RA40

iTrader: (6)

The cleaners didn't do much for my past cars so I don't give them a thought. Check the plugs periodically...if they are fouling, it is likely caused by something else. Ignition wire fault, oil getting past the rings, injector going bad, clogged/restrictive air filter...blah-blah.

flipside909

No offense but this is where I see the mistake. You said you had a "serious carbon deposit problem". Yes Techron is a fuel additive that does it's job but if you really had a serious build up problem, shouldn't you have brought it to a mechanic or use a more specific cleaner? Chevron offers other fuel additives including a specific fuel system "Clean Up", "Fuel Injector Cleaner" and of course the regular Techron additive. It shouldn't be the Techron fuel additive to blame since Techron is a detergent additive already put into Chevron gasolines. Now in the case you don't use Chevron branded fuel, Techron additive is there to supplement non-Chevron gas to help or prevent w/simple issues. But since your problem was major, I find it hard to blame Techron for not doing it's job. It's like asking a doctor to give you advice on over the counter medicine to cure you of an illness when you really needed perscription strength in the first place. Hope you understand my analogy. I'm not affiliated w/Chevron in anyway, but it's worked for me. I've heard great things about Berryman's B12 Chemtool Fuel System Cleaner from other people as well.

To use my experience, I don't have carbon deposit problems since I use Chevron gasoline on a regular basis now. On my 1990 Toyota Corolla in the past, I used the cheapest gas you could find, usually Arco or whatever was cheapest for the longest time. After a while, even using 92 (back in the 90s), my pinging problems were still evident. I also tried the Chevron "Clean Up" product...it worked for a while then it eventually returned. So finally I took it to my mechanic and told me the Corolla had heavy carbon build up despite the fact the car was regularly maintained and recently tuned up. The solution was to do a full machine engine flush (Bilstein RU2000) system. Most people don't believe in this but it actually works. After doing this, I was able to use 87 octane again for my 4A-FE 1.6L 16 Valve 4cyl w/no pinging problems. Since that time up to the time I sold the car, the car ran excellent using Chevron 87 and no pinging problems at all.

JellyBean

To it's credit, Chevron doesn't claim that Techron *WILL* benefit anything:

"If I already use Chevron gasoline, do I still need Techron® Concentrate? If you regularly use a high-quality gasoline such as Chevron, you probably don't need Techron® Concentrate. However, should you occasionally use a product other than a high quality gasoline, you may need Techron® Concentrate to clean up deposits that can build up over time. In addition, if you have an engine that is sensitive to deposit formation, or if your vehicle is regularly used under severe conditions, you may also benefit from using Techron® Concentrate."

Source: www.chevron.ca. Underlining provided by JellyBean.

A critical reader will note the abundance of weasel words like the ones that I underlined. Needless to say, I don't use the stuff.

JB

flipside909

Techron Fuel Additive:
http://www.chevron.com/prodserv/nafl...t/fueladd.shtm

ProGard Line:
http://www.chevron.com/products/prod...t/fueladd.shtm

HarrierAWD

FWIW, there was nothing mechanically wrong with the engine. The carbon deposit problem was caused by using premium fuel* - such as Chevron's & Amoco's. Goes to show that Techron in Chevron's premium gas didn't do jack - it didn't even clean after itself. Buying bottles of Techron didn't help, either.

After I cleaned the engine with Chemtool, I switched back to regular immediately and never used premium gas again. It hasn't had carbon deposit or knocking problem since. For the same reason, I only use 87 in my RX300 - never a problem and gas mileage is great.

* Technical stuff - when an engine tuned for regular is given premium gas, the premium gas does not burn completely because higher octane fuel resist burning more than regular gas. Therefore there's incomplete burn and leaves behind carbon deposit. Over time, these deposits accumulate on the pistons and back of the exhaust valves. The deposit on pistons decreases combustion chamber size, and the deposit remains hot, which caused knocking or premature detonation. The deposit on the back of the exhaust valves caused compression problem later on. Of course, when I pumped premium gas into my last car, I didn't know these.

flipside909

Well luckily I wasn't one of those who fell into the Premium is better mentality. Most people think they get better performance for their regular unleaded requirement engines because it costs more. I agree w/you on the usage of 87 on 1MZ-FE powered engines. I had two of them, a 95 Avalon and still have a 99 Solara SE V6 Manual. I get far better mileage w/87 and even better w/86 in higher elevations with those cars. I can't say the same for my 2JZ-GE IS300 though. It needs 91 (actually more in my opinion to cease the occassional ping). My Chevron experience is different. I use it all the time and have yet to see a problem with the 105,000 miles I put on the avalon before it was sold, the 97k on the Solara, and the 56400 miles I have on my 21 month old 2004 IS300.

RA40

iTrader: (6)

If you have a clogged injector due to some solid particulate that passes through the filter and lodges in the nozzle, no amount of cleaner will fix that. A poor ignition spark that does not burn off all the chemical additives so it leaves deposits on the combustion chamber, plug, valve...it compounds over time.

It doesn't take much to pull a plug out and inspect it. If the exhaust tip and bumper have black soot, same with a different exhaust smell or seeing smoke. Gas mileage dropping, pinging...all signs to check into. Some drivers are oblivious and don't think of taking the car in till it needs a tow, by then, it's pretty serious.

These cleaners aren't going to magically get Civic mileage with Corvette performance. It will within reason clean minor deposits from the injectors and surrounding surfaces. A well worn engine will not be revived by this stuff. So if putting $6 of this in the tank cures the problem, good. If it doesn't, you likely didn't have any thing wrong or it was more serious that it wouldn't work.

LexFather

I am looking for the threads but I read on 2 other forums, Techron is good stuff. From my recent experience, my Sisters car (1995 929) was taking off sluggish and almost stalling under low speeds with the gas depressed. I told her about the Techron, use it and fill the car up.

She called me 2 days later saying the car was driving like new and the problem was solved.

I don't use them every other fill up like they want to. But I do use a Concentrate twice a year to clean things up. Doesn't hurt.

Lexusfreak

Never heard of premium fuel actually causing deposit problems personally........Harrier, not sure if you have owned your Lexus since it was brand new or not, but if you bought it used, perhaps the previous owner used cheap gasoling & the damage was already done. I get better fuel economy using Sunoco Ultra 94 myself (quite a bit more actually over regular so I see the advantages in the long run as 'regular' gas here has about 150+ PPM of Sulphur vs. less than 30 PPM with 94....not sure what your laws on sulphur content is where you live however). & I use the Techron every 6 months without any complaints just in case there is any slight deposit build up & never a problem.

Lexmex

In Mexico, we now have Techron not Progard (would fill it on half a tank then).

Pemex is pure garbage gas even Premium with too high a sulfur content.

I have tried many cleaners as a result since my RX runs nothing like it does in the states.

The only difference I see in Techron or Progard is that the car runs smoother. Techron is all supposed to clean off valve deposits from what I remember when I was up in Texas.

Restore has a very good injection cleaner that does work. We did a test with an old VW Caribe (Rabbit) and only with Restore did we get feel any improvement (smooth, slightly better MPG).

I have recently experimented with Gas Extreme and a new cleaning additive from Nology and I recommend both of them for improved performance and cleaning injectors.

HarrierAWD

Don't want to sound like a broken record, but I was talking about my last car. My Lexus is bought new. It's nice that you use Techron and never had a problem, but I never used Techron in my Lexus and never a problem, either. Thanks for sharing your experience with Techron.

The point of my post was to show that Techron is useless. And I wasn't the only one who realized this.

Premium gas can cause carbon buildup in engines designed for regular. I've posted the reason and the same info can be found elsewhere.

HarrierAWD

Just realized that I have documented proof that you don't need premium gas or Techron to get great gas mileage..... right in my RX300's computer. It's a 2002 RX300 AWD with 43K miles. Rated 18 city/22 highway by EPA.

I just came back from a trip in Wyoming. Drove 388 miles since last fill-up and the gas mileage is 25.6 MPG. That's going 75 MPH just about the whole way. The gas is 87 octane from a mom-n-pop Philip 66. Like I said in my previous post, I never used Techron in my Lexus. This shows that you don't need premium gas nor Techron to get great gas mileage.

Average is so-so at 21.2 MPG because my Lexus spent a year in NYC stop-n-go traffic.

I challenge Techron RX300 owners to come even close. Take a long drive and show us what you got.

flipside909

Do you ever calculate your mileage other than the trip computer on your RX? The MPG readings and Miles to Empty trip computers are good references but they're just a bit off from hand calculations on our RX330. Plus you live no where close to sea level correct?

HarrierAWD

You need to understand that even the traditional pump method (or "hand calcuation" in your words) is inaccurate because not all gas pumps fill up to the same level every time. And not every gas pump is exactly accurate in measurement (even with no tampering by gas station owners.) The only accurate way is to install a fuel meter on the fuel line, not practical for common people.

I did that several times when I first bought my Lexus. There were variations of course, but always within 5% or so. So I stopped wasting my time.

FWIW, at 25.6 MPG over 388 miles. I should've consumed about 15.1 gallons. The gas warning light was NOT on last night. It usually comes on at around 16 gallons (with 3.8g left.) That shows that the computer not way off. Yes, the thinner air helps, but I had to deal with some mountain terrains as well.

Again, my point is Techron is useless. And that goes with just about anything in the market. If you are using Techron, stop and see if your gas mileage really worsens. You'll be surprised and save some money, too.

Like I said, take a long drive and show us what you got with Techron.

flipside909

Look i'm not trying to argue with you here. I'm being as civil as possible. Technically any method of calculation we use is a clear estimate and it wont be on the dot. But I do usually fill up my tank just after the gas light goes on and use the same gas station, fill up around the evening right before I come home after work and use the same pump. So I fill roughly about the same amount within a certain range every single time consecutively and use the same pump and fill at the same time of day to narrow my margin of error. Gasoline mixtures are varied for higher elevations. Sometimes you see lower octane ratings for higher elevations. Certain stations in certain markets still use oxygenated fuels. I drive roughly 33k miles a year. I see the variation in my mileage when I take short trips and long trips. I average 22-23mpg mixed city/highway traffic 100 mile roundtrips per day. By the time my light turns on I've already logged 320-340 miles when the light comes on. I have a 17.5 gallon tank. I fill w/14-15 gals at each fillup. I have 56,700 miles on my 21 month old IS300 to prove it and about 17,200 on the RX330 which is only 10 months old. The RX roughly sees 23-24 mixed city/highway driving as well. The best mileage i've ever gotten on the RX has been 25.1 mpg in Utah (using Chevron gas 75mph cruise w/a/c on 2 other passengers and luggage). That's including several NorCal trips we make almost every other month. I can even tell when I get bad gas from a Chevron franchise station to Chevron corporate owned station. It's not necessary for me to use Techron additive because I already use Chevron gas that already has techron mixed into it.

Techron is an additive period. It's not there to increase your fuel economy 10 fold or fix problems that were caused by the owner and maintenance habits in the first place. It's not a miracle chemical. I've used Chevron gas consecutively and have the assurance of using techron branded fuel to keep the carbon deposits to a minimum in my engines. Same thing with motor oil, some prefer dino, some prefer synthetic. It's all preference. If it doesn't work for you fine. Chevron fuels have worked for my vehicles over the years. I have many mechanic friends that are Master Lexus & Toyota techs and they use Chevron fuel themselves. Even my service advisor recommends use of Chevron fuels. If I had the time I would take apart all my valve covers and valves and show everyone the minmal carbon build up. Obviously i'm too busy to do that. My mileage has been consistent on my 04 IS300 and 04 RX330 as well as my 99 Solara SE V6 using Chevron fuels. There are others here that have used Techron additive in their engines and they have worked for them and noticed a difference. Everyone's experience is different. Use what you like..and give your opinions on it. If it didn't work for you...fine. If you don't like it, that's your perrogative. Don't bash it and convince the whole world it doesn't work.