Brian S

Well, here it is, 6 o'clock in the morning. I've been tossing and turning the whole night. Why? Because my LS400, with 95,800 miles just blew a head gasket. This is twice in one year for me. In July 2004, my old car (a 94 t-bird) had a failed head gasket, and the engine eventually threw a rod. So I bought my LS400 with the confidence that I likely wouldn't see a problem as major as this any time soon. So here I am, 9 months later, with the same damn problem. This time with a car I just paid 17-some thousand dollars for. I can't believe my luck.

What a week. It all started last Saturday. I pulled my car out of the garage to take some pics (See: https://www.clublexus.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=158218 ). It sits in front of my apartment for a few hours, then I go to leave, and it wouldn't start. See the full story here: https://www.clublexus.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=158277 . It did eventually start, with a little smoke out the rear. But the smoke went away and the car ran fine. Paranoid about another head gasket failure, I religiously checked the oil cap for that dreaded milky color, and it was fine.

So I go about my business, car runs fine, and I write it off as one of those flukes. My car went into the local mechanic last Monday, so I just mentioned this to them so they could take a look if they wanted. I get the timing belt done: https://www.clublexus.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=158448 . Everything goes well, except they put in the wrong plugs and didn't replace the cam seals, neither of which turn out to be a big deal. I leave the auto shop and it sounds and runs fine. Car seems healthy.

Fast forward to yesterday, Thursday, April 14th. My car has been sitting at the stereo shop, getting its tint down. I'm ready to take the car so I start it up and the first thing I see is white smoke out the tailpipe. Unfreakingbeleivable. This time, it doesn't go away. Car sounds solid, but that smoke is consistent. I leave the shop driving it easy. I get out at a stop light and look -- car's still smoking. I drive to my girlfriend''s dorm, get out and check -- still smoking. So I stop the engine, get her, come back out and pop the hood. I turn the oil cap and have a look. And there is the dreaded milky stuff.

One possible good thing I can say is that I don't think the engine ever had a chance to over heat. I never saw a check engine light, so I think the damage to internals will hopefully (I pray!) be minimal.

I thank God for making me not sweat the big stuff. Otherwise, I'd be going ballistic right now. Everything happens for a reason, right?

It just seems odd that a Lexus LS400 has a blown head gasket at 95,800 miles. It seems extremely uncharacteristic for this car. I did search for "head gasket" on the forum and only found a couple threads referencing a failure. I did "head gasket LS400" and came up with nothing. Certainly not scientific, but it does indicate this is not a common problem. I do enjoy the occasional speed streak, but I don't drive it like I stole it either. I just wasn't expecting this for another 50-100,000 miles.

My brother suspected the mechanic could be at fault, citing a possible water pump problem (which was replaced along with the timing belt). But my dad doesn't see how that could lead to the head gasket failing and putting anti-freeze into the oil. I now wonder if my car not starting was related, or simply a fluke. I also wonder if I should trust these same folks to do the head gasket. Unfortunately, I don't have much choice, because there isn't a reputable import shop here, and I don't know that Toyota here would provide much advantage other than empty a few more dollars out of my pocket for the same job.

I'd definitely appreciate some expert consensus on this. My brother (who works in the car biz) is calling the local dealership where he is to see if they know anything. And tomorrow I need to contact my mechanic to let them know what to do with my car that is sitting in front of their shop.

Thanks,

Brian

/Aerostar\

iTrader: (2)

Im sorry man, that really sucks. This is such a rare occurence on Lexuses, especially those 1UZs. I know this probably not what you want to hear but that car must have been ABUSED by the previous owner in order for this to happen. Ask DX3 about it, when his headgasket went out in his SC400, he just opted for an engine from the junkyard and came out on top in the end. Now unlike your father said, it could be something with the water pump, because obviously if the water pump goes out or doesnt work as well, the car may overheat, and tthats when headgaskets go bad

Dx3

iTrader: (13)

Hey man,

As Aerostar said - been there, done that. We share the same 1UZ engine so I know the difficulty in replacing. The water pump is a very probable cause. Check your radiator for hairline cracks - another culprit which is more commonly found on the Acura Legend.

As long as nothing is warped due to overheating it is up to you to decide what to do - replace the engine or replace the HG. The only thing that would lead me toward keeping your engine is that you just spent the money on the TB.

When they have it apart tell them to look at the WP and see if it was working/installed properly.

I ended up replacing my motor because it already had 160k on it, and turned out to save me about $1000 over just replacing the HG.

Good luck and let us know what you come up with,

Jonny

VVT-i

I take the car to the Lexus dealership and let them take a look at it. Make sure you tell them that you got the Water Pump replaced not too long ago before this happened. Who knows, they may cross the coolant hose around the throttle body and connected the it to another port...just my guess.

It's a very reare case for those UZ engine family to has the head gasket failure. I've been Lexus tech for 8 eight years and we've never seen one head gasket problem yet. Even the guy that work for Lexus since 1989 he still never seen one yet.

Brian S

Unfortunately, I don't have a Lexus dealership nearby....

After talking with a Lexus mastertech this morning, he surmised it could have been the shop that changed the timing who is at fault. He said if it wasn't adjusted exactly right, or was even turned in reverse, it would likely have bent the valves. That's when I decided to tow the car away from the shop that originally did the work (it was dropped off there last night by tow truck) and to the Toyota dealership 20 miles away (spent $180 so far in towing). I did this so as to have a more reputable shop (i.e. Toyota) look at the engine and have an unbiased third party in case it is the case that they are negligent.

That said, I have my doubts now that a bent valve is the case. Upon further discussion, mr mastertech said the engine would be running very rough if the valves were bent, and that a bent vale wouldn't let antifreeze into the engine unless it disintegrated completely and tore something else apart. In which case, the engine would barely be running. This is contrary to my experience, where the engine literally sounded and ran fine, yet I have the milky stuff under the oil cap and it was smoking.

So it may not be the valves, and it may not be a headgasket. I really hope and pray it's something simple. Also, the mechanic who did the timing belt said they were aware it is an interference engine and took precaution to set it properly and not turn it in reverse. He also said sometimes condensation can accumulate in the oil when it has been run briefly and infrequently, and did not see milkiness when he checked the dipstick. Of course, he conceded the smoking is cause for concern, but said it may not actually be a headgasket. It is worth noting the Lexus mastertech also mentioned that he had never replaced a headgasket on an LS400, and apparently he was the first Lexus certified tech in the state of South Carolina.

Bottom line is, I won't know until Toyota tears down the engine. It may be nothing; it may be very serious. I would love for it to be something stupid and simple. At this point, apologizing to my mechanic for second guessing his work would be a very nice option if it meant my engine was fine.

Brian

/Aerostar\

iTrader: (2)

I hate to say it man, but with all those symptoms, its not gonna be something simple. A BHG sounds about right, but lets hope for the best. Also, I thought 1UZs (or all Lexus engines for that matter) are NON-interference engines

DetMich1

Nope, not true. The newer Lexus engines with variable valve timing (VVT-i) are in fact inteference engines which can result in serious internal damage to pistons or valve train if their is a timing belt failure or incorrect assembly problem. BTW, my 1992 SC 400 has the same 1-UZ engine with 340,000 miles and no significant mechanical failures.

parula

Brian, good luck, BHG is not nice!

There's been a lot posted about these engines being noninterference or otherwise. This thread https://www.clublexus.com/forums/sho...n-interference indicates the VVT-i is noninterference. There must be a way to resolve this? See Fern's post 9/14/04.

Brian S

I really don't know what "interference" means to be honest with you. I 'm just pretty sure that the mechanic who did the belt and the Lexus tech I spoke to indicated it was an interference engine.

I am curious though, if I had blown my head gasket, wouldn't my car be running rough? Aside from the smoke and milky stuff in the oil, the thing sounded fine. It wasn't running rough at all -- sounded perfectly normal.

Thanks,

Brian

Dx3

iTrader: (13)

Brian,

Bascailly, if you have an interference engine, if the TB breaks it will destroy many of the internal components of the motor. Think of it this way - swinging a chain around in a china shop!!

No, your car would not necessarily be runing rough, but it should be overheating.

Jonny

ArmyofOne

depending on the outside temperature it may not even overheat...

i have seen them just slightly blown to the point where its justa little smoke and mily oil and i have seenthem totally blown to the point where they wont even start.

when your motor is an interference (and it is if it was made after 1998 i believe...if it has VVT-i) and the belt breaks, the Valves stop moving, while the pistons do not. if the valves are in the down poisition when the pistons come back up (and its garunteed one of them will be) the WHAM, the piston smacks the valve. most often timesit means heads come off for rebuilds, but in rare casesm i have seen entire motors blow, valve punches hole in piston, breaking/spinning the rod/rod bearing, therfore the whole engine needs rebuilt.

hence the reason i will never own a car with an interference engine if i can avoid it.

There is another option that causes smoke. Your power steering pump has a vacuum valve on the back of it that goes into the engine. if this valve is bad it will dump power steering fluid into the intake, and create a funny looking goop in you oil. it usually only smokes for a minute when you start it upo, but i have heard of it causeing a problem so bad that it makes the car smoke constantly. the pump is connected to the engine so that it can adjust how much power to give the pump as related to engine speed. i THINK.

Is your pump leaking?

Brian S

My steering pump could be leaking, but I think the stuff in the engine and coming out my tailpipes is anti-freeze. Before all this, the reservoir was full, and now it's somewhat below the 'low' point. So I am fairly certain it's sucking anti-freeze into the engine somehow. I would just love for it to be a scenario other than head gasket or my engine is hosed. Any chance they could have just connected some hose incorrectly when doing the belt replacement? I guess if that was the case, I would have seen it immediately. Perhaps if Toyota gets to it tomorrow, we will find out for sure.

Thanks for the descriptions about interference engines. I better understand now. Makes me wonder, why would they design an engine with such a disastrous outcome in the event of a timing belt failure?

Thanks,

Brian

DetMich1

Brian, just like everything in life, there are trade offs. By accepting the risk of interferrence in the remote possibility of timing belt failure, the designers of the engine gain greater flow through the valve opening and achieve higher compression ratios than would otherwise be possible if they were constrained by non-interferrence parameters. This results in greater horsepower and efficiency. To protect against disaster, they set very conservative reccommendations on timing belt replacement.

Brian S

Got the car back from Toyota today. Guess what's wrong with it?

Absolutely nothing.

That was the conclusion from the mechanic after testing it. He checked compression and said the valves were fine. He think there is no way it could be a head gasket because the car isn't exhibiting any of the traits. It's not sluggish. In fact, he said the car is running far too well for it to be any of these things. I thought the anti-freeze was low and therefore definately being sucked into the engine, but it turns out the car just hadn't warmed up. And the milky stuff in the oil cap? Well, he says it was just condensation, because the dipstick is clean. When he started it up today, it didn't smoke, and it never smoked for him at all.

So, in the end, it looks like the car is probably fine. It looks like all of this was a combination of poorly timed chain of events and my own ignorance about this car and engine mechanicals in general. My clue, had I known, should have been the oil being clean. The culprit in the end is probably the same thing that all of our cars experience. When the car is frequently started and turned off without warming up (which it had been do to being worked on at the auto shop and tint shop), smoke can appear from the tailpipes. I guess it all has to do with condensation and excess gasoline being pumped into the engine.

The only concern is why is continued to smoke for the ten minutes it was driven from the tint shop to my GF's dorm. But it's not doing it now, despite his testing and my driving it today. It sounds fine, and the temperature is in check. So this is about the only thing it could be. It cost me $180 in towing, $120 for car rental, and $175 for Toyota to look at it. But I'm not angry. This was a learning experience, and it could have been a much more expensive one at that.

Brian

Dx3

iTrader: (13)

Glad to hear you got everything sorted out. Even more glad that you don't have a BHG!!

Peace,
Jonny