!
I find it pretty unlikely that a properly maintained engine would encounter this problem and Toyota is being awfully nice in taking care of "problem"
But, it's a Lexus!
Seriously, I think some of the owners of Lexus and Camrys have gotten so sold on the "quality" aspect that they fail to realize you do have to change your oil. We're paranoid with 3K or, heaven forbid, 5K oil change intervals. These folks let them run 10-20K or more! I heard a story about an LS that had been driven for 60K miles :eek: without an oil change and it was sludged. A-DUH!
I find it pretty unlikely that a properly maintained engine would encounter this problem and Toyota is being awfully nice in taking care of "problem"
I agree. I change the oil in my ES about every 4K and my dad changed the oil in the GS twice already and it doesn't even have 5K on it.
Not even a Toyota can handle the abuse of 10-20K miles between changes. I bet a BMW or Jag would just plain explode, though, so those people should be thankful.
07-20-02, 12:23 PM
#10
Lexus Champion
Originally posted by wantAnewLex
...I bet a BMW or Jag would just plain explode, though, so those people should be thankful.
...I bet a BMW or Jag would just plain explode, though, so those people should be thankful.
The 3 series E46 comes from the factory with synthetic, and the first scheduled oil change is @ 15k, if not sooner or later as indicated by the car's adaptive driving computer notification.
I speak from experience, and actually inspected the oil and filter with the tech with I had mine done. 'Nary an issue, and I drove it in a spirited manner, from time to time.
Simply stating that BMW can make a durable 6, and has for several years.
07-20-02, 01:22 PM
#11
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Originally posted by Dex
Ho hum....
The 3 series E46 comes from the factory with synthetic, and the first scheduled oil change is @ 15k, if not sooner or later as indicated by the car's adaptive driving computer notification.
I speak from experience, and actually inspected the oil and filter with the tech with I had mine done. 'Nary an issue, and I drove it in a spirited manner, from time to time.
Simply stating that BMW can make a durable 6, and has for several years.
Ho hum....
The 3 series E46 comes from the factory with synthetic, and the first scheduled oil change is @ 15k, if not sooner or later as indicated by the car's adaptive driving computer notification.
I speak from experience, and actually inspected the oil and filter with the tech with I had mine done. 'Nary an issue, and I drove it in a spirited manner, from time to time.
Simply stating that BMW can make a durable 6, and has for several years.
07-20-02, 01:33 PM
#12
Lexus Champion
Approx 3000 of over 3 million Toy/Lex V6s have been identified with sludge to date. T/L did not exactly cover themselves with glory in their initial response, with dealers basically telling customers that it was THEIR (customer's) fault, even in instances where oil changes were well documented at T/L recommended intervals but NOT performed at the dealer. In some cases, the JiffyLubes were found to actually not have performed the work (ie, oil NOT changed) but in most, the maintainence was indeed performed.
As time passed, more and more owners with sludged motors were proven to have maintained their engines properly and T/L initially sent out a letter (with a very condescending tone) giving owners a year's warranty from the date of the letter. This was followed by the subsequent letter (text of which was posted by PaddyWagon) giving owners 8 years from date of original purchase regardless of mileage.
There has been a great deal of discussion over on Edmunds on both the RX300 board and several forums regarding sludge for those who are interested. The "8 year" letter has pretty well quieted things down. Also, a running change to the PCV valve installed in the V6s was made, which may or may not have contributed to the resolution of the much rumored, never proven "design problem" with the V6. Regardless of how much of a problem there really might be with the motor (older members may recall the Audi PR fiasco in the mid 80s), T/L response has subsequently been to nuke the whole possibility by warranting the motors, regardless of mileage, for 8 years from purchase.
In all, it appears that their were probably a number of factors that would occasionally come together to cause engine sludge in normally maintained motors.
Now, NOBODY has ever alledged problems with the Lexus 4.0 and 4.3 liter V8s of this nature. Their are a buttload of older V8s out there with zero problems; I know of a 92 LS400 with over 300k on the motor with nothing other than routine maintainence. The Lexus V8 appears to be especially robust compared to most other existing V8s on the market. Remember, if you want unbiased information about a car, don't ask a salesman for a competing brand. Hell, don't even listen to 'em!!
As time passed, more and more owners with sludged motors were proven to have maintained their engines properly and T/L initially sent out a letter (with a very condescending tone) giving owners a year's warranty from the date of the letter. This was followed by the subsequent letter (text of which was posted by PaddyWagon) giving owners 8 years from date of original purchase regardless of mileage.
There has been a great deal of discussion over on Edmunds on both the RX300 board and several forums regarding sludge for those who are interested. The "8 year" letter has pretty well quieted things down. Also, a running change to the PCV valve installed in the V6s was made, which may or may not have contributed to the resolution of the much rumored, never proven "design problem" with the V6. Regardless of how much of a problem there really might be with the motor (older members may recall the Audi PR fiasco in the mid 80s), T/L response has subsequently been to nuke the whole possibility by warranting the motors, regardless of mileage, for 8 years from purchase.
In all, it appears that their were probably a number of factors that would occasionally come together to cause engine sludge in normally maintained motors.
Now, NOBODY has ever alledged problems with the Lexus 4.0 and 4.3 liter V8s of this nature. Their are a buttload of older V8s out there with zero problems; I know of a 92 LS400 with over 300k on the motor with nothing other than routine maintainence. The Lexus V8 appears to be especially robust compared to most other existing V8s on the market. Remember, if you want unbiased information about a car, don't ask a salesman for a competing brand. Hell, don't even listen to 'em!!
07-20-02, 08:12 PM
#14
Lexus Champion
One more true story re Lex V8 longevity. Corporate bought one of the very early 100k mile cars back in 90 or 91 (remember, only here since 89), and tore the engine down, measured every part in the top and bottom to research wear. Result: EVERY part measured was within replacement part spec so they just buttoned it back up. To all intents and purposes, a properly maintained Lex V8 sustains no wear.
Had Audi reacted in similar fashion over the "unintended acceleration" crisis, they would have a far greater presence in the US than current. Their non-reaction literally condemned them into 15 years of sales purgatory here. Only know are they beginning to be seen on the streets again in any appreciable numbers.
Had Audi reacted in similar fashion over the "unintended acceleration" crisis, they would have a far greater presence in the US than current. Their non-reaction literally condemned them into 15 years of sales purgatory here. Only know are they beginning to be seen on the streets again in any appreciable numbers.
01-09-05, 12:57 PM
#15
Originally Posted by Daddy-O
Toyota Customer Support Program Provides Comprehensive Coverage for Unusual Maintenance-Related Cases
April 3, 2002, Torrance, Calif. - Toyota Motor Sales (TMS), U.S.A., Inc., today announced a new customer satisfaction program for owners of 1997 through 2002 Toyota and Lexus vehicles equipped with 3.0-liter V6 or 2.2-liter 4-cylinder engines. Toyota is taking this action because a very small number of customers have reported engine damage from motor oil breakdown, also known as oil gelling or "sludging," a result of oil change intervals delayed beyond the factory-recommended schedule. While any make vehicle can suffer from this condition if the oil is not changed often enough, Toyota has initiated this program to ensure owner peace of mind.
To make sure that customers have absolute confidence in their vehicles, this program will cover repair costs and incidental expenses for which a customer has paid or could incur as a result of damage due to oil gelling for a period of eight years from the date of first sale or lease without a mileage limitation. In addition to the costs of repairs, reasonable incidental expenses, such as car rental, and other out-of-pocket expenses will be covered.
This program replaces a previous special policy adjustment regarding oil gel damage, and extends protection against this condition well beyond the new vehicle powertrain warranty period.
Oil gelling is not caused by engine design, but by the long-term effects of changing oil at intervals longer than factory recommendation. When maintained according to schedule, it is extremely unlikely that any vehicle powertrain will develop this condition.
Lexus and Toyota will continue to communicate to customers the importance of assuring proper maintenance schedules for any automobile. Customers whose engines have needed repair in the past should contact Toyota at 888-802-9436 or Lexus at 888-654-6421 for details on obtaining reimbursement. In the very unlikely event that this condition should develop in the future, customers are advised to see their dealer to arrange for repairs.
April 3, 2002, Torrance, Calif. - Toyota Motor Sales (TMS), U.S.A., Inc., today announced a new customer satisfaction program for owners of 1997 through 2002 Toyota and Lexus vehicles equipped with 3.0-liter V6 or 2.2-liter 4-cylinder engines. Toyota is taking this action because a very small number of customers have reported engine damage from motor oil breakdown, also known as oil gelling or "sludging," a result of oil change intervals delayed beyond the factory-recommended schedule. While any make vehicle can suffer from this condition if the oil is not changed often enough, Toyota has initiated this program to ensure owner peace of mind.
To make sure that customers have absolute confidence in their vehicles, this program will cover repair costs and incidental expenses for which a customer has paid or could incur as a result of damage due to oil gelling for a period of eight years from the date of first sale or lease without a mileage limitation. In addition to the costs of repairs, reasonable incidental expenses, such as car rental, and other out-of-pocket expenses will be covered.
This program replaces a previous special policy adjustment regarding oil gel damage, and extends protection against this condition well beyond the new vehicle powertrain warranty period.
Oil gelling is not caused by engine design, but by the long-term effects of changing oil at intervals longer than factory recommendation. When maintained according to schedule, it is extremely unlikely that any vehicle powertrain will develop this condition.
Lexus and Toyota will continue to communicate to customers the importance of assuring proper maintenance schedules for any automobile. Customers whose engines have needed repair in the past should contact Toyota at 888-802-9436 or Lexus at 888-654-6421 for details on obtaining reimbursement. In the very unlikely event that this condition should develop in the future, customers are advised to see their dealer to arrange for repairs.