Sabs

Not the same old question that gets asked often, I think the problems I've been having are more serious than I've heard most people have.

First off, I just purchased a '93 ES300 Auto with 100k miles. It had new plugs and wires soon before I purchased it. Immediately after purchasing, I had the timing belt replaced and a full service. The transmission fluid was a bit discolored when I purchased the car. When I had it serviced, I had them drain the fluid and replace the filter, but they didn't drain the fluid in the transfer case.

Since I bought it, there has been the occasionally harder-than-usual shift, which I've heard some others have had. 1000 miles later, and the problems have been quite a bit more serious. Today I did a little 'testing' with various levels of acceleration, and under mid to hard acceleration, there is sometimes a big lag between shifts. It's usually when shifting up to overdrive. The engine will continue to rev up between the shift, and can take a second or more to engage the next gear. If I were to punch the throttle at this moment, the engine would certainly redline, even when it's shifting at 4k. I checked the fluid, and it is brown with a burnt smell.

There have been a few oddities, such as when accelerating hard up a mild hill... the transmission shifted down-up-down repeatedly. Also, in the first situation I described, sometimes the transmission didn't shift down at all when in overdrive at about 50mph, even with the 'power' profile.

Any expertise you could offer would be appreciated. I'm wondering if flushing the transmission would fix my problems, or if my car was beat on, and needs a rebuild. Otherwise, the car seems to be running very smootly.

itsallgood

Can you explain what transfer case your car has, usually transfer case's are on 4 wheel drive trucks?

just wondering...

Aloha

Sabs

Crankcase? I dunno, that's why I'm asking.

quick

Well, let's tackle this logically:
facts:
a) it costs a bunch of money to rebuild a tranny
b) it costs a lot less to flush the tranny and replace the fluid
c) you don't know if the tranny needs rebuilding

conclusion:
1) Get the tranny fluid replaced and see if it makes a difference.
2) If it doesn't then get the problem diagnosed by a mechanic and potentially rebuild the tranny.

Hope that helps.

Sabs

I agree that yours is a logical idea, I just would rather not spend the time/money in the shop to have the transmission flushed if it won't do any good -- that is why I described my problems to see if anyone would recognize these as a result of wear on the internals.

What kind of price am I looking at for both jobs? I'm guessing $150 to have the tranny flushed, $1200-1500 for a rebuild from past experience..

wwest

First of all I suspect you meant to say torque converter, not transfer case.

Secondly, tranx normally do not shift into over-drive at any level of "acceleration".

Third. With this many miles your motor mounts may be shot, letting the motor "shift" positions slightly under differing RPM/torque levels, and the shift in position affect the throttle position just enough to move from WOT to not, and back and forth. Trust me, it happens.

That may also be why your fluid is burnt, too many "needless" shifts.

Sabs

Is it that unlikely for the transmission to go out?

I really think the clutch plates are slipping, it feels like they aren't grabbing when the transmission upshifts. It is most noticable in the higher gears, but it is present in every upshift. I don't see how the fluid could go from new to burnt and brown in 1000 miles of highway driving. The shifting only became really bad in the last few days.

Maybe I'm not describing it well enough...but I can explain a little further. When upshifting, rather than the the rpms almost immediately dropping, they fall gradually. For instance, shifting at 4k RPM's, it takes as much as a full second between when the RPMs start dropping, and when they hit 2-2.5k. This is done with no change in throttle input on my part.

The reason I know it is slipping is because I've tried increasing the throttle a bit during the time just after it shifts out of gear. There is very little 'grab' when RPMs are increased up to as much as 6000 RPM. If I do this, it can take a couple seconds to finally upshift. I think it is in gear this whole time, yet slipping - there is enough resistance that I know the tranny's not in neutral or matched with a stripped gear. Anyway, when the shift is finally completing, it grabs lightly, and doesn't pull forward hard. The mechanic didn't find any clutch material in the fluid, but it seems to me it's the clutch.

Now that I've elaborated a bit, any further thoughts?

quick

It might be your torque converter.

Read this http://www.howstuffworks.com/automatic-transmission.htm to understand how an automatic transmission works.

hyperopt

Sorry to hear about your problem which sound serious. If you drained rather than did a complete fluid flush, don't expect the fluid to stay new for too long as only a fraction of the old fluid was replaced. On the LS draining only replaces 1/4 of the total volume. You mentioned that the fluid smelled burned; this is a good indication that there is internal failure. Good fluid should smell somewhat sweet. Short of taking your car to a transmission specialists, there isn't a whole lot you can do except to do a complete fluid flush and check for proper volume level.

Goodluck!

Sabs

I just checked the pricing on a rebuilt transmission - $1875 with labor. Ouch.

I commute about 100 miles per day, and I'd like to get the car running as soon as possible; the thing that worries me about flushing the transmission fluid is that I could be in the same situation within a few weeks, and have spent the money on a process which may or may not be a permanent solution. I'm feeling ripped off, having spent $6750 on the car just a month ago. A transmission is a big chunk of that price.

Hermosa

Make sure you only use the Lexus spec ATF. If you didn't, drain it and get some at your local Lexus/Toyota dealer. Dealerships say many people come in with problems with their transmission after they got the fluid changed and it wasn't the right mixture. After putting the right ATF in from Lexus it worked much better and smoother. So this leads up to the question, did Lexus or Toyota do your maintenance, or did you buy the Tranny fluid from the dealership and then take it to a third party service center? If you did none of those get the right stuff before you start tearing away at your tranny.

Sabs

Excellent point, Hermosa.

My local shop is not a Toyota/Lexus dealership, and I know they didn't use Lexus ATF... and the previous owners said the fluid was changed recently before I purchased it. I noticed on the service reminder that they also went to a small repair shop, so I wouldn't be surprised if they used the wrong ATF and the problems started there.

I talked to a couple Toyota dealerships within reasonable distance, and they both recommended a rebuild only as a last resort. Sounds like it could be a number of things, but as I can have the transmission flushed and replaced with the correct fluid for $100-125, I'll try that first and see what other suggestions they have at the same time.

When I call ahead for an appointment, I will tell the Toyota dealership to order ATF if necessary. What name exactly does it go by, and how many quarts should I have them order?

The advice is much appreciated.

Hermosa

The tranny fluid should not cost that much and any Lexus dealer should have a ton of it since they do maintenance all the time. The total capacity of the 93 ES300 tranny is 6.6 pints(3.3 quarts). I hope this helps.

I do not know the name but I believe the Lexus ATF has a blend of chemicals that other companies are not allowed to duplicate.

Sabs

Thank you, that does help.

I will post again with the results in a couple weeks...

wwest

considered it sounds like you need new clutch paks in your tranx. But I would still check the motor mounts, 120k is a bit early for new clutch paks unless the car was abused or used as a tow vehicle.