how important is the 30K service
06-26-02, 08:14 AM
#17
Lexus Test Driver
Got my 30k service done at a lexus dealer for $200 with loaner car. Become friends with the service manager. Get to know the the main or head service mechanic. Lot of times these guys work on the side and will service your car off the books. Found out my lexus mechanic services about 25 client this way. The only drawback, is that the service won't go into the computer and keep a history of your car.
06-26-02, 09:26 AM
#18
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Explanation
Does anyone out there have an explanation for why anyone would pay to have (perfectly good IMMHO) transmission fluid, anti-freeze, brake fluid, or diff'l 90W tossed?
My 92 LS will be going in soon for the timing belt, 90k, and I plan to give instructions not to touch any of the above "fluids".
My 92 LS will be going in soon for the timing belt, 90k, and I plan to give instructions not to touch any of the above "fluids".
06-26-02, 10:08 AM
#19
Racer
Yeah, but why toss the "perfectly good" timing belt as well?
Willard, you've probably seen my other posts asking the same question- chances are that timing belt of yours is also in "perfectly good" shape, so why change it out?
I have yet to see a post where a timing belt broke from being worn- a few broke when the water pump siezed, but even a new belt will break under those conditions.
I have yet to see a post where a timing belt broke from being worn- a few broke when the water pump siezed, but even a new belt will break under those conditions.
06-26-02, 10:56 AM
#20
Moderator
Re: Explanation
Originally posted by wwest
Does anyone out there have an explanation for why anyone would pay to have (perfectly good IMMHO) transmission fluid, anti-freeze, brake fluid, or diff'l 90W tossed?
My 92 LS will be going in soon for the timing belt, 90k, and I plan to give instructions not to touch any of the above "fluids".
Does anyone out there have an explanation for why anyone would pay to have (perfectly good IMMHO) transmission fluid, anti-freeze, brake fluid, or diff'l 90W tossed?
My 92 LS will be going in soon for the timing belt, 90k, and I plan to give instructions not to touch any of the above "fluids".
Brake fluid: Over "time" absorbs moisture and becomes more compressable (spongy brakes). Over "time" changes from almost clear to gray and thick and eventually does not move freely. Rear brakes (due to low flow/low pressure) are first to fail.
Transmission and Diff oil: Over "time" the fuilds do not maintain their lubrication as well as viscosity. Filters (if present) catch the suspended particles (carbon, metal, rubber etc) but over "time" more and more sub-filter particles are flowing.
Antifreeze: Over "time" flaking (sludge/crud .. dried coolant ) falls off the engine block, water pump, radiator, hoses etc which can block channels. The freeze point of the fluid chnages over "time".
"Time": Has a diferent multiplier factor based use conditions.
Inactive: includes shelf time and the time vehicle is not running.
Active: Includes run time not under stress. (milage is best indicator)
Stress: (when cooling is inedequate) idling (not for diff), over-reving, steep inclines, exessive loads. {extreme cold can be bad too}
With all these variables, the manufacturers simply suggest "milage" or "months" with Normal or strained conditions.
As a user/owner you can decide what factors to use for "time".
In case of a breakdown and being held accountable, the manuafcturer will fall back on not only on maintainance history but also "use/abuse".
Salim
06-26-02, 01:06 PM
#21
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Responses
Timing belt: This is without question a "wear" item, much like a clutch disk, and as such I have no problem changing it out on a schedule basis. Back in the days when timing chains were more common they did sometimes break due to wear, but more commonly they "stretched" over time nad had to be replaced. A real problem in 78 through 83 Porsche 911s.
Brake fluid: True, the major cause leading to brake fluid problems is due to absorbion of moisture. But where is that to occur? Do you have any idea at the level of hydraulic pressures your brake system endures each and every time you apply the brakes, talk about very well sealed!
So the only place for mositure to enter the system is as airborne water vapor through the air vent in the filler cap. Anyone taken a good look at one of those lately?
I would be will to bet anyone that the clear majority of today's cars can go 100k miles without incurring enough brake fluid moisture contamination to degrade the brakes system more than 1 or 2%, and these are Lexus cars we're talking about here.
Transmission Fluid: Unlike engine lubricating oils, transmission fluid is formulated, specifically, to not hold particulates in suspension. Absent some internal component being in the process of failing the only contaminants will be clutch pak particles, and you'll find all of those in the bottom of the pan if you care to look. The only "failure" mode I am aware of with transmission fluid is that it breaks down due to over-heating, not normal long term heating mind you, but over-heating due to trailer towing beyond its capacity, for instance.
Except for actual repairs I would never change out my transmission fluid unless it failed the "look" (clear and red tinged) and/or "smell" (you'd know a burnt smell if and when) test. Then I would be very into discovering why also.
Diff'l Fluid: Disregarding LSDs with clutch paks... Diff'l fluid is simply another lubricating oil and absent over-heating or contamination by improperly heat-treated failing gear sets "gear" oil never loses it lubricating capability.
Anti-freeze:"(crd/sludge, dried coolant)" Pardon me, but isn't this a Lexus we're talking about? 10 years ago I would have been amongst the first to step up and tell you to change out your anti-freeze on a regular basis. I spent some few years in Montana, it was always a good idea to be able to test your anti-freeze to be sure it was good. I saw an overnight temperature of -51F in Lewistown one winter.
But, things seemed to have changed. Maybe its the all aluminum block Lexus uses, or maybe their engine cooling system is just better sealed overall than the vehicles I have experienced in the past, mostly Fords. I now have direct experience with 5 LS400s, three of them in the 80 to 120k miles category, on none of them has the anti-freeze shown any tendancy to become murky or cloudy, and all of them test to better than -15F.
Brake fluid: True, the major cause leading to brake fluid problems is due to absorbion of moisture. But where is that to occur? Do you have any idea at the level of hydraulic pressures your brake system endures each and every time you apply the brakes, talk about very well sealed!
So the only place for mositure to enter the system is as airborne water vapor through the air vent in the filler cap. Anyone taken a good look at one of those lately?
I would be will to bet anyone that the clear majority of today's cars can go 100k miles without incurring enough brake fluid moisture contamination to degrade the brakes system more than 1 or 2%, and these are Lexus cars we're talking about here.
Transmission Fluid: Unlike engine lubricating oils, transmission fluid is formulated, specifically, to not hold particulates in suspension. Absent some internal component being in the process of failing the only contaminants will be clutch pak particles, and you'll find all of those in the bottom of the pan if you care to look. The only "failure" mode I am aware of with transmission fluid is that it breaks down due to over-heating, not normal long term heating mind you, but over-heating due to trailer towing beyond its capacity, for instance.
Except for actual repairs I would never change out my transmission fluid unless it failed the "look" (clear and red tinged) and/or "smell" (you'd know a burnt smell if and when) test. Then I would be very into discovering why also.
Diff'l Fluid: Disregarding LSDs with clutch paks... Diff'l fluid is simply another lubricating oil and absent over-heating or contamination by improperly heat-treated failing gear sets "gear" oil never loses it lubricating capability.
Anti-freeze:"(crd/sludge, dried coolant)" Pardon me, but isn't this a Lexus we're talking about? 10 years ago I would have been amongst the first to step up and tell you to change out your anti-freeze on a regular basis. I spent some few years in Montana, it was always a good idea to be able to test your anti-freeze to be sure it was good. I saw an overnight temperature of -51F in Lewistown one winter.
But, things seemed to have changed. Maybe its the all aluminum block Lexus uses, or maybe their engine cooling system is just better sealed overall than the vehicles I have experienced in the past, mostly Fords. I now have direct experience with 5 LS400s, three of them in the 80 to 120k miles category, on none of them has the anti-freeze shown any tendancy to become murky or cloudy, and all of them test to better than -15F.
06-26-02, 06:42 PM
#23
Lexus Champion
just to let you know manny, change the filter is very easy, no screws just a simple panel that you pull off, takes less then 10 seconds to change filter. Pull it back (there are little arrows of which way to pull back) replace filter and put the lid on. Note the filter will not be secure until the top is back on, just make sure you get he filter in the bottom clip and then its all good 
06-27-02, 06:10 PM
#24
Moderator
Re: Responses
Originally posted by wwest
Timing belt: This is without question a "wear" item, much like a clutch disk, and as such I have no problem changing it out on a schedule
...
es I have experienced in the past, mostly Fords. I now have direct experience with 5 LS400s, three of them in the 80 to 120k miles category, on none of them has the anti-freeze shown any tendancy to become murky or cloudy, and all of them test to better than -15F.
Timing belt: This is without question a "wear" item, much like a clutch disk, and as such I have no problem changing it out on a schedule
...
es I have experienced in the past, mostly Fords. I now have direct experience with 5 LS400s, three of them in the 80 to 120k miles category, on none of them has the anti-freeze shown any tendancy to become murky or cloudy, and all of them test to better than -15F.
Should have just shared your opinion to begin with.
Salim
07-29-02, 01:56 AM
#25
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my 96ls400 has over 105k miles. i only took my car to dealer for warrenty repairs. i use mobil 1 and change it every 3k. i always did 30,60 and 90k serivice at home and i'm ready to do second 60k service. timing belt change is not hard but it takes long time. if you have spare time than go pick up a lexus service manual and jump on it yourself. if you have some mechanical skills than anyone can do it and save lots of $$.
i just replaced all 4 shocks in my car with OEM parts. now car feels like brand new.
i just replaced all 4 shocks in my car with OEM parts. now car feels like brand new.
08-10-02, 03:00 AM
#26
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Just to give everyone a heads up the dealer quoted me $585 for my 30k service and said there was an increase in parts price...yea yea. The Toyota dealer quoted me $390 so I think Ill just save the $195 for some mods.
08-10-02, 07:46 AM
#27
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30k
Sandrock:
Now take it BACK to the Lexus dealer with owners manual in hand and save another $200. Tell the service writer that you want ONLY the factory recommended service items done, for non-rough service use.
Being an introvert costs money, assert yourself.
Now take it BACK to the Lexus dealer with owners manual in hand and save another $200. Tell the service writer that you want ONLY the factory recommended service items done, for non-rough service use.
Being an introvert costs money, assert yourself.
Last edited by wwest; 08-10-02 at 07:48 AM.
09-12-02, 11:21 AM
#30
Lexus Test Driver
Ummm.....has anyone bothered asking what the dealers are doing for the $500+ dollar 30k mile service?
Complaining about the cost is one thing, and that's fine, but it sounds like you guys just paid the money and went on with your lives without making the dealer explain itself. I hope this isn't the case. Let us all know what they charged you for.
I think WWEST has good advice here; as long as you go by what your service manual says you can keep the dealer from charging you for bogus stuff like "fuel injector cleaning." I took a friend's Jeep to her dealership and they tried to charge me for that at 30k miles. I laughed. But people pay and the dealer gets away with it. At 100k miles it's reasonable but at 30k?!
WWEST, point of clarification, the service manual suggests changing tranny and diff fluids at regular intervals. Is it better NOT to go by the book in this case?
Complaining about the cost is one thing, and that's fine, but it sounds like you guys just paid the money and went on with your lives without making the dealer explain itself. I hope this isn't the case. Let us all know what they charged you for.
I think WWEST has good advice here; as long as you go by what your service manual says you can keep the dealer from charging you for bogus stuff like "fuel injector cleaning." I took a friend's Jeep to her dealership and they tried to charge me for that at 30k miles. I laughed. But people pay and the dealer gets away with it. At 100k miles it's reasonable but at 30k?!
WWEST, point of clarification, the service manual suggests changing tranny and diff fluids at regular intervals. Is it better NOT to go by the book in this case?
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