sbmIS300

Amsoil claims that you can use their synthetic oil and not have to change it for 25,000 miles or 1 year. Does anyone have any experience with Amsoil? Can I really trust the oil to stay clean for that long?

Mean Gene

I've had friends run Amsoil in their race cars plus I've seen plenty of SAE reports that rank it up near the top of available oils. For those of us that are close to my age ( 43 ), ya'll might remember that STP tried that same sales gimmick back in the mid 70's. In theory, 25k miles is considered the maximum a daily driven lubricant should be run but it typically demands a filter change every 3500-5000 miles or so to keep the oil clean. The STP project didn't work out as STP got sued over engine damages caused by people trying to get the advertised 25,000 miles out of the oil. Don't know why they tried it with a conventional oil instead of a synthetic but I recall that Mobil One wasn't available to the general public until a few years later. Even with synthetic oil the additives will break down, albeit slower than in a crude based oil. I personally wouldn't even try to milk 25k out of an oil - my engine's worth WAY more than that!

RON430

I think if you go back through the posts you will see quite a bit of opinions on the synthetic oils. Most of them, including AMSOIL, are superior to pure petroleum based products but the long mileage between changes is sort of a horsepower war between oil manufacturers. The real benefit to the synthetics is lower deposits and chemical breakdown combined with the most important element for me, much better thermal stability both high and low temperatures. However, there are two additional factors that the synthetics do little for. One is the suspension and removal of metal particles from normal engine wear and the second is contamination from hydrocarbons, primarily gasoline that leaks past rings when the engine shuts down and winds up in the oil. Several guys leave the synthetic in for the equivalent of two oil changes but change the filter in between to get a fresh one on to remove particles. Personally, oil, even synthetic is cheap and if anything goes wrong in your engine it normally results in higher temperatures somewhere so I use synthetic and pretty much still use the recommended change interval. Not trying to get into a debate of wasting money with oil changes. If you go longer, fine. The only way any of us will know if the interval is too long is by tearing our engines down after a couple of hundred thousand miles and measuring wear and looking at deposits which I doubt anyone will do. Most of the synthetic manufacturers have backed way off on the long interval because of the filter and contamination issues. Don't think I would be too comfortable going 25,000 regardless of the oil. But the temperature stability has me use synthetics wherever possible. Red Line is also a very good synthetic manufacturer and they produce a broad line of synthetics including ATF which just provides a little more cushion.

mooretorque

There is a poster over on Edmunds who used Amsoil in his RX. He went along with the Amsoil party line as far as oil changes were concerned. His engine sludged and he has had a running battle with Lexus over warrantying the engine. The consensus is that his ***** should be with Amsoil.

RON430 is quite correct. Oil (whether syn or dino) doesn't "wear out". But it does carry more and more crap in suspension as time goes by. The various additives DO break down. Oil changes to me are cheap insurance, regardless of whether one's choice is from the fossils or from the lab.

RON430

Without trying to start any flaming wars here, I did some research on the synthetics quite a few years ago. About the only thing required to be called synthetic was to not be from feedstock from our dinosaur buddies. One of the brands was based on camphor and that was good enough to be called synthetic. As I recall both Amsoil and RedLine were much closer to engineered materials than the offerings from the majors. It is not a big point because generally all of the synthetics have superior lubrication properties over temperature than the straight hydrocarbons and have vastly better breakdown properties although the rumor on the camphor based product was that it was prone to deposits. We use synthetics in vacuum pumps here that handle nasties but they are truly synthetics, perfluorinated ethers, that you just can't break down but they are on the order of $300 a pint and don't figure anyone wants to try that in their Lexus. Still think oil changes are cheap and synthetics with a good filter are better buys for the protection versus going cheap. Will slowly use RedLine to go as synthetic as possible, trannie first.

Mean Gene

Ron - FLAME!!! I've see now that Exxon/Mobil ( Mobil 1 ) is having a patent war with Castrol; Valvoline & others that make a synthetic blend. M1 wants exclusive right to the term "synthetic" but I believe the courts are going to rule against that. However, from my friends at EM, the court IS going to make the blends display that term more prominately on their bottles & only 100% true synthetics ( like the ones ya'll use & are actually derived from a gas as it's base stock ) will be able to claim to be just that. Personally, I don't see where anyone with any brain cells can get the two types confused as long as they read the label!!

RON430

Gene - I'm shocked, shocked to hear that there is misleading advertising going on in the oil/automotive industry! Doubtless the courts will help this situation. Shame it's so hard to be a consumer.

willard west

Anyone tempted to use AMSOIL at all or for their suggested extended periods should first read their (NON-)warranty...

http://www.amsoil.com/warranty.htm


Mobil 1 is certified for aviation use and that says enough for me.

mooretorque

Willard, you are a FONT of information!! I did not know M1 was aviation certified. Did hit your link over on Edmunds re Amsoil; very interesting. Certainly goes a ways to explaining why gimpy has gone after Lexus in his sludge grudge. Can't see him shipping a V6 for inspection. Nor Amsoil paying. (No flames, Amsoil adherents, please......no doubt an excellent oil, only a step below whatever might be required for perpetual motion.......just can't see why anyone with an IQ above room temp would actually go 20-25k between oil changes and THEN be surprised that their engine sludged.) And M1's been good enough for me since around the time it was introduced.

And I'm with RON, shaken to the core that advertising might not tell the whole truth and nothing but the truth.....

RON430

Willard West - I was afraid that this was going to come up. To the best of my knowledge, Mobil entered the aviation business with a line of synthetics also called Mobil 1. I am not sure if they are the same formulations as the auto oils. However, they had very severe problems with them that lead to a large amount of engine failures. There were hundreds of engine failures that was traced to the oil. Mobil settled the law suits and paid for a bunch of engine inspections and, as I remember, over 600 engine rebuilds which is a lot on our general aviation fleet. At that point, Mobil withdrew the synthetics from the general aviation biz. I am a pilot and know some guys who had the problem with the Mobil 1 oil so I sort of treat Mobil 1 as one of the pack but maybe not the best (OK Gene, this might be your area but it is hard to get that bad taste out of my mouth). It pays to read the labels and do some investigation as you might not be getting what you think you are paying for with the synthetics. I definitely do like Red Line but it is hard to get and expensive but if you investigate them, they are doing a lot of things right and synthetic ATF brings all those good synthetic properties to your local transmission. And in the ATF you don't have to contend with the contamination issues so it does last a very long time.

Mean Gene

Ron - Is the Red Line synthetic ATF the correct formulation for our GS models? I'm not worried about Lexus warranty issues over using syns in either the engine or tranny - I've got that straightened out with my dealer. I just wasn't aware that anyone made a synthetic ATF for the GS or I'd be using it. FWIW - all the SAE tests I've seen point toward Royal Purple being the best available but it's alot like Red Line ( which also finishes high in testing ) in it's cost & availability. Good old Mobil 1 is readily accessable at Wally World & priced OK, especially when U can catch the 5 quart jug on sale for $17.99 ( like last month ). I might be singlehandedly responsible for a nationwide shortage of the 5W-30!! :eek:
I'm not a pilot but fly in helicopters virtually every week & ERA Helicopters use Mobil oils in the turbines but they aren't syns.

RON430

Gene - Can't argue with Mobil 1 availability. Doesn't seem like anyone has much advantage in pricing on the synthetics but the Mobil 1 is the universally available synthetic. Haven't done the investigation on the Royal Purple but Red Line is in the neighborhood here (still doesn't make it easy to find). They say they have five synthetic ATFs. Synthetic D4 ATF, Synthetic ATF, Synthetic High Temp ATF, Synthetic Racing ATF, and Synthetic C+ ATF. They also have a MTL which is a synthetic manual transmission lubricant that they recommend in some applications. I have use the ATF and the MTL with pretty good results. The MTL is wonderful for smoothing out finicky manual boxes. The Lexus manual says we use T4 ATF. I assume the T4 is Toyota 4. Have to see about calling or e-mailing Red Line to figure out there compatibility. My guess would be that the Synthetic D4 ATF which complies with Dexron III, Dexron II, and the yet to be released new Mercon spec will be the one to use but need to check with Red Line. The site is http://www.redlineoil.com.

I also need to post in the TRD rotor section about the Lexus speed sensor. The Lexus manuals are frustratingly complex and not well laid out. While studying the manual a little more, I do need to get a life, it ends up that they have a serrated rotor on the axle separate from the brake rotor whose sole purpose in life is generating the wheel speed signal. There is nothing on the brake rotor that is involved in the signal generation for the ABS or anything else. Makes me feel better about maybe getting the TRD rotors although I figure the stockers will warp and Lexus gets to buy me a set under warranty. How about that for cynicism.

Still a fan of synthetics, just can't get away from the better thermal stability. I see Red Line even makes synthetic power steering fluid. Not sure if that is **** retentive or not.