sahtt

I know a lot of you guys have had your starters replaced. If these problems/symptoms relate or differ from yours, please speak up.

Situation: The car usually starts up within 1.5-2 seconds of cranking. It turns over and runs like a watch. Just had the timing belt, WP, all seals, etc. replaced [by yours truly].

One out of 10 starts, so far only whenever the car is not completely cold or has been driven in the last 2 or 3 hours, will either crank for 8-10 seconds [slowly increasing in speed towards actually starting] and then start, or just keep cranking until I stop trying. Today it didn't start after cranking it for 10 seconds 3 times. Right before I called the two truck I tried one last time for ******ts and giggles and it started immediately.

The car is a 91 LS with 133k, battery cables are ok, cold fuel injector replaced a couple years back, no other issues.

Before I rip open my only car, could this be a fuel/fuel pressure regulator issue? I cannot find information on it nor where it is even located. I am mechanically inclined, but only have basic tools, such as the ones need for the TB/WP job, no torch or anything powered. I guess I'd have to go by the factory service manual, there goes another 100 bucks.

If I were to replace the starter/starter contacts and still have this issue, I would probably get very, very, very angry

Thanks for any help and or suggestions, this is a major decision for me.

JLAM

iTrader: (1)

i have the starter problem on my gs4...basically it just clicks. It does not crank at all....all you hear is "click".

VVT-i

Next time when your car don't want to start( just crank) turn the key on and see that the check light is still there. I saw some of the 1st gen LS lost signal from the engine ECM caused the car not to start Or do a basic code reading by using jumper wires jump E and Te at the OBD connector on the left side of the intake manifold.

sahtt

I had an older honda that had its starter go out, and it also just did the clicking, that's why this is a bit frustrating.

VVT-I, is this a purely electrical problem or perhaps a loose sensor?

I want to get the problem solved before I attempt to drive the car around to save myself a tow.

VVT-i

It's really hard to say,but base from my experience it's electrical problem. This problem can/or either a bad ECM, a bad fuel pump ecu or a bad coil pack. Make sure you do a basic check out such as check all the connectors around the engine area. You'd stated that you did a water pump yourself, you may need to look at the cam senser wire that run in front of the timing cover or the crank sensor down below. Make sure all those wires not rubbign against the drive belt or pinch.

sahtt

They are certainly worth taking a look at. Is there a procedure for testing them, such as ohm readings to go by?

The issues started before I did the WP/TB job. I'll still double check all the connectors but considering how smooth the car runs once it is started, I'm not too hopeful.

GRAND_LS 4

iTrader: (2)

Dont waste your time with the starter, if it were your starter, it wouldnt crank just a SINGLE click. (Believe me, i just replaced my starter myself).

So as long as you hear it turning, its not it. However, I would get this fixed ASAP so you dont wear out your starter, which is the worse, longest, and most painful job ever. (esp on first gens).

sahtt

I think along the exact same lines as I sit there cranking it excessively, but what am I supposed to to? It does it randomly and I seriously doubt a shop knows more about it than I do at this point. They would probably just pick some large job and bill me for my mortage, hoping it improves the situation.

I don't think it is the fuel pressure regulator because the car should act funny while driving, but it drives silk smooth once it finally starts, idles perfect as well.

If it is electrical, I'm still lost as to what to do concretely. Electrical components, besides guage cluster and audio stuff, is my 'kriptonite' when it comes to working on cars. I'll probably never own another benz because of this.

sonyman

My only suggestion is to take it to a knowledgeable shop that charges a flat diagnostic rate. When I had a similar situation as yours (a problem with no clear solution), I took my car to my local Lexus dealer and had their best technician look at the car. This way, you can also get a loaner vehicle while yours is in the shop, and that they can keep the car long enough for it to exhibit the problem. They'll also have factory Lexus diagnostic tools if you take it to the dealership, although some independent shops do as well.

Scott

sahtt

I took the car to Bearden Automotive here in Austin. It turns out that, supposedly, the crank angle sensor [I think it was that one] was wired improperly and was resting on the engine, so when the car was warm, it would short out because it was too hot. This makes sense considering 90% of the time this only happened when the car was warm, but those couple times it was cold make me a little concerned.

The questionable part is that the sensor is 'under a bracket' that is a good amount of work to take off/on, about 160.00 worth, supposedly*. I went ahead and told them to do it since I need the car to be working 100% by monday. Where is this sensor located exactly? I was out 50 bucks for the diagnostics anyhow, so it was 'only' an additional 100 bucks. Anyhow, after this all I'll need to do is fix the driver's side door lock so the alarm doesn't go off everytime I try to unlock it with a key and the car will be in great shape.

VVT-i

This is the sensor I was asking in the earier post. The crank sensor is located just behind the crankshaft pulley( below the ac compressor). The wire for the sensor runs behind the ac compressor bracket. Most of the time people pinch it when do the water pump or timing belt.

sahtt

Good, hopefully that will resolve the problem then. The only odd thing is it began to do this before I tore it open for the WP/TB job. I know for a fact the wp/tb had not been replaced, but I think I know which bracket you are refering too. The bracket for the alternator is a huge PITA to get to fit right, I had to do it a few times, I think due to the tranny cooler lines, I don't remember exactly. Thanks for the help.

sahtt

The problem was not resolved or even helped. The car has still been taking just as long to start but not completely failed to start til today. I think it is also taking slightly longer when cold as well. Ironically enough, after leaving the shop my brother's car was being looked over at, the car wouldn't start. Just crank. I had to wait 30 minutes with a bag of ice on the motor and eventually on my 4th try after 4 seconds it finally turned over. A tech came and looked at it and gave me some advice about hitting the crank sensor with a long stick as that's what he always used to do on 86 La'sabre's. I thanked him for his advice.

There has to be more I can check. 166 down the drain at the last shop who put some electrical tape on some wiring and said it was 'fixed'.

I .looked under the car specifically today to analyze what VVT-I was talking about. I see the sensor that connects behind the crank pulley, obviously crank position sensor unless I am a moron, and the wiring that leads 'up'. Can someone enlighten me as to exactly where this thing is supposed to run? The engine was too hot to get a good look, but it definetly weaves in out of some parts.

Is there a link where I could check all the grounds? It has got to be something electrical for the car to run as good as it does once it is started.

Thanks again guys..